Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

[Bullet Sponge]

This is why I feel the game needs context sensitive presentation. The announcers simply are unaware of the background of the teams playing.

I'm playing as OC of Idaho. I went into the final game of my schedule at 7-4, with a 5-1 WAC record. The last game of the year is on the road against Nevada, who is ranked #22, 8-3, and also 5-1 in the WAC. The winner wins the conference outright. This is a huge game for these teams.

The announcers say something like "Looks like we might get another good contest in the WAC". No mention of how important the game is. No mention of the "cinderalla season" I'm having or my massive underdog status blah blah.

The game ends and I win 27-10 in a huge upset and what has to easily be the biggest win in Idaho's history. Heck even I was stunned I won it, since every time I played a decent team I got plastered.

"So for Idaho, their record goes to an impressive 8-4".

That's it. Ho hum. Combine that with the utterly bizarre and generic comments Herbstreit makes (things like "this guy's been working all week on his accuracy" or whatever). Just totally random stuff. Can't the game at least look at the fact that maybe a player had a bad game last week and say something like "He's trying to bounce back from a rough outing last week where he was held to 20 yards" etc.

This sort of thing would go miles toward really immersing you. I want a pregame/halftime/postgame analysis that is based off real info, in game commentary that sounds like the guys are actually watching the game.

The gametrack stuff is a step in the right direction but a baby step.

[Matt10]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

You're right, I've been saying it every single year (for Madden as well minus this year) - how hard would it be for the developers to just watch a college football game on TV, then just do their best to replicate. Soak in the feel of the game, the atmosphere, the commentary - the shouting commentary - the possible upset, the surprise stand out player. etc.

Seriously, how hard is it? Is it THAT hard to create overlays or commentary that build up presentation for the moment? Have you ever noticed that each game you watch on TV, each game feels different. There is a pretense - and as the game goes along, the presentation ADJUSTS.

[Bullet Sponge]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

You're right, I've been saying it every single year (for Madden as well minus this year) - how hard would it be for the developers to just watch a college football game on TV, then just do their best to replicate. Soak in the feel of the game, the atmosphere, the commentary - the shouting commentary - the possible upset, the surprise stand out player. etc.

Seriously, how hard is it? Is it THAT hard to create overlays or commentary that build up presentation for the moment? Have you ever noticed that each game you watch on TV, each game feels different. There is a pretense - and as the game goes along, the presentation ADJUSTS.

Exactly. Now on the surface, it might seem like it's a pipe dream. How can an AI capture the endless dynamic variations of real college football?

But it's not as hard as all that. If you watch any college football game there are certain themes that are repeated over and over. As you pointed out things like the standout players, an upset in the making, a team's winning streak, the history of the teams against each other, how the game will affect conference standings, etc etc.

There could be 100 different things the context sensitive analysis could check for. But they are all quantifiable things you could draw from the stats, which the game carefully keeps throughout a dynasty.

In the end these things are the TEMPLATE for the commentary, but what makes college football so dynamic is the data plugged into that template. How that data is processed and presented makes for limitless combinations of drama in the game. It's utterly doable.

[PowerofRed25]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

I have had commentator sounds at 0 for the last two years for this reason precisely. Not only is it just incredibly dull listening to basic canned commentary in otherwise exciting and intense circumstances, but it started taking away from the game because I'd just be focused on the idiotic commentary.

I get that you can't have commentary for every situation in the game, it isn't feasible and if given a choice between working on that and working on atmosphere elsewhere in the game, I'd look elsewhere. However, commentary has not improved one bit for as long as I can remember. I wouldn't even be opposed to a "generic" crew if the voice actors doing the roles could fully commit and could spend the full cycle getting so many variations to these situations.

All that said, I want them to work on two other "atmosphere" related things first:

1) Interactive/reactive crowd noise. Louder as a big play develops, oohs and aahs after a big hit, boos after a few 3 and outs to downright chaos in places like Penn State or Florida, especially for big rivalry games. I mean flat out pandemonium in these places. Ditch the "home field advantage" of forgetting WR buttons and just have the visitor QB's world rocked.

2) Interactive/reactive sideline. Look at the sidelines in any college game, in addition to the players, coaches, staff, game crew, you have boat loads of media and VIPs, cheerleaders and mascots and they are on top of the field just about everywhere. I've been on the sidelines for games, it is packed with everyone standing right off that white line.

During the game, you should see people roaming the sidelines, the 'get-back' coach shoo'ing guys off the white line, players waving towels or putting helmets in the air, guys jumping up and down after a huge hit or guys running with a player or motioning him onward as he runs by on a huge play. If there is a big hit out of bounds or a guy running out of bounds, the players over there should grab him to hold him up or jump out of the way.

The bigger the game/schools, the more loaded the sidelines. For a San Diego State/North Texas game, it should be fairly empty but a Florida/Florida State game or National Title should be LOADED with people. I mean, the entire stadium should be on top of the guys on the field. You don't get that feel at all in NCAA12, everything is so distant. In most stadiums, the crowd and the sidelines are right on top of you on the field, it can be suffocating for road players, especially those not used to the big time (like when a Troy visits Nebraska).

Those two things are much more important than new commentary, although they all go hand in hand. It cannot possibly be that difficult to implement these things. But then again, you wouldn't think it was that difficult for all the features to work when the game is released.

[Bullet Sponge]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

I have had commentator sounds at 0 for the last two years for this reason precisely. Not only is it just incredibly dull listening to basic canned commentary in otherwise exciting and intense circumstances, but it started taking away from the game because I'd just be focused on the idiotic commentary.

I get that you can't have commentary for every situation in the game, it isn't feasible and if given a choice between working on that and working on atmosphere elsewhere in the game, I'd look elsewhere. However, commentary has not improved one bit for as long as I can remember. I wouldn't even be opposed to a "generic" crew if the voice actors doing the roles could fully commit and could spend the full cycle getting so many variations to these situations.

All that said, I want them to work on two other "atmosphere" related things first:

1) Interactive/reactive crowd noise. Louder as a big play develops, oohs and aahs after a big hit, boos after a few 3 and outs to downright chaos in places like Penn State or Florida, especially for big rivalry games. I mean flat out pandemonium in these places. Ditch the "home field advantage" of forgetting WR buttons and just have the visitor QB's world rocked.

2) Interactive/reactive sideline. Look at the sidelines in any college game, in addition to the players, coaches, staff, game crew, you have boat loads of media and VIPs, cheerleaders and mascots and they are on top of the field just about everywhere. I've been on the sidelines for games, it is packed with everyone standing right off that white line.

During the game, you should see people roaming the sidelines, the 'get-back' coach shoo'ing guys off the white line, players waving towels or putting helmets in the air, guys jumping up and down after a huge hit or guys running with a player or motioning him onward as he runs by on a huge play. If there is a big hit out of bounds or a guy running out of bounds, the players over there should grab him to hold him up or jump out of the way.

The bigger the game/schools, the more loaded the sidelines. For a San Diego State/North Texas game, it should be fairly empty but a Florida/Florida State game or National Title should be LOADED with people. I mean, the entire stadium should be on top of the guys on the field. You don't get that feel at all in NCAA12, everything is so distant. In most stadiums, the crowd and the sidelines are right on top of you on the field, it can be suffocating for road players, especially those not used to the big time (like when a Troy visits Nebraska).

Those two things are much more important than new commentary, although they all go hand in hand. It cannot possibly be that difficult to implement these things. But then again, you wouldn't think it was that difficult for all the features to work when the game is released.

I think the main problem with #2 is simply processing power. You've already got 22 hi-res guys running around the field smoothly animated. The reason the sideline/crowd people look so basic is because that's all the spare processing power there is to animate. I just doubt there is enough power left to add more people and have them roaming the sidelines etc. Heck we don't even have a chain gang.

I agree that "more" commentary isn't what is needed. More of the same canned stuff will get stale just like what we have now. But context sensitive commentary that actually analyzed and makes intelligent commentary about the game based on the data at hand would be a total game changer. You would feel like you were part of something real.

[boomersooner31]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

Commentary has changed minimially since I start buying the series in 2001. Seriously, Herby and Nessler (Herby especially) barely do anything else in the off season...bring them in for a couple of days to the studio and have them re-write the commentary and re-do it. I want emotion, backstory and something new.

Also, the bands need to change. They still sound the exact same. All sound too studio and not authentic.

[fldash]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

First thing I do on NCAA is disable commentary and crank up on the field sounds...

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

Honeslty.......if it wasn't for GameTracks showing them in between quarters, I forget that the band is actually there.

Far as people moving on the sidelines, it isn't processing power that is the problem. Considering NBA 2K11 had coaches walking up and down the sidelines, mascots dancing up and down the sideline behind the baskets, fans waving and all that. So therefore it can be done.

Commentary sounds bad because the 2 commentators aren't there together. They record alone on seperate days and one of the developers just piece it together. This was shown on their own making of NCAA 12 tv show.

Those guys need to be sitting in the studio at the same time, saying lines together, that way it would sound more natural flowing.

As it stands now, like it has always been for this series, it feels and sound canned. There is no hype for rivarly games, small schools having an outstanding season, freshmen or non all american players having a break out year, no hype for bowl games or even the championship game.

All the games sound the same in the same tone. And what really gets me is when they make blatant mistakes. For example:

Saying the ball went into the end zone, it is a touch back, when clearly the ball went out at the 7 yard line and the players are currently lining up at the 7 yard line before he even starts talking.

Or they will be talking about a star player that has been out since week 1 and it is now week 8. Why in the world would a team have to worry about a player that has been knocked out of the season since week 1 ?

Or how about my FB who was having a break out year, 800 yards rushing, 300 receiving, 16 TDs, he didn't even get talked about at all.

They need to be more aware of the season stats and what is actually going on.

[Tecmo Bowl]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

COuld not agree more that NCAA and madden both need this badly. In fact it probably needs to happen next year as that is when the commentary upgrades are slated. Anything short of knowing playoff implications, yearlong stat performances, and all around feel is a huge disappointment and failure.

[Playmakers]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

First thing I do on NCAA is disable commentary and crank up on the field sounds...

That's the only way i've played for the last 3 years

Turn off annoucing crank up the on Field Volume, Custom sounds, Stadium PA and Crowd Sliders to 100

It'll be just like watching the game at a stadium where you only hear the PA guy and the crowd/stadium during the game.

I always use SEC or AuburnAlumni's stadium sounds for as many teams as possible and the game sounds incredible once you spend some time getting all of that stuff sorted out for each school into the game

[Dr Death]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

COuld not agree more that NCAA and madden both need this badly. In fact it probably needs to happen next year as that is when the commentary upgrades are slated. Anything short of knowing playoff implications, yearlong stat performances, and all around feel is a huge disappointment and failure.

I may get criticized for this, but taking out Corso was a death knell. At least w/ him in the booth you had some funny stuff to make you laugh whilst hearing the same old boring crap.

The entire commentary needs to be improved drastically and... they go all in for pre-game presentation, yet at the end of the game the game just ends. There's no excitement for an upset, talk of a rivalry game, guys commenting on some great 21 point comeback... NOTHING.

The game just ends and it's like... really? I had a rivalry game that was close... I was down 13-17... then the other team busted out for two scores to go up 31-13. I then out-scored them 22-3 in the 4th quarter and won w/ :22 left, 35-34... and there was nothing.

It was dramatic and amazing... and yet the commentary was just... blah. Such a shame.

[Dmarzio]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

I've wondered if they couldn't just buy the rights to some CBS or ABC broadcasts of actual games, and literally cut some of the commentator audio out of several broadcasts to gather a good base of quality phrases and comments. Obviously they couldn't use the ones that mention specific player's names, and there would be some issues of getting everything to flow correctly, but you could have potentially thousands and thousands of words already recorded and you wouldn't have to put anyone in a sound booth for hours.

I wonder if its actually feasible.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

It would be just easier and cheaper for them to record the guys talking in studio themselves. But they must have them together at the same time. All this one guy come this week and the other guy come weeks later to record his lines by himself stuff needs to stop.

[jwilphl]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

The in-game broadcast presentation is dreadful and always has been, really. At this stage, it is probably the weakest part of the NCAA game, although gameplay still needs a good amount of improvement, as well.

That said, this sort of dynamic and contextual commentary would do wonders. Another immersion-killer is the exact same camera angles/cuts/scenes that appear game after game, cuts that have been around for years now. There needs to be a LOT more variety in both the visual and audio department.

I think a larger problem this year is crowd noise, as well. Even without commentary, the game sounds flat. This was supposedly fixed this year, but it definitely was not. The crowd is extremely quiet. In my RTG at PSU with 111,000 fans, you would think on the field it would be pretty dang loud. Well it isn't. In fact it only sounds marginally louder than my high school games, which is just sad.

These are issues that need to be addressed--audio, visual, et cetera. Perhaps the guys currently doing it need to be moved because honestly, it is somewhat sad that this many years in things have not changed a whole lot.

[PowerofRed25]

Re: Here's where presentation just destroys immersion...

Let me ask you guys this. If given the following two choices, which would you go with:

1) Keeping the "official" ABC/ESPN guys (Herby or whoever else) who come in individually and record the same lines we've heard for years now, maybe with some slight improvements in terms of context specific situations (big games, big time players, rivalries, etc). Not really a significant improvement, but gives a more authentic ESPN/ABC feel when it is the voices we hear every Saturday.

OR

2) Anonymous voice actors come in, maybe has many as 3, 4 or 5 pairs of guys and take on fictional commentator roles ("Hello there I'm Joe Smith alongside Tom Johnson") but can dedicate the entire development cycle to recording very specific lines, a ton of context, with passion and excitement to create a true, authentic "TV" experience. If there were multiple pairs, you could have a "lesser" pair doing the 11am Saturday game or a Friday night game (think the crew that does the 11am ESPN2 Big Ten game). And then you could have the "big time" crew doing the 8pm national broadcast game. With 2 or 3 crews in between doing games that would traditionally be 2:30 games or regional telecasts.

Personally, I would love 2 more than anything. As it stands now, I put commentators to 0 because it hasn't improved a bit for nearly a decade (in fact, it has probably gotten worse with no Corso) and it detracts from the game. So I get stadium sounds set up, get field and crowd noise louder and it works well for me. If there was vastly improved commentary, even if it was from general voice actors, I'd be much more interested in listening to that.