Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Griffin also came from the wide side of the field and had to cover a greater distance. You still think that Finley is faster than Driver?

Where did I say he was? I just don't think there's much difference between Finley and Quarless like you do. According to you, Finley is only good for jump balls. That's where I thinking your smoking stuff.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

When did I say that Quarless is WAY beyond Finley? I just said he is the faster of the two TEs. I didn't say he was 10 points ahead or anything. I think you are trying to imply something that I did not say.

You kept saying that Finley is ONLY good for jump balls while praising Quarless. And a difference of 77 and 82 is saying it. I strongly disagree. So, I'm not even fighting you on who is actually faster. Just how much.

What further exemplifies my point is that Finley is coming off of major knee surgery as well. How on earth can you give a guy 86 speed with above average speed for a TE and a severe injury history? That makes no sense.

Oh, so you timed this training camp (after his surgery)? How would you know he lost so much speed due to injury?

I am also saying that Finley is the more agile of the 2 TEs. Finley is a better route runner and is better after the catch. He is more polished and is the better player, even when injured. But what Finley is not compared to Quarless if faster.

And I'm saying that I don't think there is nearly as much difference in speed as you think, and that I'm not even sure which one is faster. I'm not even fighting you on which one is faster, just how much faster.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Where did I say he was? I just don't think there's much difference between Finley and Quarless like you do. According to you, Finley is only good for jump balls. That's where I thinking your smoking stuff.

I never said that was the only thing he was good at. Otherwise I would have his speed at 12 and JMP at 99. I just said GB tends to use him split out wide in the red zone for jump balls over CBs. Find where I said the words "ONLY GOOD FOR JUMP BALLS" please. I wasn't saying that you said he was slower than Driver. I was asking you a question.

[tebowfanai]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Very accurate ratings if you ask me.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

You kept saying that Finley is ONLY good for jump balls while praising Quarless. And a difference of 77 and 82 is saying it. I strongly disagree. So, I'm not even fighting you on who is actually faster. Just how much.

To me, 77 compared to 82 isn't a huge difference. However, there is a HUGE difference between how EA has him and where I think he should be. That is almost double the difference I recommend.

Oh, so you timed this training camp (after his surgery)? How would you know he lost so much speed due to injury?

I am merely suggesting that most players who have serious knee surgeries lose on the average of about .05s off of their in-game 40 per season. That's all. And yes, I do have access to data to back that up per the in-game 40 time data. See that thread for more info.

And I'm saying that I don't think there is nearly as much difference in speed as you think, and that I'm not even sure which one is faster. I'm not even fighting you on which one is faster, just how much faster.

Completely fine. I have no issue with that. But please tell me where I said he is ONLY good for jump balls.

[aceoye]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Well and that is why I used some of the SPD ratings from the in-game 40 project run by a colleague. And even then, one can see that Finley wasn't the fastest TE out there.

Im talking about in-game an actual nfl football game..I dont think theres a accurate way to record someones speed in game as you will have to take into account how much equipment they are wearing, what routes they ran,grass/weather conditions and etc.. so in trying to get someones speed from that you can only go by what you see..In which finley>quarless..when finley starts for green bay you see more finley action compared to when quarless starts.. Its not like hes way faster than quarless so the better player equals more speed is irrelevant...what Im getting at is that finleys 86 is understandable to quarless which you rarely see quarless do much on the field its hard to make him faster than jermichael when you barely see anything..I dont agree with donald driver being slower though..

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Completely fine. I have no issue with that. But please tell me where I said he is ONLY good for jump balls.

Watch this from 2009. Rarely do you see him run away from anyone. In fact, at the 1:35 mark he gets caught from behind by Jared Allen.

Since your argument is Quarless is so much faster than Finley. Implying Quarless would not have been tackled by Allen.

Allen still ran him down regardless of what Finley was doing. On that same play, he was still caught by the back end of the defense. There were not any plays where he outran a CB or S.

Since your argument is Quarless is so much faster than Finley. Implying Quarless would not have been tackled by Allen.

Finley had several chances to outrun the D in that video I provided. How many times did you see him outrun the D for a TD? Not many.
As for Quarless I can think of 3 in particular.

Implying that Quarless can outrun DB's and S's while Finley can't.


And here is the kicker..........

He's not a bad runner. He's pretty agile, but he doesn't separate from anyone. More of a let him run and just chuck it up to outjump a smaller CB kind of player. Not fast by any means.

You said it here.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Im talking about in-game an actual nfl football game..I dont think theres a accurate way to record someones speed in game as you will have to take into account how much equipment they are wearing, what routes they ran,grass/weather conditions and etc.. so in trying to get someones speed from that you can only go by what you see..In which finley>quarless..when finley starts for green bay you see more finley action compared to when quarless starts.. Its not like hes way faster than quarless so the better player equals more speed is irrelevant...what Im getting at is that finleys 86 is understandable to quarless which you rarely see quarless do much on the field its hard to make him faster than jermichael when you barely see anything..I dont agree with donald driver being slower though..

My argument, however, is how do you know what attributes to performance? How do you know that it is SPEED that attributes to Finley being the better player? What about Finley's AGI being better? Or being the better route runner? Or reading the defense better? My point is that you cannot simply make a player faster just because he is better. That is what EA does. They make players faster because they play better, when in reality they may be better because they are more technical. When I watch Finley, I see a guy who runs good routes and out muscles anyone for a ball. He has GREAT hands. However, when I see Quarless, I see a fast straight-line runner who has tighter hips. He isn't as agile or as good of a route runner. He has difficulty reading defenses.

Watch this Vid. Who do you think is faster? 45 year old Jerry Rice or this kid at a Nike Combine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fzX30Efvtg

My guess is that the kid is MUCH faster than Jerry at that age, but because Jerry is such a good route runner and knows what he is doing against man coverage he DESTROYS the DB and makes him look like a fool. The kid isn't even in the frame at the end of the route! So in essence, you don't have to be fast to be good.

That is what I think of Finley. He is a tad slower than Quarless, but is much more technically sound. So why make him faster when he truly isn't? That would make as much sense as rating Jerry Rice a 99 in SPD and that poor kid a 79 in SPD when we all know that is probably not true.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Since your argument is Quarless is so much faster than Finley. Implying Quarless would not have been tackled by Allen.



Since your argument is Quarless is so much faster than Finley. Implying Quarless would not have been tackled by Allen.



Implying that Quarless can outrun DB's and S's while Finley can't.


And here is the kicker..........

You said it here.

1. The video referring to where Allen runs him down is not referring to Quarless at all. It is alluding to the fact that Finley is not worthy of an 86 SPD because an 86 SPD guy should not have been caught on that play.

2. I was simply providing examples of where Quarless has had some deeper grabs. Not implying that neither can or can't but just that Quarless is at least as good at getting a big yardage grab of over 20 yards.

3. I never said he was ONLY good at jumping and not at running. I just said that he was BETTER at out leaping a DB than running against a DB one on one and running by him. In fact, I even said that Finley is NOT a bad runner at all. So saying he is "only" good at jumping as you accuse me of saying would completely negate that statement...which is clearly not the case.

[genghisfrog]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

In-game 40s? LOL, yeah that is real accurate. Jesus.

Also, I'm looking at the ratings you have on your website. Are those up to date ratings that your site came up with? I really hope they are from preseason of last year.

Edit. I see rookies from this year on it so I'm assuming it is recent. Just wow at some of the ratings. Sitton an 82? LOL, Shields a 69.LOL, I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously on ratings if you came up with those.

[JJ_Bills9]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Speed has nothing to do with how much separation you can get on a route. That's route running and how well the DB covers the route.

JerMichael Finley isn't fast. This is a fact. Quarless is faster than him. This also a fact. No point debating this because it's true.

Finley should be a mid 70 guy in speed. But frankly players in this game aren't accurately rated in speed across the board. Vernon Davis should be at least 15 points higher than Jermichael based on 40 and based on in-game film. Speed is speed. Please rate it correctly Donny.

[genghisfrog]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Speed has nothing to do with how much separation you can get on a route. That's route running and how well the DB covers the route.

JerMichael Finley isn't fast. This is a fact. Quarless is faster than him. This also a fact. No point debating this because it's true.

Finley should be a mid 70 guy in speed. But frankly players in this game aren't accurately rated in speed across the board. Vernon Davis should be at least 15 points higher than Jermichael based on 40 and based on in-game film. Speed is speed. Please rate it correctly Donny.

I didn't realize 86 speed was fast.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

In-game 40s? LOL, yeah that is real accurate. Jesus.

Also, I'm looking at the ratings you have on your website. Are those up to date ratings that your site came up with? I really hope they are from preseason of last year.

Edit. I see rookies from this year on it so I'm assuming it is recent. Just wow at some of the ratings. Sitton an 82? LOL, Shields a 69.LOL, I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously on ratings if you came up with those.

The in-game 40s is part of a project my colleague at TSX is doing. You can check out the thread here:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-day-data.html

The site is recent. However, if you would read the FBGratings thread, you would understand that the ratings are stretched. 90s are much more elite. Sitton, you can see, is the best rated OL on the team. The ratings system has gotten some rave reviews. It was the feature of an OS radio program earlier this year. Players are rated very differently, but I know of many that have preferred it. I suggest you check it out and understand how players are rated before rushing to judgement :

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ange-game.html

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Speed has nothing to do with how much separation you can get on a route. That's route running and how well the DB covers the route.

JerMichael Finley isn't fast. This is a fact. Quarless is faster than him. This also a fact. No point debating this because it's true.

Finley should be a mid 70 guy in speed. But frankly players in this game aren't accurately rated in speed across the board. Vernon Davis should be at least 15 points higher than Jermichael based on 40 and based on in-game film. Speed is speed. Please rate it correctly Donny.

THANK YOU!!!

[genghisfrog]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

The in-game 40s is part of a project my colleague at TSX is doing. You can check out the thread here:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-day-data.html

The site is recent. However, if you would read the FBGratings thread, you would understand that the ratings are stretched. 90s are much more elite. Sitton, you can see, is the best rated OL on the team. The ratings system has gotten some rave reviews. It was the feature of an OS radio program earlier this year. Players are rated very differently, but I know of many that have preferred it. I suggest you check it out and understand how players are rated before rushing to judgement :

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ange-game.html

You have Brandon Underwood and Jarrett Bush rated higher than Shields. It says all I need to know about your site.