Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

[JJ_Bills9]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

None of this stuff should be an argument. The problem is that EA relies on crappy information to do their ratings and they get things out of whack IMO. Just trying to shed some light on that.

Agreed. This is really the core of the argument. There are certain ratings in this game that the developers have concrete numbers to go off of, and they choose to just come up with stuff off the top of their head. Like speed, and strength, jumping, stuff like that... not hard to figure out since there are numbers you can look at to get very accurate ratings.

Now awareness, throwing accuracy, blocking skills? Those are a bit of a guessing game, but they should be able to be in the ball park to something accurate.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Agreed. This is really the core of the argument. There are certain ratings in this game that the developers have concrete numbers to go off of, and they choose to just come up with stuff off the top of their head. Like speed, and strength, jumping, stuff like that... not hard to figure out since there are numbers you can look at to get very accurate ratings.

Now awareness, throwing accuracy, blocking skills? Those are a bit of a guessing game, but they should be able to be in the ball park to something accurate.

Well if I am able to come up with scouting data for the other ratings, I would think that the guys with the big salaries at EA could.

After all, they are a big multi-million dollar gaming company and I'm just a little baby website owner.

Please...

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

I have Barnett at 86 WITH the injury.

How do you have Sam Shields rated 69 because of injury and then have Barnett rated 86 coming off an injury bad enough to put him on IR. And he's been injured each of the last 3 seasons?

[kunner]

How do you have Sam Shields rated 69 because of injury and then have Barnett rated 86 coming off an injury bad enough to put him on IR. And he's been injured each of the last 3 seasons?

So you have Barnett, who has had 2 season ending injuries in the past 3 years, one a wrist injury and the other a torn up knee, at 86 overall. While Shields, who hurt his shoulder in one game, gets docked into the 60s? really man, you gotta be more consistent with your ratings. Going by your method, Barnett would be an upper 90s LB if he had no injuries.

[kunner]

just wanted to add to my last post, if you dont like the ratings. Change them. There is no law that says you have to play with the ratings out of the box.

[TearsOfPurple]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

My argument, however, is how do you know what attributes to performance? How do you know that it is SPEED that attributes to Finley being the better player? What about Finley's AGI being better? Or being the better route runner? Or reading the defense better? My point is that you cannot simply make a player faster just because he is better. That is what EA does. They make players faster because they play better, when in reality they may be better because they are more technical. When I watch Finley, I see a guy who runs good routes and out muscles anyone for a ball. He has GREAT hands. However, when I see Quarless, I see a fast straight-line runner who has tighter hips. He isn't as agile or as good of a route runner. He has difficulty reading defenses.

Watch this Vid. Who do you think is faster? 45 year old Jerry Rice or this kid at a Nike Combine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fzX30Efvtg

My guess is that the kid is MUCH faster than Jerry at that age, but because Jerry is such a good route runner and knows what he is doing against man coverage he DESTROYS the DB and makes him look like a fool. The kid isn't even in the frame at the end of the route! So in essence, you don't have to be fast to be good.

That is what I think of Finley. He is a tad slower than Quarless, but is much more technically sound. So why make him faster when he truly isn't? That would make as much sense as rating Jerry Rice a 99 in SPD and that poor kid a 79 in SPD when we all know that is probably not true.

This post wins the argument, no idea why it was ignored.

Anyway, BACK ON TOPIC:

I think the Viking's ratings are pretty fair. I do agree with the poster on the first page, Erin Henderson isn't that bad. He's high 60s at worst, low 70s at best.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

So you have Barnett, who has had 2 season ending injuries in the past 3 years, one a wrist injury and the other a torn up knee, at 86 overall. While Shields, who hurt his shoulder in one game, gets docked into the 60s? really man, you gotta be more consistent with your ratings. Going by your method, Barnett would be an upper 90s LB if he had no injuries.

Barnett was a 91 before the injury. Shields was a 71. He also gave up a TD in the Super Bowl to Mike Wallace.

Jarrett Bush had an INT in the big game and was in on the game-ending 4th down play. In fact, he almost picked that one of as well. Bush is a bit more aware and has better tackling skills. Why do you think he also plays FS? Shields still has a lot of learning to do. He was a rookie after all. It's one of those coaching decisions made every day in the NFL. When you go nickle, do you put in the young kid with the high ceiling who hasn't peaked yet, or the 4 year vet who is less athletic but a bit more polished right now? The Packers chose the first option by putting Shields in the entire year. Doesn't mean he was light-years ahead of Bush though. This is something I wish Madden would take into consideration by getting rid of the OVR rating like back in Madden 99. Makes you make tough choices and see who works best for your team and playing/coaching style.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

This post wins the argument, no idea why it was ignored.

The reason most of these posts are ignored is because people can't handle logic, reason, and truth. I try to bring evidence over and over again and it seems I am only met with opinion. How can someone argue with something that makes this much sense.

You would have to be only 1% serious to disagree with something like that...and we have a place for those people. Down the hall, last door on the left...welcome to the one-percent club.

http://imgsrv.1053thefan.com/image/krldf/UserFiles/Image/NewyandRichie/FAN_Richie_1percent_club.jpg

[kunner]

Your quoting what you say as truth, when it reality it is your opinion. If someone's opinion is that your ratings are wrong and Madden's are right, its their opinion. You cant argue someone's opinion. My opinion is that you have people rated lower than they should be, while your opinion is that Madden has them rated higher than they should be. Doesnt make either one of us right. I dont play with the set ratings, i tweak them to how i feel they best represent on the field.

Judging by the preseason game i watched tonight, Graham Harrell and Matt Flynn should have insane accuracy and play recognition ratings, if you go by how they last played in games.

This whole thread is opinion, so im not right, your not right, nobody is right when it comes to the ratings.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Your quoting what you say as truth, when it reality it is your opinion. If someone's opinion is that your ratings are wrong and Madden's are right, its their opinion. You cant argue someone's opinion. My opinion is that you have people rated lower than they should be, while your opinion is that Madden has them rated higher than they should be. Doesnt make either one of us right. I dont play with the set ratings, i tweak them to how i feel they best represent on the field.

Judging by the preseason game i watched tonight, Graham Harrell and Matt Flynn should have insane accuracy and play recognition ratings, if you go by how they last played in games.

This whole thread is opinion, so im not right, your not right, nobody is right when it comes to the ratings.

I was not referring to the OVR ratings. I was referring to the whole SPD vs. Technique issue. I agree that OVR ratings are WIDELY speculative and open to opinion. If they weren't, we wouldn't have these great discussions!

[XtremeDunkz]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Barnett was a 91 before the injury. Shields was a 71. He also gave up a TD in the Super Bowl to Mike Wallace.

Jarrett Bush had an INT in the big game and was in on the game-ending 4th down play. In fact, he almost picked that one of as well. Bush is a bit more aware and has better tackling skills. Why do you think he also plays FS? Shields still has a lot of learning to do. He was a rookie after all. It's one of those coaching decisions made every day in the NFL. When you go nickle, do you put in the young kid with the high ceiling who hasn't peaked yet, or the 4 year vet who is less athletic but a bit more polished right now? The Packers chose the first option by putting Shields in the entire year. Doesn't mean he was light-years ahead of Bush though. This is something I wish Madden would take into consideration by getting rid of the OVR rating like back in Madden 99. Makes you make tough choices and see who works best for your team and playing/coaching style.

Nick Barnett is nowhere near 91 level, even if you take away all the injuries. He has been overrated his whole career. And Jarrett Bush is not nearly as good a player as Shields.

[Faizon]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Realized last two ratings won't be updated till Monday, poor Bucs and Saints fans gotta wait the whole weekend.

Hopefully they throw up all the Free Agents too, I notice the All-Players and All-Teams Tabs.

[genghisfrog]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Barnett was a 91 before the injury. Shields was a 71. He also gave up a TD in the Super Bowl to Mike Wallace.

Jarrett Bush had an INT in the big game and was in on the game-ending 4th down play. In fact, he almost picked that one of as well. Bush is a bit more aware and has better tackling skills. Why do you think he also plays FS? Shields still has a lot of learning to do. He was a rookie after all. It's one of those coaching decisions made every day in the NFL. When you go nickle, do you put in the young kid with the high ceiling who hasn't peaked yet, or the 4 year vet who is less athletic but a bit more polished right now? The Packers chose the first option by putting Shields in the entire year. Doesn't mean he was light-years ahead of Bush though. This is something I wish Madden would take into consideration by getting rid of the OVR rating like back in Madden 99. Makes you make tough choices and see who works best for your team and playing/coaching style.

And you lost all credibility in my mind. You think Bush is better than Shields based on two plays. Wow just wow, I can't even have a conversation with you now because you obviously don't watch the games. You see the highlights and that's it. Go ask 100 out of 100 scouts how good Sam Shields is and I guarantee you almost all of them will say he is light years better than Bush.

P.S. Jarrett Bush had nothing to do with the last play of the game. Tramon broke it up and Jarrett Bush was simply there as the ball hit the ground. He did nothing on the play.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

And you lost all credibility in my mind. You think Bush is better than Shields based on two plays. Wow just wow, I can't even have a conversation with you now because you obviously don't watch the games. You see the highlights and that's it. Go ask 100 out of 100 scouts how good Sam Shields is and I guarantee you almost all of them will say he is light years better than Bush.

P.S. Jarrett Bush had nothing to do with the last play of the game. Tramon broke it up and Jarrett Bush was simply there as the ball hit the ground. He did nothing on the play.

It's not based on two plays. Just two examples. If it was not much more in depth than that, they both would not have been 71 OVRs before that point. Shields played very well as a rookie. But then again, so did Tyrone Williams in 96. I have seen every Packer game since 1995 either in person or on TV. You fail to realize that teams will start players based on particular skill sets over others. Bush came into that season with more experience as I pointed out, and it showed in the Super Bowl. I don't recall him getting torched for a TD in that game.

And BTW, Bush was rated as 71 as a FS, not a CB. Convert that rating to a CB and its probably more like a 65. Shields is a better CB than Bush, yes. But not when Bush is a FS and Shields a CB. You are forgetting that Madden has different OVR rating calculations for different positions.

And yes, I fully understand that Tramon broke the play up, but Bush was also there in coverage, not picking his nose back at the goal line.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Player Ratings - Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings

Nick Barnett is nowhere near 91 level, even if you take away all the injuries. He has been overrated his whole career. And Jarrett Bush is not nearly as good a player as Shields.

Well, that is your opinion on Barnett. The scouting data and interpolation thereof says something different.

Bush was as equal as a FS as Shields was a CB. Bush's OVR rating was calculated based on the rating of a FS, not CB. If you simply change his position in Madden, it drops to around a 65 OVR, making Shields 4-6 points better.