Banning Fighting in NHL

[porky14]

Now if they do this, there will be alot more cheap shots.

[gopher_guy]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

They shouldn't ban fighting, if they do anything they should just make the punishment bigger. Fighting should still be a part of the game, but only when it is needed. Not the way it is now, seemingly just a gimmick to get people excited.

Or maybe, if a guy gets in more than 10 fights a year, you have to pay him more, that would sure get GM's to persuade their players to not fight, and I think it would completely eliminate the enforcer role on the team. If all he can do is fight, you're going to have to pay him more, and I'm sure most GM's would be quick to cut ties with their goons to save $. Why spend money on a guy who's only true NHL level skill is fighting?

Just thinking out loud here...

[slickdtc]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

Those are pretty good rough ideas.

I don't think fighting and cheap shots have ANY correlation anymore. No one answers the bell anymore. The bell should be a suspension handed down from the league, and hopefully with Shanahan in charge there, something, ANYTHING will get done, and get dealt with correctly.

If anything, I wish they'd lean towards more severe punishments instead of going on the lighter end. Something, ANYTHING has to be done because this is getting too crazy. A really good player can't play anymore (Savard), and a top 3 player is still dealing with concussion issues (Crosby). Not to mention the David Perron's of the league who are still having problems due to a concussion.

[Qb]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

More or less related to the discussion... check out this Men's Health interview with former Flyers tough guy and current AHL asst coach Riley Cote. Great read that gets into not only the physical toll, but also the mental aspects of being an enforcer from a guy who retired at 28 for reasons close to the debate.

[slickdtc]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

Very telling interview with Cote.

He touches on if fighting should be banned, then goes on to talk about certain guys like Matt Cooke and Sean Avery who play recklessly but don't answer the bell quite as much as your typical enforcer. Which is happening already, with fighting in place. But he says eliminating fighting would be "complete bull."

Don't understand.

[Qb]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

My take on that Slick was that Cote thinks the "rats" (as he calls them) would only get worse if they knew anyone that tries to fight them would be more severely punished. I can see where he's coming from. Even playing roller hockey there are always some little [bleeps] who will act tough because they know no one can pound on them.

Fighting in hockey is such a layered and complex issue. Honestly, I think the league needs to take a closer look at drug abuse, mental health, and other potential post-career issues among all players -- even if enforcers might be more prone -- rather than a knee-jerk fighting ban under the assumption it will solve any of these problems.

[dickey1331]

For me fighting is apart of hockey and I enjoy it. I'm fine with the way it is. I don't think I would be opposed to a rule change but as long as they don't ban it.


Do you really care where I sent this from?

[SPTO]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

I don't think it should be completely banned but if there are fights then they should kick out the fighters after they've had their go of it.

Maybe that's the happy medium the league should look at doing.

[Vikes1]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

Personally...I think a fighting major should also come with an automatic game misconduct.

[Money99]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

Now if they do this, there will be alot more cheap shots.

Like Cooke's hit on Savard or Tyutin?
Or Lucic's sucker-punch on Myers and cross-check on Moore.
Or Avery acting like a dink everytime he's on the ice?
How about when Carcillo mugged Gaborik?

Fighting has done absolutely NOTHING to stop the cheapshots out there. NOTHING!
The game has never been more dangerous than it is today and there's never been more fighting since the lockout.

If fighting is so important, please answer these questions:

1. Why is there no fighting in World Jr's and Olympics and yet the hockey is spectacular?
2. If fighting is crucial to wins and losses, why don't we see it in the Cup finals? (or hardly at all in the playoffs).
3. If enforcers are so important how come I never see a bevy of them being traded to Cup contenders at the deadline?
4. Why aren't enforcers ever dressed in the playoffs??

Fighting is a gimic to sell tickets. Nothing more.
I've made this point in a previous post but fighting was almost non-existant until the 70's when the WHA brought in nothing but goons to sell tickets.

I don't mind a scrap between two hockey players. Trevor Gillies is not a hockey player.
Colton Orr is not a hockey player. These guys cannot contribute to the game of hockey at all.

And before anyone goes to the standard 'Instigator Rule' bullcrap, do some investigating.
For starters, no goon is worth their salary if they don't want to risk a game-misconduct for defending a downed teammate.
And the NHLPA votes on this rule all the time and it's kept in the game - BY THE PLAYERS.
They want it in there because they know the game will get out of hand if the score is lopsided.
Players were tired of getting punched in the teeth for nothing more than being up 4 goals.
The old adage "if you can't beat 'em on the scoreboard, beat them in the ally" was the reason for this rule.

Goons need to go. I loved that scrap between Datsyuk and Perry. That's a Selke and Rocket Richard trophy winners going at it. Just like the days of Lindsey and Howe.

But the goon and 95% of the fights that occur in the NHL are for show and nothing more.

[Money99]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

My take on that Slick was that Cote thinks the "rats" (as he calls them) would only get worse if they knew anyone that tries to fight them would be more severely punished. I can see where he's coming from. Even playing roller hockey there are always some little [bleeps] who will act tough because they know no one can pound on them.

Fighting in hockey is such a layered and complex issue. Honestly, I think the league needs to take a closer look at drug abuse, mental health, and other potential post-career issues among all players -- even if enforcers might be more prone -- rather than a knee-jerk fighting ban under the assumption it will solve any of these problems.

I hate the 'rat' more than goons. In fact, I think I hate The Rat more than anything in pro sports.
The league needs to get rid of these guys. Goons can't do anything.
Why? Because goons don't fight anyone but heavyweights.
A guy like Cooke should have to fight the Orr's and Scott's every single night. But he doesn't.
And frankly, The Rat doesn't think like a normal human being so I honesty don't think they care if they get beat-up every other game. They're earning millions to play in the best league in the world. A short tussle where you hold on for dear life for 30 seconds is a small price to pay.
So the league needs to enforce strict rules against the tactics The Rat uses.

As far as goons & drugs, etc. More research needs to be done. I'm not sure if a goons personality is more susceptible to drug abuse, or if the job pushes them to it.
But from the multitude of interviews I've heard lately, I have a feeling the job is the one that causes most of it.
Cam Jansen recently said he's in a good place but it's mostly because of the support group he has around him (friends and family). Same with Riley Cote.
Both guys made it sound like you really, really need a grounded core of people nearby in order to keep you from spiraling out of control.
I've never heard a scorer or playmaker say anything like that. None of them have to put up with the pressure of bare-knuckle fighting on a nightly basis.
I've also yet to hear one goon say they loved what they do. All of them have spoken about the extreme anxiety and pressure that comes with the job.

I keep thinking how would I feel if it was my son doing that job. I'd hate it. And I'd hate to think that he needed drugs or alcohol in order to sustain that line of employment.

[DrJones]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

1. Why is there no fighting in World Jr's and Olympics and yet the hockey is spectacular?

I agree with a lot of your points, but not this one. Apples and oranges. If the NHL was contracted to 6-8 teams and seasons were no more than 10-12 games long, I'm guessing the hockey would be pretty spectacular as well.

[Money99]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

I agree with a lot of your points, but not this one. Apples and oranges. If the NHL was contracted to 6-8 teams and seasons were no more than 10-12 games long, I'm guessing the hockey would be pretty spectacular as well.

I hear you and I understand that counter-argument.
But my argument was more to point out that there's no fighting allowed in those tournaments and I don't think the hockey is more dangerous or filled with more cheap-shots.

Of course, like you pointed out, the more players you need the more rats will come in.

But really, if the only argument for goons is to get rid of rat's, then it's a weak one.
Because rat's are running rampant even with goons in the game and most of them are goons themselves.
Carcillo, Avery and Lucic are three of the toughest guys in the league but all three of them can be very dirty.

[SPTO]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

I think the NHL missed out on a huge opportunity when they went through the last wave of new buildings. They should've gone with the Olympic ice size when that was going on. Let's face it, the players today are almost TOO big for the current ice surface and having more room to maneuver would open up the game and hopefully lead to less goonery.

What you all think of that?

[Money99]

Re: Banning Fighting in NHL

I think the NHL missed out on a huge opportunity when they went through the last wave of new buildings. They should've gone with the Olympic ice size when that was going on. Let's face it, the players today are almost TOO big for the current ice surface and having more room to maneuver would open up the game and hopefully lead to less goonery.

What you all think of that?

It's funny that you mention that.
Brad Richards recently spoke about banning all hits to the head and said:

The game is bigger and faster. It's the same size of ice since a long time ago.

I too think the NHL missed a great opportunity to make all rinks Olympic sized once they rebuilt.
It might be too late now.

However, the NHL might be very shortsighted on this issue. They know removing 3 rows of seats means less revenue. But who's to say that by doing so, you'd gain more fans because of the better hockey.

At the very least, lets have a few exhibition games on bigger ice during pre-season.