Operation Sports Forums - View Single Post - ImSkyKid's Guide to the 3-4/4-3 Debacle

imskykid · 09-07-2011, 04:42 PM

As many hardcore football fans know, the way EA handles the differences between 3-4/4-3 defenses in franchise is flawed. I'm not talking about gameplay, where there are certainly some fallacies, but more in the arena of personnel decisions by CPU teams. I will attempt to show you how I make sure front 7 player acquisition is realistic and legitimate and also lay out the direction I think EA should head in the future. (Yes, I have had similar writes ups like this in year's past, but nothing has been addressed despite the community's constant clamoring.)

Remember, this is for offline franchise player acquisition, NOT gameplay.

First off, we need to point out what's wrong.

CPU teams don't consider scheme when acquiring players. They will try to pick up the best player. If Dwight Freeney (6'1" 268lbs) hits free agency and the Steelers (who run a 3-4) has a whole at DE, they will target him to improve their team. This would never happen in real life, unless they had plans to convert him to OLB, a la Mario Williams with the Texans. They sign him, and plug him in to a position (5 technique) where he does not fit and he rides his pass rush career into obscurity. They do not go through the list of free agent DEs and find a prototypical athlete for their scheme (around 6'4" 290+lbs) OR go through the DT list and find the same type of player a move him to DE.

Also, 3-4 teams with a need at OLB pick up whatever OLB they can, regardless of whether or not they fit in the 3-4. Brian Cushing began his career with the Texans as an OLB in a 4-3 defense, but once they switched to a 3-4 he moved inside to MLB. Keith Brooking played OLB for the Falcons, but moved inside when signed by the Cowboys. On the other hand, John Abraham began his career as a 3-4 OLB with the Jets, but was moved to DE when he signed with the Falcons who run a 4-3. Madden does not see a difference. A change in defensive scheme or a player joining a team with a different defense does not result in the appropriate position changes that would take place in the NFL.

The same thing happens in the draft. Teams will take a player who does not fit their scheme just to fill a hole. 6'0" 235lb coverage linebackers will be taken by 3-4 teams and be expected to rush the passer like 6'4" 262lb Demarcus Ware. They will take a 6'5" 295lb DT and expect him to be a Nose Tackle like 6'2" 325lb Vince Wilfork, when he should be moved to DE to play the 5 technique. Aldon Smith is the most recent example of a college DE who was taken in the first round by a 3-4 team and converted to OLB. It happens in the NFL, but not in Madden.

Also, when taking your stud pass rushing DE and moving him to OLB to be the next DWare, you will experience a HUGE ratings drop. Vice versa, if a 4-3 team signs a 78 OVR 3-4 OLB and you convert him to DE, his ratings will jump up into the 90s. Thankfully, EA added the option to edit player's ratings!!! This way you can go in and adjust any huge ratings fluctuations when switching player's positions.

Now that we've highlighted what's wrong, here's how I attempt to make Madden more realistic.

First: You must control all 32 teams As mentioned in Actinguy1's thread, controlling one team and switching in the offseason results in a bug that wont let you adjust team's coaching schemes/priority sliders. In year one, you need to decide whether or not you want the Patriots to run a 4-3 or 3-4. With the current roster, the player's positions reflect what they would be in a 4-3, but their coaching scheme is default to 3-4. You need to either switch their coaching scheme to 4-3 or switch their players around to their 3-4 positions. The latter will be good practice for the future.

In the past, Madden did a horrible job reflecting the scheme teams ran in the NFL. Tampa would be defaulted to 3-4 when they're 4-3 and the Jets would be 4-3 when everyone knows Fat Rex runs a 3-4. This year, besides NE, all the teams are correct. In fact, even their priority sliders are set to the proper position (IE 3-4 teams have their slider on Run Stopping for DE... unfortunately, this plays little to no role in player acquisition).

Right now, there is nothing else you need to do unless you want to monitor each team's injuries and make sure they sign players that fit their scheme. I don't typically do this because, once the season starts, I'm focused on my own team.

Second: Check coaching changes in staffing Some people like to take control of all the coaching changes in the offseason. I just let the CPU fill all vacancies and go check their scheme afterwards. I look for the teams that hired new Head Coaches and see if they have changes defensive schemes.

You have two options: Keep the new coach's scheme and switch all the player's positions, or just change the coach's scheme to match the team's original scheme. I opt to keep the team's original scheme. This cuts down in the amount of players I have to switch position and ratings adjustments. Also, when you play against teams in franchise, they default to whatever playbook they started with. So if the Seahawks sign Mike Tomlin to be their HC and you go in and switch all their players so they fit in a 3-4, when you play against them in a game they will still take the field with their 4-3 playbook. While it's not very realistic that all 32 teams will keep the same scheme for 10-20-30 years, it's even less realistic that they would switch schemes, move and acquire players to fit that scheme, and then not use that scheme in a game.

Third: Complete the offseason however you see fit.

If you want to be meticulous and make every team's moves for them, go ahead. I don't have the time or patience. I take my one team that I care about and go from there. (For tips on how to ensure realistic moves by teams w/o babysitting them see Actinguy1's thread.) Go about your offseason and improve your team.

Fourth: Advance to the preseason and be ready to work

This is where the busy work comes in, but it's not as hard as in year's past. There are a lot of annoyances that come along with the UDFAs and expanded rosters, but when it comes to switching player's positions, it's a godsend. In order to change a player's position you had to have an overage of the required number of players at that position. Thanks to all the new players, you can do this with ease.

What you need to do is go one by one for each team and check their personnel. If the Steelers signed Dwight Freeney, move him to OLB. If the Titans signed Mario Williams, move him back to DE. If the Giants signed Kendall Langford, move him to DT. If the Redskins signed Ernie Sims, move him to ILB (Or release him). Don't forget the draft picks too! Did the Cowboys take a 6'3" 253lb DE? Move him to OLB. Did the Panthers take a 6'5" 305lb DE? Move him to DT. Did the Raiders draft a 6'10" 476lb punter who runs a 4.3? Shake your head and say "Oh, Al!"

Doing this will add realism. Doing this will make sure that, when looking over end of season stats, that 3-4 DEs aren't leading the league in sacks. 4-3 OLBs will be 3-4 MLBs. Dwight Freeney wont have to play the 5 technique!

Fifth: Repeat

Unfortunately, you will have to do this every year. It is tedious, but well worth it for me. One side effect is that you get to become semi-familiar with other team's rosters and aids in the immersion so much of us crave in franchise mode.

...UP NEXT: How EA should approach this issue in the future!

09-07-2011, 04:42 PM	#1
imskykid Rookie OVR: 3 Join Date: Jan 2009	ImSkyKid's Guide to the 3-4/4-3 Debacle As many hardcore football fans know, the way EA handles the differences between 3-4/4-3 defenses in franchise is flawed. I'm not talking about gameplay, where there are certainly some fallacies, but more in the arena of personnel decisions by CPU teams. I will attempt to show you how I make sure front 7 player acquisition is realistic and legitimate and also lay out the direction I think EA should head in the future. (Yes, I have had similar writes ups like this in year's past, but nothing has been addressed despite the community's constant clamoring.) Remember, this is for offline franchise player acquisition, NOT gameplay. First off, we need to point out what's wrong. CPU teams don't consider scheme when acquiring players. They will try to pick up the best player. If Dwight Freeney (6'1" 268lbs) hits free agency and the Steelers (who run a 3-4) has a whole at DE, they will target him to improve their team. This would never happen in real life, unless they had plans to convert him to OLB, a la Mario Williams with the Texans. They sign him, and plug him in to a position (5 technique) where he does not fit and he rides his pass rush career into obscurity. They do not go through the list of free agent DEs and find a prototypical athlete for their scheme (around 6'4" 290+lbs) OR go through the DT list and find the same type of player a move him to DE. Also, 3-4 teams with a need at OLB pick up whatever OLB they can, regardless of whether or not they fit in the 3-4. Brian Cushing began his career with the Texans as an OLB in a 4-3 defense, but once they switched to a 3-4 he moved inside to MLB. Keith Brooking played OLB for the Falcons, but moved inside when signed by the Cowboys. On the other hand, John Abraham began his career as a 3-4 OLB with the Jets, but was moved to DE when he signed with the Falcons who run a 4-3. Madden does not see a difference. A change in defensive scheme or a player joining a team with a different defense does not result in the appropriate position changes that would take place in the NFL. The same thing happens in the draft. Teams will take a player who does not fit their scheme just to fill a hole. 6'0" 235lb coverage linebackers will be taken by 3-4 teams and be expected to rush the passer like 6'4" 262lb Demarcus Ware. They will take a 6'5" 295lb DT and expect him to be a Nose Tackle like 6'2" 325lb Vince Wilfork, when he should be moved to DE to play the 5 technique. Aldon Smith is the most recent example of a college DE who was taken in the first round by a 3-4 team and converted to OLB. It happens in the NFL, but not in Madden. Also, when taking your stud pass rushing DE and moving him to OLB to be the next DWare, you will experience a HUGE ratings drop. Vice versa, if a 4-3 team signs a 78 OVR 3-4 OLB and you convert him to DE, his ratings will jump up into the 90s. Thankfully, EA added the option to edit player's ratings!!! This way you can go in and adjust any huge ratings fluctuations when switching player's positions. Now that we've highlighted what's wrong, here's how I attempt to make Madden more realistic. First: You must control all 32 teams As mentioned in Actinguy1's thread, controlling one team and switching in the offseason results in a bug that wont let you adjust team's coaching schemes/priority sliders. In year one, you need to decide whether or not you want the Patriots to run a 4-3 or 3-4. With the current roster, the player's positions reflect what they would be in a 4-3, but their coaching scheme is default to 3-4. You need to either switch their coaching scheme to 4-3 or switch their players around to their 3-4 positions. The latter will be good practice for the future. In the past, Madden did a horrible job reflecting the scheme teams ran in the NFL. Tampa would be defaulted to 3-4 when they're 4-3 and the Jets would be 4-3 when everyone knows Fat Rex runs a 3-4. This year, besides NE, all the teams are correct. In fact, even their priority sliders are set to the proper position (IE 3-4 teams have their slider on Run Stopping for DE... unfortunately, this plays little to no role in player acquisition). Right now, there is nothing else you need to do unless you want to monitor each team's injuries and make sure they sign players that fit their scheme. I don't typically do this because, once the season starts, I'm focused on my own team. Second: Check coaching changes in staffing Some people like to take control of all the coaching changes in the offseason. I just let the CPU fill all vacancies and go check their scheme afterwards. I look for the teams that hired new Head Coaches and see if they have changes defensive schemes. You have two options: Keep the new coach's scheme and switch all the player's positions, or just change the coach's scheme to match the team's original scheme. I opt to keep the team's original scheme. This cuts down in the amount of players I have to switch position and ratings adjustments. Also, when you play against teams in franchise, they default to whatever playbook they started with. So if the Seahawks sign Mike Tomlin to be their HC and you go in and switch all their players so they fit in a 3-4, when you play against them in a game they will still take the field with their 4-3 playbook. While it's not very realistic that all 32 teams will keep the same scheme for 10-20-30 years, it's even less realistic that they would switch schemes, move and acquire players to fit that scheme, and then not use that scheme in a game. Third: Complete the offseason however you see fit. If you want to be meticulous and make every team's moves for them, go ahead. I don't have the time or patience. I take my one team that I care about and go from there. (For tips on how to ensure realistic moves by teams w/o babysitting them see Actinguy1's thread.) Go about your offseason and improve your team. Fourth: Advance to the preseason and be ready to work This is where the busy work comes in, but it's not as hard as in year's past. There are a lot of annoyances that come along with the UDFAs and expanded rosters, but when it comes to switching player's positions, it's a godsend. In order to change a player's position you had to have an overage of the required number of players at that position. Thanks to all the new players, you can do this with ease. What you need to do is go one by one for each team and check their personnel. If the Steelers signed Dwight Freeney, move him to OLB. If the Titans signed Mario Williams, move him back to DE. If the Giants signed Kendall Langford, move him to DT. If the Redskins signed Ernie Sims, move him to ILB (Or release him). Don't forget the draft picks too! Did the Cowboys take a 6'3" 253lb DE? Move him to OLB. Did the Panthers take a 6'5" 305lb DE? Move him to DT. Did the Raiders draft a 6'10" 476lb punter who runs a 4.3? Shake your head and say "Oh, Al!" Doing this will add realism. Doing this will make sure that, when looking over end of season stats, that 3-4 DEs aren't leading the league in sacks. 4-3 OLBs will be 3-4 MLBs. Dwight Freeney wont have to play the 5 technique! Fifth: Repeat Unfortunately, you will have to do this every year. It is tedious, but well worth it for me. One side effect is that you get to become semi-familiar with other team's rosters and aids in the immersion so much of us crave in franchise mode. ...UP NEXT: How EA should approach this issue in the future!