qb accuracy and differentiation

[michapop9]

I have the same issue every year, this year its a little different in a bad way.

Im sick and tired of putting up 350 passing yards and completing 70 percent of my passes with phillip rivers and then switch to the other team and do the same exact thing with Jason campbell.

"hey it can happen."

-first off, not every single time
-second, even more disturbing, Ive been playing around with all the sliders since aug 30th in different ways combinations etc. The conclusion Ive come to is the sliders and consistency and confidence are the only things that effect qb accuracy. The ratings mean sqwat.

Ive moved the qb accuracy slider all the way down to 0 and back to 100, I will miss as much with Aaron Rodgers with it at 5, which Ive had it on for awhile, as I will with Matt Lienart, over and over and over again, in multiple situations. The only minor difference I see is Rodgers has a little more zip on the pass and Lienart is a lefty.

If you go and take a qb with a rating of 77 accuracy and make his confidence and consistency ratings 4 or 5 stars, he will make just as many throws as an Elite 90's accuracy rated qb, (Ive tried them all).

The problem is there is such a limited amount of places the ball will be thrown in a given situation in this game, its either right on the money (except on lobs because of ball trajectory) or completely off. Theres no in between, no catchable balls that a great wide reciever can adjust on because its poorly thrown that a great qb would hit in stride. Its either hit or miss.

Without clammering for the vision cone I will say (like I do every year) Theres no differentiation for user qbs awareness ratings.

Theres also something called a quick release, or release speed that could be added. The most important position in football is the one thats least diversified and represented in this game. Without more differentiation its just an arcade game and Ive had enough. Dont get me wrong, its a semi fun game and looks beautiful but it doesnt give me my football fix. Theres no reason or need to go out and get that qb because I can win just as easily with a ****ty qb. Its canned, limited, and not representative enough of the differences in user controlled qb's to be addicting. (not to mention with all the slider tweaking the cpu offense is still very mediocre). Its just kind of a shame.

with all the improvements this year, Im still yearning for more, it always seems to fall short.

[docolla]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

I agree it seems like they have been coming up short every year for a while now.

[mrjamierocks]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

i find it amusing that people want their qb to play like their real life counterpart seeing how you are controlling them,most of the their ratings become redundant.
Sure arm strength and foot speed you can take into consideration, but unless you let the cpu control your qb, where's the fun in that , feels coach mode people staring at me your qb will never play like themselves.

[phant030]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

what difficulty settings? Threshold? Gamespeed?

[michapop9]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

what difficulty settings? Threshold? Gamespeed?

USER
qb accuracy-6-8 (have tried them all)

passblock-50

wr catch-55

CPU
pass reaction-100
int-40
passrush-100


GAMESPEED-very fast (have also tried them all)
SPEED THRESHOLD-0

And there are plenty of ways to differentiate user controlled quarterbacks to make it more difficult to play with average to bad quarterbacks, even to differentiate good ones from other good ones or great ones, just read wishlists and message boards. Accuracy is also already rated on the game, it just doesnt show up on throws, so what is the rating? A placebo? Bogus.

[Jarodd21]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

USER
qb accuracy-6-8 (have tried them all)

passblock-50

wr catch-55

CPU
pass reaction-100
int-40
passrush-100


GAMESPEED-very fast
SPEED THRESHOLD-0

And there are plenty of ways to differentiate user controlled quarterbacks to make it more difficult to play with average to bad quarterbacks, even to differentiate good ones from other good ones or great ones, just read wishlists and message boards. Accuracy is also already rated on the game, it just doesnt show up on throws, so what is the rating? A placebo? Bogus.

These things I highlighted is the problem. You might wanna increase the difficulty. You have an All-Pro setting for the USER passing totalling out at 111. Try lowering it down to an All-Madden setting of 75 or lower for the USER total and you will see a difference in how the CPUs plays against your passing offense.. That has a big affect on your accuracy no matter how low you go with it. Your catching and Pass blocking is too high. You also have the CPUs INTs too low. That has a big affect on how the CPU defends the ball when its in the air. The gameplay is casual for All-Pro which can be easy to exploit for most users who are real good at passing. You definitely have to crank up the difficulty if you want you pass game to be slowed down. Check out my sliders in my signature if your looking for the CPU to challenge your passing and you will see a difference in the QBs you control..

[michapop9]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

These things I highlighted is the problem. You might wanna increase the difficulty. You have an All-Pro setting for the USER passing totalling out at 111. Trying lower it down to an All-Madden setting of 75 or lower for the USER total and you will see a difference in how the CPUs plays against your passing offense.. That has a big affect on your accuracy no matter how low you go with it. Your catching and Pass blocking is too high. You also have the CPUs INTs too low. That has a big affect on how the CPU defends the ball when its in the air. The gameplay is casual for All-Pro which can be easy to exploit for most users who are real good at passing. You definitely have to crank up the difficulty if you want you pass game to be slowed down. Check out my sliders in my signature if your looking for the CPU to challenge your passing..

Thanks, I appreciate the advice, I know exactly what youre talking about, youre right, you and playmakers have some pretty decent sliders for difficulty, however the real issue is not the total difficulty, its that when I lower those to get the difficulty that I want, it might be a challenge, but its just as much of a challenge with jason campbell as with aaron rodgers, I want to be able to complete maybe 60-63 percent of my passes and not be able to make tough low percentage throws with campbell so I have to change my gameplan and run with mcfadden, where as rodgers can throw 64-67-70 percent of his passes throw on the run and make some low percentage passes look easy. Also Lob it over tight coverages and go through multiple reads. Whereas with this game I got just as much of a chance completing any pass with rodgers as I do with campbell, thats where my frustration comes in. Thank you though for the post, what r your thoughts on the whole differentiation idea and how do you think its implemented in madden?

[Jarodd21]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

Thanks, I appreciate the advice, I know exactly what youre talking about, youre right, you and playmakers have some pretty decent sliders for difficulty, however the real issue is not the total difficulty, its that when I lower those to get the difficulty that I want, it might be a challenge, but its just as much of a challenge with jason campbell as with aaron rodgers, I want to be able to complete maybe 60-63 percent of my passes and not be able to make tough low percentage throws with campbell so I have to change my gameplan and run with mcfadden, where as rodgers can throw 64-67-70 percent of his passes throw on the run and make some low percentage passes look easy. Also Lob it over tight coverages and go through multiple reads. Whereas with this game I got just as much of a chance completing any pass with rodgers as I do with campbell, thats where my frustration comes in. Thank you though for the post, what r your thoughts on the whole differentiation idea and how do you think its implemented in madden?

I think you will see a difference in Players when you have it on the right difficulties. With how I have mine set up it would be hard to be very successful with a lower rated QB then it would be with a highly rated one.. That is one thing I believe you will see if you try it out. I have all kinds of guys telling me how they were struggling with low rated QBs and once they get a good one its a difference.. I just think it depends on where you have it set up with the sliders.. On All-Pro I believe the ratings doesn't really matter with the USER control QBs. If you're a pretty good passer(which it sounds like you are) you won't have trouble slinging it around with any QB on an All-Pro settings. I just think its programmed like that on that level.. I see the difference in QBs on All-Madden while using the left stick to directional throw and precision pass.. You just have to find the right accuracy for the USER once you start testing it in that area..

[youALREADYknow]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

These things I highlighted is the problem. You might wanna increase the difficulty...

Just stop. Some of you guys swear sliders fix everything, but you're missing the point of the thread and he's absolutely right.

Problems the OP mentioned:
1. There are only a few windows where balls are thrown that are predetermined by this game.
2. There is not enough "spread" in the ratings for QB's resulting in a bunch of clones with either SPD/AGI/ACC differences or throwing release animation differences that don't accurately reflect what a quick release actually does to separate good QB's from mediocre ones.

Neither of these can be fixed with sliders. Problem #1 can be slightly improved by finding the right slider window that makes passes fall slightly off target for most QB's, but the same could be done by adjusting QB ratings in rosters. This is a workaround, not a solution to the problem. Problem #2 can be slightly improved by roster editing, but that results in the sim engine going haywire and CPU AI controlled QB's playing horrendously. Still yet again a workaround and not a solution.

Passing needs a major overhaul in so many areas. I doubt we get it until the next generation of consoles though.

[Jarodd21]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

Just stop. Some of you guys swear sliders fix everything, but you're missing the point of the thread and he's absolutely right.

Problems the OP mentioned:
1. There are only a few windows where balls are thrown that are predetermined by this game.
2. There is not enough "spread" in the ratings for QB's resulting in a bunch of clones with either SPD/AGI/ACC differences or throwing release animation differences that don't accurately reflect what a quick release actually does to separate good QB's from mediocre ones.

Neither of these can be fixed with sliders. Problem #1 can be slightly improved by finding the right slider window that makes passes fall slightly off target for most QB's, but the same could be done by adjusting QB ratings in rosters. This is a workaround, not a solution to the problem. Problem #2 can be slightly improved by roster editing, but that results in the sim engine going haywire and CPU AI controlled QB's playing horrendously. Still yet again a workaround and not a solution.

Passing needs a major overhaul in so many areas. I doubt we get it until the next generation of consoles though.

I understand what the OP is saying and I simply said I do see the difference in low rated and high rated QBs with how I have mine set up and so do others... Difficulty does affect certain things with sliders and the difference in how players perform. Thats my opinion on it and you have yours. Its worth a try for him to find out for himself..

[michapop9]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

I understand what the OP is saying and I simply said I do see the difference in low rated and high rated QBs with how I have mine set up and so do others... Difficulty does affect certain things with sliders and the difference in how players perform. Thats my opinion on it and you have yours. Its worth a try for him to find out for himself..

I appreciate the thoughts, I will try it when I get home, hopefully the new madden team sees this and with doubling the amount of people to work on gameplay will address it, even using your method Jarod it may help but I still feel YouAlreadyknow is right, but all we can do is work around it to make it slightly playable, I enjoy the game to a point, (its another step in the right direction) but get really frustrated when the game doesnt play like I think it should or could.

[Haze88]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

Honestly awareness is a cpu only rating. Awareness doesn't matter for a player since we see the whole field at once, so decisions that a real backup quaterback would make will never happen with user control since we'll see a better choice and make it causing people to feel the Brady=Clausen type syndrome since we'll make the Brady desicion the the Clausen model which is technically unrealistic

[youALREADYknow]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

I understand what the OP is saying and I simply said I do see the difference in low rated and high rated QBs with how I have mine set up and so do others... Difficulty does affect certain things with sliders and the difference in how players perform. Thats my opinion on it and you have yours. Its worth a try for him to find out for himself..

I agree with everything you just said, just don't want this very real issue to go ignored because the passing game on Madden is one aspect of the game that us slider creators and roster makers have little control over. The decision making and the number of possible outcomes just are off.

[michapop9]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

Honestly awareness is a cpu only rating. Awareness doesn't matter for a player since we see the whole field at once, so decisions that a real backup quaterback would make will never happen with user control since we'll see a better choice and make it causing people to feel the Brady=Clausen type syndrome since we'll make the Brady desicion the the Clausen model which is technically unrealistic

there are a number of ways to fix this that dont just involve a vision cone (tho that is my favorite one), make defense react quicker and play better for lower rated quarterbacks, limit number of icons you see or even better make the number of routes your able to see when you bring up the play limited, both on the playcall screen and on the field preplay.

thats not the only issue, how fast a quarterback releases theball when he starts his throwing motion should be involved to.

and qb accuracy can be slightly more exaggerated between qb's since we can see the whole field, Im talking about a system where an 85 accuracy is different than an 89 accuracy (short, medium, or deep) in such a way where its not just missing a throw a certain number of times more or less than another different rated qb, but also by how much, sometimes the difference between an 85 and 89 qb could mean an incompletion with an average reciever where a great reciever with a high spectacular catch could make the grab where an 89 might of just hit him to where he made the catch but didnt get any YAC and then a 99 or 95 or whatever would of hit him in stride and he could of kept going, where talking about inches sometimes here, some quarterbacks can fit it into tight spaces whereas other qbs who arent that much less accurate cant. Lets get some variety here that can spark some really awesome looking plays depending on where the ball is being thrown and whos catching it.

The lobbing over coverage is really lacking in this game too, its almost always batted down where missed throws from qbs that are short are usually picked off and most misses that result in incompletions are thrown long, where a reciever could possibly make a diving catch. Tons of potential and great additions to gameplay with that idea alone.

The NFL is becoming (already is) a passing league, lets reflect that in Madden.

[iamwubbie]

Re: qb accuracy and differentiation

Actually, I think EA does a decent job of differentiating QBs.

-Pocket vs. Mobile: Speed/Acceleration is the simple way of looking at it. You can't run around with Peyton Manning like you do with Michael Vick.

- SAC, MAC, DAC Ratings: Against Cover 2, I rarely hit that small window between the 2 safeties and the MLB playing intermediate zone whenever I use Alex Smith (49ers are my primary franchise). When I play around and use the Colts, Peyton Manning hits that spot on the field like it's nothing.

Of course, there can be some improvements.

I think QB RELEASE should be a new rating for QBs. It'll make for some interesting combinations. Peyton Manning is the prototypical pocket QB, so once you hit the button to throw it to the WR, the ball is out instantly. Meanwhile, let's say Alex Smith makes that same throw. There could probably be an extra frame or two of lag for him. Like in real-life, for Alex Smith to have any *chance* of decent numbers, he's going to need a good pocket, with time, to make his throw.