KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

**Chedapalooza** · 10-02-2011, 11:56 PM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

Isn't there a trucking rating which could be used for brk tackle?

Impact block included in pass block?

Strength maybe should be included in fumbles (stringer players fumble less)

Pass rush shouldn't include blk shed as there is a separate block shed slider..

These r all IMO..

**Chedapalooza** · 10-03-2011, 12:01 AM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

What's ur reasoning for finding every team as well as the league average?

Mind u- I spent 3 hours on ONE team.. And achieve essnektally the same numbers (+ or - 1 to 2 clicks legit) as the other guy doing this by just using overalls.. So the overalls are basically giving us the same
Numbers as
Doing it this way :/

**KBLover** · 10-03-2011, 01:00 AM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

Originally posted by Chedapalooza

Isn't there a trucking rating which could be used for brk tackle?

Impact block included in pass block?

Strength maybe should be included in fumbles (stringer players fumble less)

Pass rush shouldn't include blk shed as there is a separate block shed slider..

These r all IMO..

For Truck rating - I didn't know if that was for the move (i.e the R-stick move) or for running through/fighting for yards during contact. If it's the R-Stick move and success is determined by ELU then I think ELU is best - but if it does use TRK for actual break tackle success - no problem sticking it in there. Have you noticed either way? Good TRK backs doing better fighting for yards/shedding tackles without using the actual trucking move?

I think IBL is for run blocking only? Could be wrong...

I like the idea for including STR for Fumbles.

Good point with the BSH. I'll make that change too.

As for league average vs team-by-team, I think going team-by-team is having the sliders doing what the player ratings should be doing. I admit I have a "OOTP mindset" but in that game, you set the league averages, which determine the base success rates of players getting hits or striking out, etc, then the player's ratings take the probabilities from there to sim out results.

I'm thinking that if I can find a "league average slider set" that would then allow the individual player ratings to split off from and express/create production differences, there won't be a need to change team by team/game by game/injuries, etc. If my QB goes down, the backup has to use the slider compared to league average just like the starter did, so if I'm the Colts, I'm feeling the difference big time from Manning to Painter instead of adjusting my sliders because I don't have Manning.

And just like I don't change the league averages year by year, yet OOTP still generates realistic variations and stats both player and league-wide, I think if I achieve what I'm going for, I won't need to change due to drafts, player progression, etc.

So far, I've finished the User sliders for passing offense (though I took the average of starters on the OL for pass blocking and will do the same for run blocking - after all, if there's one position where going from starter to backup can kill you, other than QB, is OL - ask the Jets tonight) and am going to take a break for the night. For QBs I took all the QBs, for WR (and probably for LBs and CBs and S's, and HBs) I'll did the team average, then averaged that.

Took me...2 hr, 13 min and that's with typos and distracted by the Ravens playing. So about 50 min a slider - not terrible, and if I can streamline (by using calculator do averages and then sticking that on Excel...like duh), I might get faster.

Right now, I'm going to go 100 - [Weighted Result] for each slider and see how it goes. I think I'll do the same for CPU, except for QB Acc, which will get 100 - User. Might make the sliders difficult, but that might not be a bad thing, especially if the CPU can play largely on the same set.

If you're curious, I came out with 29 QB Acc, 19 Pass Blk, 39 WR Catch for the User. Right now, I'm probably setting CPU on 71 QB Acc, 19 Pass Blk, 39 WR Catch.

**Chedapalooza** · 10-03-2011, 01:45 AM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

Ok. Elusiveness is for spins, jukes, avoiding contact at all costs. Truck is for taking contact and saying " f you " to the defender.. BOTH r separate ratings n need to ne combined for a total break tackle slider. Small backs sill use it onthr elusive end, big backs on trucking end.. None the less, they both need to be used in determining break tackle slider.

Edit: n everything else looks good imo

**KBLover** · 10-03-2011, 12:27 PM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

Originally posted by Chedapalooza

Ok. Elusiveness is for spins, jukes, avoiding contact at all costs. Truck is for taking contact and saying " f you " to the defender.. BOTH r separate ratings n need to ne combined for a total break tackle slider. Small backs sill use it onthr elusive end, big backs on trucking end.. None the less, they both need to be used in determining break tackle slider.

Edit: n everything else looks good imo

Thanks. Made the change with Break Tackles. It's ELU/TRK + AWR now.

Speed is going to be annoying. I might just take the fastest player (I know that's DJax as he's the only one with 100 SPD) and whoever the slowest guy is, average, then do 100 - Average and set that as the threshold.

Slowest guy is like, what, 35 or something? So the average is likely around 65 or so, putting the threshold in the 30s, which sounds reasonable. It's going to be lower than 50 since there's no 0 speed player. Even if the lowest guy is a 20, that's 120 divided by 2 = average 60 = Thresh. 40

**Chedapalooza** · 10-03-2011, 01:05 PM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

Originally posted by KBLover

Thanks. Made the change with Break Tackles. It's ELU/TRK + AWR now.

Speed is going to be annoying. I might just take the fastest player (I know that's DJax as he's the only one with 100 SPD) and whoever the slowest guy is, average, then do 100 - Average and set that as the threshold.

Slowest guy is like, what, 35 or something? So the average is likely around 65 or so, putting the threshold in the 30s, which sounds reasonable. It's going to be lower than 50 since there's no 0 speed player. Even if the lowest guy is a 20, that's 120 divided by 2 = average 60 = Thresh. 40

That sounds food for thresh.. 50 isnt right, neither Is 0.. So 30s-40s def.. Whatever # u get...

I was thinking, for specials... Can the CPU operate from a low end? We see so many eradicate kicks, shank punts, etc.. It would offer more realism for the CPU nmore chsllegne for the human.. Idk what formula / ratings tho.. At the gym lol then have class later.. Won't be on til about 930-10 :/

**Chedapalooza** · 10-03-2011, 01:09 PM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

Kick power maybe - strength + kpw
Kick acc- awr + kac

Pupwr- same but for punter
Punt acc- same but for punter

Kickoffs- same as kick power, maybe add awr and/ or acc...

Injury slider- take highest n lowest inj..

Fatigue- highest/lowest stamina... Set auto subs based off that #

Nice...

**KBLover** · 10-03-2011, 01:11 PM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

Originally posted by Chedapalooza

That sounds food for thresh.. 50 isnt right, neither Is 0.. So 30s-40s def.. Whatever # u get...

I was thinking, for specials... Can the CPU operate from a low end? We see so many eradicate kicks, shank punts, etc.. It would offer more realism for the CPU nmore chsllegne for the human.. Idk what formula / ratings tho.. At the gym lol then have class later.. Won't be on til about 930-10 :/

Yeah, I was wondering about that too. It's so ridiculous they combined the special teams sliders (WHY, EA...WHY?!), so there's definitely some trading off to do...I'm trying to get a feel for it little by little. I haven't seen a missed field goal from the CPU in a while, and now I'm working my way down to 30 in FG Acc. Last I played was at 35, but there were no really difficult or intermediate FGs (the AI had one of 20-something yards, pretty simple to hit). Of course, I booted one from 59 with Janikowski - heh. He's fun to use

Injury and fatigue are another interesting area. They both play off each other (more fatigue = faster tiring players = more injury chance), and I see a LOT of players around 80+ in both. 20 Fatigue, 20 injury would be basically iron man players. 80 injury, 80 fatigue would be fragile, quickly tiring guys.

That said, maybe take 100 - Average for one, just the plain average for the other. Something like:

Injury 100 - Average
Fatigue: Average

So if the average for both is 80, Injury: 20, Fatigue: 80. For sub-in/out...Hmm...

In might be Average - 5 (don't want it too high or they might not come back at all after a while), Out maybe Average% of that. So going with 80 again:

Out: 60
In: 75

Use that for a lot of positions. QB/OL don't sub, typically, and CB/S rarely do. So some positional adjustments for realism are probably needed.

That would be interesting...

**KBLover** · 10-03-2011, 06:59 PM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

Updated first post with the main 12 sliders.

Feel free to try them. Use whatever game speed you want (but please mention).

Also, if you mix and match the CPU sliders, please mention what you used, and if you used the USER catching at 69 or 31. I really don't know if 31 can work...but maybe it can.

Only ones I need to do are the S.T. sliders - will get to those later on I hope.

**Chedapalooza** · 10-03-2011, 07:14 PM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

I'm not sure I follow that slider chart up there.. Read ur notes a bunch if times.. Have to ask lol

**KBLover** · 10-03-2011, 07:16 PM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

Basically, it's so you can pick whichever slider settings you think the CPU needs to compete.

If you think the CPU needs higher settings (i.e. over 50), go with the 100 - USER set.

If you think the CPU can compete with the same sliders as what's there for the USER, pick the CPU (U) set.

If you think they need help in some areas, but not others, you can try the mix and match set. CPU (Mixed).

**Chedapalooza** · 10-03-2011, 07:22 PM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

Got it.. I see u just added more.. U workin the specials #s?? Very curious to see what it comes to

**KBLover** · 10-03-2011, 09:25 PM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

Originally posted by Chedapalooza

Got it.. I see u just added more.. U workin the specials #s?? Very curious to see what it comes to

Yeah, I plan to get to the special teams sliders later tonight - might be late like after midnight, sadly.

After that, I'll try some games and post stats when I can.

**KBLover** · 10-03-2011, 09:29 PM

Re: KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

One thing I found fascinating is that the USER sliders nearly came out at default All-Madden (all 25)

It's basically very hard all-pro.

KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

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KBLover's M12 Experimental Sliders, 2nd Experiment

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