Peeled back the cover for 2k12 and look what I found...

[iLLosophy]

Ok all jokes aside. Is this not Live 10 all over again? I mean I came really close to buying Live 10 as I enjoyed the demo, it was crisp, smooth and the controls were fluid but my issue with it was it was too imbalanced towards offense. It was a hybrid of 2k and NBA Jam. 2k11 had what I felt was the best balance between offense and defense by making players get pushed back and creating an "aura" around defenders that forced offensive players to create proper spacing.

Don't get me wrong, I like the new level of fluidity, but player controlled defense hasn't really gained the tools to match. The offense moves quicker and that defensive "aura" has seemed to have shrunk. You can still bump players on defense but if i'm just off by a slight tad of a pixel, I will completely miss them and they will fly right past me. Even worse, I always play mostly online so it just makes trying to guard people even worse. I am trying to master the LT + RT defense but even then you still get left behind.

Anyway - this is another one of my rants about them fixing things that weren't broken. I can just see the board room meeting now - Everybody at the table has to come up with an idea to make the best basketball game ever even better, and you end up with a handful of forced out ideas with good intentions but bad executions.

[wizzleman]

Re: Peeled back the cover for 2k12 and look what I found...

This is how I felt at first but after a bunch of games my onball defense has gotten a lot better and I'm still getting better at it.

You just gotta keep playing...repetition, repetition, repetition

[HarryDickman]

Re: Peeled back the cover for 2k12 and look what I found...

I think this place needs an NBA faq becuase some people around dont understand the game of basketball. This is not a one on one streetball match. Thi iss top level, high level basketball play and the the athleticism is off the charts. Hell damn near anyone can blow past you at this level. Now of course you do have those elite defenders that can stop someone in their tracks but even they get beat sometimes.

The objective:
play your man to his weak side, push him to the baseline with shading, shade him into the bigs, etc. This ladies and gentlemen is NBA defense. yes the NBA is a TEAM sport. where the TEAM plays together. TEAM defense{i.e. "help defense"} wins championships. I rest my case. Goodnight *moonwalks out of the thread*

[Nba2killa]

Re: Peeled back the cover for 2k12 and look what I found...

boo live :P

[_-King-_]

Re: Peeled back the cover for 2k12 and look what I found...

No not at all. People will complain over anything.

[Bizerk24]

Re: Peeled back the cover for 2k12 and look what I found...

I think this place needs an NBA faq becuase some people around dont understand the game of basketball. This is not a one on one streetball match. Thi iss top level, high level basketball play and the the athleticism is off the charts. Hell damn near anyone can blow past you at this level. Now of course you do have those elite defenders that can stop someone in their tracks but even they get beat sometimes.

The objective:
play your man to his weak side, push him to the baseline with shading, shade him into the bigs, etc. This ladies and gentlemen is NBA defense. yes the NBA is a TEAM sport. where the TEAM plays together. TEAM defense{i.e. "help defense"} wins championships. I rest my case. Goodnight *moonwalks out of the thread*

+1 I am getting better game by game but I still need slot of work, and online forget about it. But I'm shading off my man alittle more.

[HarryDickman]

Re: Peeled back the cover for 2k12 and look what I found...

+1 I am getting better game by game but I still need slot of work, and online forget about it. But I'm shading off my man alittle more.

Now this man gets it! good luck to you man. Some of these guys like wall and rose just seem like they cant be contained but as long as you play them into your other defenders youll be alright. TEAM D baby!

[TripleCrown9]

Re: Peeled back the cover for 2k12 and look what I found...

I think this place needs an NBA faq becuase some people around dont understand the game of basketball. This is not a one on one streetball match. Thi iss top level, high level basketball play and the the athleticism is off the charts. Hell damn near anyone can blow past you at this level. Now of course you do have those elite defenders that can stop someone in their tracks but even they get beat sometimes.

The objective:
play your man to his weak side, push him to the baseline with shading, shade him into the bigs, etc. This ladies and gentlemen is NBA defense. yes the NBA is a TEAM sport. where the TEAM plays together. TEAM defense{i.e. "help defense"} wins championships. I rest my case. Goodnight *moonwalks out of the thread*

Which is why I bought this beauty...


For both real life and 2K

[HarryDickman]

Re: Peeled back the cover for 2k12 and look what I found...

Nice I should check that book out. Its nice to some people that understand the game! BTW forget the Celtics! lol j/p

[TripleCrown9]

Re: Peeled back the cover for 2k12 and look what I found...

Ah, but I have 17 reasons to remember them lol. And yeah the book is only about $21. Maybe less, maybe more. It was 21.95 + tax when I bought it after Christmas.

[iLLosophy]

Re: Peeled back the cover for 2k12 and look what I found...

The objective:
play your man to his weak side, push him to the baseline with shading, shade him into the bigs, etc. This ladies and gentlemen is NBA defense. yes the NBA is a TEAM sport. where the TEAM plays together. TEAM defense{i.e. "help defense"} wins championships. I rest my case. Goodnight *moonwalks out of the thread*

After playing and watching bball for the last 15-20 years I'm pretty sure what I needed is a lecture on help defense.


Let me tell you how it really goes -

You are right generally speaking no defender can truly stay exactly in front of their guy at all times, without some type of psychic powers or really keen intuition.

However the reaction time of the average nba defenders is quicker than it is for someone reacting in a video game. In general the time it takes for someone to react in real life is shorter than it is for you to react to a stimulus from a monitor and then send a response back to your 360. We're talking miliseconds here, but considering the context every (milli) second counts. So suffice it to say, you're at a disadvantage when you're playing on ball defense in a video game. If you're a math guy I can break it down better this way:

Time it takes defender to react to a defender driving

Real Life:
Eyeball sending Nerve signal + Brain Processing + Signal to Muscles move accordingly

Video Game:
XBox signal to your Monitor + (Everything above) + Signal from Controller to Xbox

Video Game Online:
Opponent's Xbox Sending info to your Xbox + (Everything above) + Xbox sending info back to Opponent's Xbox


What they did in NBA 2k12 is make the offensive moves a lot more responsive while simultaneously removing a good amount of the "stickiness" of the defenders in 2k11, thus throwing the whole balance out of wack towards the offense. Like I said, I'm purely an online gamer, so this problem has become highly visible. When not playing on the Internet, like when I play against someone on the same machine or against the CPU, it's tolerable. But online, this is going to resort in more people playing off the ball and playing some type of zone/trap defense most of the time.

Stop trying to make this game as "real" as possible. Sorry to tell you but at the end of the day, it's a video game and everything real can't be simulated in a video game.

Which is why I bought this beauty...


For both real life and 2K

Thanks for reminding me. I skimmed through it at a book store a couple years ago and meant to get it but forgot all about it. What I did read though was pretty good though.

[SIZEqueen]

The 'aura' was terrible. It reflected an easy solution to a difficult problem. In basketball if that much physical play happened every single time people touched the ball there would be 80+ fouls per team a game.

The physics behind last years canimations were not only entirely impossible, but they actually lead to easy baskets, and didn't help the defense in reality. When you beat a guy last year, or you just wanted to move around on the perimeter you almost always got sucked into the closest defender, who literally slid his feet 4+ feet to get to you. Then his man was left wide open.

Having your primary defender always guess your first move and side hop to get to the spot where he could shoulder check you was good? Really? Really?

NBA rules dictate that the player with the ball has the right of way. Look it up.

People can't slide 4-8 feet, in rubber sole sneakers, on hardwood, and when they get there always stop a man they are not actively guarding in their tracks and send said player backward. Name a player that could do it one time (let alone every single player in the league) and I will eat crow. The contract they would get would be insane...not to mention they would never get one foul called on them, becaue in 2k11 there wasnt a foul call for that. It cannot happen. Not only that - even the best defenders get beat constantly by average players. The combination of physics, NBA rules and human reaction time pretty much dictate this.

Physics, NBA rules and common sense clearly point to 2k12 being a better representation of basketball.

[Jano]

Re: Peeled back the cover for 2k12 and look what I found...

I made the comparison to Live 10 in another thread so I get where you are coming from Ill. I never play much online so I can't relate to everything but I do get what your saying about the slant towards the offense.

In some ways it makes sense it kind of goes along with that old adage "Great defense but even better offense." So, I guess the question is how bad is the problem for you?

Will it make you want to drop the game and go back 2K11? If not lets just hope the problems some of us are having on D can be corrected with experience. Or with the WORST case scenario a patch...