No Switching (A simple discussion)

[dubbduces]

Looking at the stats, there is a tremendous amount of Int's being thrown throughout the league.

We are advancing to Week 10 and have 3 Qb's with 32 INT's and plenty more with 20 or more.
I believe (as quite a few others do, believes this has to do with users switching while the pass is in the air) I know of 2 other leagues that have a "no-switch" rule and they are in Week 10, and 11 and INT leaders are at 11 and 15. Listen, I'm not trying to decide how guys play, but the record for INT's in a season is 42, by George Blanda in 1962. We have a good 5 guys that are gonna break it! That's insane!



Season 1 Passing Statistics

<table id="myTable3" class="tablesorter"><thead> <tr><th class="header">First Name</th><th class="header">Last Name</th><th class="header">Position</th><th class="header">Team</th><th class="header">QB Rating</th><th class="header">Comp/Att</th><th class="header">Comp %</th><th class="header">Yards</th><th class="header">Avg</th><th class="header">TDs</th><th class="header headerSortUp">INTs</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody><tr><td>Sam</td><td>Bradford</td><td>QB</td><td>Rams</td><td>93.9</td><td>148/273</td><td>54.2</td><td>2176</td><td>14.7</td><td>11</td><td>32</td></tr><tr><td>Ben</td><td>Roethlisberger</td><td>QB</td><td>Steelers</td><td>88</td><td>162/308</td><td>52.6</td><td>2393</td><td>14.8</td><td>9</td><td>32</td></tr><tr><td>Ryan</td><td>Fitzpatrick</td><td>QB</td><td>Bills</td><td>56.9</td><td>198/348</td><td>56.9</td><td>2702</td><td>13.6</td><td>14</td><td>32</td></tr><tr><td>Matt</td><td>Cassel</td><td>QB</td><td>Chiefs</td><td>101.8</td><td>132/235</td><td>56.2</td><td>1866</td><td>14.1</td><td>14</td><td>25</td></tr><tr><td>Matt</td><td>Schaub</td><td>QB</td><td>Texans</td><td>98</td><td>97/169</td><td>57.4</td><td>1390</td><td>14.3</td><td>7</td><td>23</td></tr><tr><td>Peyton</td><td>Manning</td><td>QB</td><td>Colts</td><td>65.5</td><td>146/264</td><td>55.3</td><td>2278</td><td>15.6</td><td>14</td><td>23</td></tr><tr><td>Tom</td><td>Brady</td><td>QB</td><td>Patriots</td><td>130</td><td>106/205</td><td>51.7</td><td>2255</td><td>21.3</td><td>24</td><td>22</td></tr><tr><td>Eli</td><td>Manning</td><td>QB</td><td>Giants</td><td>57.4</td><td>114/232</td><td>49.1</td><td>1839</td><td>16.1</td><td>12</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td>Matt</td><td>Ryan</td><td>QB</td><td>Falcons</td><td>79.8</td><td>123/219</td><td>56.2</td><td>2225</td><td>18.1</td><td>15</td><td>18</td></tr><tr><td>Colin</td><td>Kaepernick</td><td>QB</td><td>49ers</td><td>58.6</td><td>108/207</td><td>52.2</td><td>1468</td><td>13.6</td><td>11</td><td>17</td></tr><tr><td>Josh</td><td>Freeman</td><td>QB</td><td>Buccs</td><td>79.6</td><td>130/221</td><td>58.8</td><td>1970</td><td>15.2</td><td>13</td><td>15</td></tr><tr><td>Tony</td><td>Romo</td><td>QB</td><td>Cowboys</td><td>75.5</td><td>153/266</td><td>57.5</td><td>2166</td><td>14.2</td><td>12</td><td>15</td></tr><tr><td>Mark</td><td>Sanchez</td><td>QB</td><td>Jets</td><td>64.8</td><td>81/176</td><td>46.0</td><td>1469</td><td>18.1</td><td>12</td><td>14</td></tr><tr><td>Tim</td><td>Tebow</td><td>QB</td><td>Broncos</td><td>91.8</td><td>47/107</td><td>43.9</td><td>885</td><td>18.8</td><td>6</td><td>13</td></tr><tr><td>Michael</td><td>Vick</td><td>QB</td><td>Eagles</td><td>88.5</td><td>115/193</td><td>59.6</td><td>1884</td><td>16.4</td><td>14</td><td>13</td></tr><tr><td>Jason</td><td>Campbell</td><td>QB</td><td>Raiders</td><td>81.4</td><td>102/179</td><td>57.0</td><td>1629</td><td>16.0</td><td>13</td><td>13</td></tr><tr><td>Jay</td><td>Cutler</td><td>QB</td><td>Bears</td><td>76.8</td><td>119/205</td><td>58.0</td><td>1636</td><td>13.7</td><td>12</td><td>13</td></tr><tr><td>Aaron</td><td>Rodgers</td><td>QB</td><td>Packers</td><td>100.4</td><td>113/184</td><td>61.4</td><td>2003</td><td>17.7</td><td>16</td><td>12</td></tr><tr><td>Philip</td><td>Rivers</td><td>QB</td><td>Chargers</td><td>92.3</td><td>136/199</td><td>68.3</td><td>1808</td><td>13.3</td><td>11</td><td>11</td></tr><tr><td>Matthew</td><td>Stafford</td><td>QB</td><td>Lions</td><td>80.5</td><td>116/207</td><td>56.0</td><td>1795</td><td>15.5</td><td>11</td><td>11</td></tr><tr><td>Chad</td><td>Henne</td><td>QB</td><td>Dolphins</td><td>81.8</td><td>127/223</td><td>57.0</td><td>1764</td><td>13.9</td><td>12</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>Rex</td><td>Grossman</td><td>QB</td><td>Redskins</td><td>79.7</td><td>94/167</td><td>56.3</td><td>1510</td><td>16.1</td><td>9</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>Andy</td><td>Dalton</td><td>QB</td><td>Bengals</td><td>75.2</td><td>85/154</td><td>55.2</td><td>1282</td><td>15.1</td><td>9</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>Charlie</td><td>Whitehurst</td><td>QB</td><td>Seahawks</td><td>90.6</td><td>75/138</td><td>54.3</td><td>1351</td><td>18.0</td><td>11</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td>Donovan</td><td>McNabb</td><td>QB</td><td>Vikings</td><td>79.6</td><td>107/170</td><td>62.9</td><td>1343</td><td>12.6</td><td>6</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td>Joe</td><td>Flacco</td><td>QB</td><td>Ravens</td><td>116.6</td><td>92/144</td><td>63.9</td><td>1597</td><td>17.4</td><td>14</td><td>6</td></tr><tr><td>Kevin</td><td>Kolb</td><td>QB</td><td>Cardinals</td><td>108.4</td><td>118/199</td><td>59.3</td><td>1798</td><td>15.2</td><td>19</td><td>6</td></tr><tr><td>Jake</td><td>Locker</td><td>QB</td><td>Titans</td><td>131.3</td><td>108/182</td><td>59.3</td><td>2255</td><td>20.9</td><td>24</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td>Tarvaris</td><td>Jackson</td><td>QB</td><td>Seahawks</td><td>86.4</td><td>14/29</td><td>48.3</td><td>227</td><td>16.2</td><td>1</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td>Kyle</td><td>Orton</td><td>QB</td><td>Broncos</td><td>81</td><td>45/83</td><td>54.2</td><td>653</td><td>14.5</td><td>4</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td>T.J.</td><td>Yates</td><td>QB</td><td>Texans</td><td>63.6</td><td>26/49</td><td>53.1</td><td>343</td><td>13.2</td><td>2</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td>Matt</td><td>Leinart</td><td>QB</td><td>Texans</td><td>65.4</td><td>5/10</td><td>50.0</td><td>52</td><td>10.4</td><td>0</td><td>2</td></tr><tr><td>Christian</td><td>Ponder</td><td>QB</td><td>Vikings</td><td>112.9</td><td>29/48</td><td>60.4</td><td>477</td><td>16.4</td><td>4</td><td>1</td></tr><tr><td>Kerry</td><td>Collins</td><td>QB</td><td>Colts</td><td>110</td><td>4/5</td><td>80.0</td><td>52</td><td>13.0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td>John</td><td>Beck</td><td>QB</td><td>Redskins</td><td>96.8</td><td>18/30</td><td>60.0</td><td>162</td><td>9.0</td><td>2</td><td>0</td></tr></tbody></table>


Also, you have Karlos Dansby with 13 INT's which further illustrates the point. I'm putting up a vote to decide the fate of switching when the pass is thrown. Either we vote to keep it and just deal with the crazy INT numbers, or outlaw it and regain a semblance of balance in the numbers.

Pros of "No switching"
Cuts down Int numbers
You still can user a safety or LB, just not switch when football is in the air.
Players will actually be able to open up their playbook
The pass interferrence that never gets called when passing, would stop.

Cons
Another rule to learn.
Another gameplay style to get used to.

Remember, before Madden 11 dropped, no one thought zig-zagging was wrong, until a real discussion was had about it and we decided to scrap it. This is all this is. I'm not making this post to diss anyone's play-style or anything like that, but this is looking to out of whack, and I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't open up discussion about it.


There is a poll up top please vote.

[Shards]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

I voted yes on this but it has nothing to do with the stat this year. I blame that on the new "feel" of the game mostly. We could get away with a lot of throws that NFL QBs would never throw and now we pay for those throws.

With players now having traits you really notice guys who are aggressive in coverage. User controlling them completely removes this. I've never been a fan of user catching for the same reason. I enjoy building a team and seeing how they pan out so again this is just my style.

The killer for me is the vertical leap as a user Catcher or Defender. Go outside and backpedal as fast as you can. Then try to jump as high as you can. You will more than likely end up falling on your @$$. Now in the game I can back pedal at full speed and jump 40 inches to snag a ball I should have struggled to locate. I know the AI makes some crazy Interceptions but not as many as we make (often guys who have no buisness even attempting a catch).

Just my two cents. I know a lot of guys work on user catching and picks. I don't have a problem with that but it just feel a little more real to me when these players are not user controlled

[Simile000]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

I voted yes as well. The only reason why I have voted yes is because of the fact that this is how I play already. The pros of not switching is that you don't "accidently" run your players out of position by overrunning plays, jump balls, etc. I've only had 2 games where I've been beaten deep and that's saying something. I've only thrown 5 INTs this year because of smart passing for 1 and 2 because I let the computer catch the football unless it's on a curl route then I know the computer's offensive player won't come back for the ball leaving the defensive user the ability to attack the football. I've beaten teams this year by way of the big play besides people switch players too much and I just take advantage of their aggressiveness. Yes it's another rule to learn but it'll help cut down on the huge scoring gaps.

[dubbduces]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

I'm right there with you guys, it's just a feel of the game thing for me this year.......

[TheShizNo1]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

I voted yes also. Picks I've thrown have either been my own fault(most of them) or simple Madden BS. I haven't seen too many that were picked b/c of the user. I think guys that are throwing all those picks are just reckless w/ the football.

I voted yes b/c I believe it puts more stock into ratings, thus putting more stock into FA/trades/drafting, etc

[SuperSeahawks]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

I voted yes for the sake of stats; it'll take a big adjustment but if I'm going to user LeGree at Safety, I'll do from the start of the play until the play ends.

[LBzrule]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

I voted no on this. I don't like giving up big pass plays on defense and this only helps that. If you have bad DB's this is going to kill you. The bad DB's will already be bad but if you cannot switch and help them get into place it is going to be a nightmare. If you can't switch then watch the lob deep pass in which the WR's always jump but your DB's just stand there and do nothing. Secondly, Jack Diamond just went on a two game streak where he did not throw an INT. If he can do it others can yeahhhhhhh!!!!

[dubbduces]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

I voted no on this. I don't like giving up big pass plays on defense and this only helps that. If you have bad DB's this is going to kill you. The bad DB's will already be bad but if you cannot switch and help them get into place it is going to be a nightmare. If you can't switch then watch the lob deep pass in which the WR's always jump but your DB's just stand there and do nothing. Secondly, Jack Diamond just went on a two game streak where he did not throw an INT. If he can do it others can yeahhhhhhh!!!!

I see your point, but there are plenty of pass plays where the WR cant catch either without switching. A "no switch" rule in theory lets players make the plays. Also stops players who have no business making plays from making them. Makes GM skills count more.

[F0rl3fclov3r]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

I also voted no. Most interceptions are based on bad plays by the qb. I think the user control is integral part of the defense including but not limited to switching before, or during a play. Some plays that an offense can run almost always require user interaction, short slants, curls and other plays.

Sim gameplay is the only way to play and rules must always be a part of it but you have to make sure not to cross a fine line where rules take away from the skilled user advantage or the fun of Madden. If we keep trying to add rules to take out that element, soon we will just be picking the play and allowing the CPU to complete it in full and whichever players have a better rating will prevail.

Users switching players during plays trying to make a play on the ball like i said takes practice and skill. If you time the play correctly and have the ability to make a play, that's user skill, the downside to this? Mis-timing the play and the offensive player getting not only a grab but now many more YAC.

In addition, if a rule like this was implemented it would be a significant advantage to the offense as the offense can still user catch. User always has advantage over CPU. This rule would make the most important player on your team be your CB as lower rated CB's would consistently get burned over and over.

[Bs up hoes down]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

I voted no

[d11king]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

I voted no as well. To me, it's just people being wreckless with the ball in my mind. If you look at the stats you posted, only 7 of those QB's have a completion percentage of 60% or higher, and if I'm not mistaken, teams want their QB's in that range. I already play safety, and I don't do a lot of switching when the ball is thrown in the air, but sometimes, like LB said, if you have a bad DB, he won't even make a play on the ball to either really or deflect it or intercept.

For example, a rookie QB Jake Locker has a TD/INT ratio of 24/5, heck even since I started using my rookie QB Christian Ponder, his ratio is 4/1, but Peyton Manning's is 13/24, Tom Brady is 24/22 and Roethlisberger is 9/32. And I'm not completely sure cause I haven't seen the standings, but I would think the QB's with a good TD/INT ratio are also some of the best teams in the league. So I just think it's people playing wreckless IMO.

Another example, when I played the Packers, Rodgers threw 4 INT's and I didn't user pick one.

[F0rl3fclov3r]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

Just a quick side note. Dubb, I'm thinking this was just a poll just to gauge people's opinions, nothing much more but Unless the voting is overwhelming in a favor to change rules, I hope it stays as is. It would be unfortunate for a rule change, whether this one or a new one we come up with in year 3, for a 51% vote, to be enough to overturn current rules.

Don't know what you think about that, maybe like 75% or so for rule changes.

[SuperSeahawks]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

After thinking about it, I'll switch my vote to no.

[LBzrule]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

The other reason why I say no is exactly the two instances that happened in the game I just played. On a deep pass to Rice and luckily he was out of bounds, Jimmy Smith turned around and was strafing but he did nothing and let Rice catch the ball behind him. If I can't switch and if Rice does not go out of bounds that's a TD. At least if I switch, Smith might give up the play, but I can make the tackle or even just get interference. On another play the CPU made Ed Reed go for an INT and warp directly pass the Seahawks TE and gave up a 70 + yard score. I don't like not being able to switch. IF I had switched on that I could have either swatted the ball or at least made the tackle instead of the game making a hall of famer just warp away from a play he could have made.

[AC IS ART]

Re: No Switching (A simple discussion)

I say no. Only way I can agree with this rule is if the same was applied to user catching. I've thrown 25 INTs this season and not even half of those have been "user picks". More often than not when you do switch to swat or go for the pick the defender either misses the receiver/football completely or it doesn't even register and he's standing or strafing like he's mentally challenged.

Meanwhile I watch guys with catch ratings below 70 destroy my All-Pro corner(ratings?!?!) simply because of user catching. Doesn't matter if I'm in position,usering, letting the CPU play it, using defensive assist, etc. the defender almost always gets animations that make him back away or play the football late.

If this rule was to pass, it also leaves you vulnerable to jump ball and dive ball scenarios. The jump ball is almost a 90% chance of going to the receiver anyway, at least switching to the corner gives you a chance like LBz said. Curl routes, which are already money, will definitely become a league wide offense. Only thing that stops that consistently is buzz zones and even then you NEED to user the defender to truly shut that down.The passing windows are narrower and the defensive A.I. isn't as forgiving as M11. The same people who are throwing the INTs will continue to do so even if the rule is passed.

Summary: I'm not in favor of any rule that makes defense more difficult than it already is in this game, nor am I in favor of leaving the fate of my defense in the hands of Madden A.I.