NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

[tcnumba10]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

Hey Czar, just wondering what Difficulty Setting are you playing on?

Also, have you noticed the excessive bumping between the defender and the ball-handler? I can use Calderon to guard Rose perfectly since I can bump Rose with my body back out to the perimeter. In real-life it would probably be called a foul if that happened.

I would also like to see more of that snaking/sliding animation where the ball handler slips by the defender's body as he drive past him...

[Vast]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

Thanks Czar, invaluable information in your vids as usual. I can't wait to show these vids to my boy so he can step his game up!

[youvalss]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da Czar)

I learn a lot from these videos. Czar, you should write the next 2K's manual (not the PDF, but the one that comes with the game), or at least have some "Czar Tips" in it.

[ffaacc03]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da Czar)

Great video Czar.

The only problem I seem to have is triggering the contest while recovering. A few issues regarding this:

-The contest doesn't always occur. You can't recover (for example, in the video at 5:25) and get a "real" contest. Seems like you have to be right in front of the player.
-The contest occurs but if you move the RS >ever so slightly< you will "break" the contest and your player will just stand there.
-I commit an intentional foul

I'm trying to chalk these up to user error but I've experimented on wide variety of scenarios and the only thing consistent is the inconsistency.

I'll add this is MOSTLY online... which seems to require a different approach.

I agree, thus it happens to me on both, offline and online.

To me, it seems that if you contest from an angle and not strictly straight in front of the shooter, the chances of affecting the shot are minimum to none. Even if the angle is slightly. With or without animation.

I also agree that there is some inconsistency to trigger the contest and the hands up animation, even to keep it ... and once in online, the experience gets more frustrating due to the noticeable lag.

Having said that, I need tons of practice.

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da Czar)

Regardless it needs to give us the visual cue that what we entered has taken effect. I have reported that to the defense guys and I hope it is something they can turn on in time for a patch. Have no idea if it is that simple.

As a defender we need that consistency

Speaking of inconsistent visual cues on contests, do you know why sometimes players will refuse to commit to a block even after we've pressed Y? I know sometimes it's because it's a late contest, but it doesn't feel right that we can't get a hand up to block/contest just because we're a hair late. If I'm turboing towards a perimeter shooter and mash Y, I better see some sort of flying block attempt regardless of timing or other factors. I don't see the advantage of the AI deciding not to commit when the shot is clearly going up.

Is it just simulating players knowing they're not going to make it in time and saving a little energy? Is it a two-man animation you get sucked into when you're late? Does it animate that way so your player doesn't look ridiculous jumping at a shot that's already past his head? If any of these is the case, I think the tolerance for lateness should be increased so it doesn't feel like the AI is overriding our input for no good reason.

[DJ]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

Thanks as always for the knowledge, Czar.

[domidomdomz]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

Great informative vid. Appreciate all your efforts, Czar!

[kolanji]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

mein these videos keep makeing 2k12 more and more convincving of the best sports game ever i am officially convinced of the greatnest of nba 2k12 VC take a bow......mission accomplished

[23]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

Great work as usual Czar...

[richmo]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

Thanks Czar, taught me a couple useful things.

From what I saw out the vid and from testing myself, there is a set number of speeds for each level of defense you apply (in ascending order of speed):

Regular Movement
1. Hop
2. Walk/Light shuffle
3. Jog/Medium shuffle

One thing I noticed is that, though the speeds are the same, there are two sets of animations for regular movement which are related to distance from the ballhandler: one within 6 feet and the other outside of 6 feet. You'll notice when the defender enters this range he'll automatically crouch into his stance and the ballhandler will make shorter, quicker dribbles in reaction to this.

L-Trigger D
1. Hop
2. Light Shuffle = #2 above

LT + RT
1. Light Shuffle = #2 of both above
2. Hard Shuffle

So seems to me the fastest speeds of Regular Movement D and LT + RT D are the ones you want to use the most. Another small tidbit a lot of people (including myself until moments ago) may not know: When using Hands Up defense (I use camera relative), Towards the BH creates a "lean-on" effect, very good to pressure someone who just picked up his dribble. Left/right of the BH will attempt to lean in that certain direction. And away form him will make you a bit "taller" so to speak. These are all good in the paint, but "away" might get you less fouls as it is "straight up" in the air, but I haven't tested this.

[GP Mercy]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

12 years of playing NBA 2K, and it takes 7 mins to finally grasp the idea of defense. Thank you!

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da Czar)

Speaking of inconsistent visual cues on contests, do you know why sometimes players will refuse to commit to a block even after we've pressed Y? I know sometimes it's because it's a late contest, but it doesn't feel right that we can't get a hand up to block/contest just because we're a hair late. If I'm turboing towards a perimeter shooter and mash Y, I better see some sort of flying block attempt regardless of timing or other factors. I don't see the advantage of the AI deciding not to commit when the shot is clearly going up.

Is it just simulating players knowing they're not going to make it in time and saving a little energy? Is it a two-man animation you get sucked into when you're late? Does it animate that way so your player doesn't look ridiculous jumping at a shot that's already past his head? If any of these is the case, I think the tolerance for lateness should be increased so it doesn't feel like the AI is overriding our input for no good reason.

I do not know why but I think it needs to be fixed. User input should override everything. I think this is an area they can improve on. I definitely don't like the combination of the hands up = a shot contest. Maybe I want to stay where I am...and contest from a distance... So these are things I think they can improve on.

The basic tools are there but they can be refined. The good thing about 2k is we do have their ear in a sense so feedback like this is stuff we can make a point about in feedback to them. May or may not be too much for a patch and honestly you don't want them getting too cute with that patch because one change someplace can mess things up every place. LOLOL

But I am making a note of the excellent feedback you guys are giving in this topic.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

Thanks Czar, taught me a couple useful things.

From what I saw out the vid and from testing myself, there is a set number of speeds for each level of defense you apply (in ascending order of speed):

Regular Movement
1. Hop
2. Walk/Light shuffle
3. Jog/Medium shuffle

One thing I noticed is that, though the speeds are the same, there are two sets of animations for regular movement which are related to distance from the ballhandler: one within 6 feet and the other outside of 6 feet. You'll notice when the defender enters this range he'll automatically crouch into his stance and the ballhandler will make shorter, quicker dribbles in reaction to this.

L-Trigger D
1. Hop
2. Light Shuffle = #2 above

LT + RT
1. Light Shuffle = #2 of both above
2. Hard Shuffle

So seems to me the fastest speeds of Regular Movement D and LT + RT D are the ones you want to use the most. Another small tidbit a lot of people (including myself until moments ago) may not know: When using Hands Up defense (I use camera relative), Towards the BH creates a "lean-on" effect, very good to pressure someone who just picked up his dribble. Left/right of the BH will attempt to lean in that certain direction. And away form him will make you a bit "taller" so to speak. These are all good in the paint, but "away" might get you less fouls as it is "straight up" in the air, but I haven't tested this.

Great stuff Richmo !!!

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

Hey Czar, just wondering what Difficulty Setting are you playing on?

Also, have you noticed the excessive bumping between the defender and the ball-handler? I can use Calderon to guard Rose perfectly since I can bump Rose with my body back out to the perimeter. In real-life it would probably be called a foul if that happened.

I would also like to see more of that snaking/sliding animation where the ball handler slips by the defender's body as he drive past him...

I am playing on all star right now. I have not found the bumping to be excessive but my defensive style as in the video is more passive in meeting and cutting off.

Is this mostly you are able to bump the cpu too much or do you find they are able to bump you too much as well ?

I thought most were thinking the cpu is too slippery already. Maybe *** everyone's defense get's better we will see what you see.

I do believe that their foul system needs to catch up with the new physics some of those bumps should be fouls as well as in air collisions. For that to work the contests HAVE to be both consistent and controllable. So were not fouling out because of auto-contests.

[erickonasis]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

I am playing on all star right now. I have not found the bumping to be excessive but my defensive style as in the video is more passive in meeting and cutting off.

Is this mostly you are able to bump the cpu too much or do you find they are able to bump you too much as well ?

I thought most were thinking the cpu is too slippery already. Maybe *** everyone's defense get's better we will see what you see.

I do believe that their foul system needs to catch up with the new physics some of those bumps should be fouls as well as in air collisions. For that to work the contests HAVE to be both consistent and controllable. So were not fouling out because of auto-contests.

You hands down have the best 2k vids out there