Great video depicting 2k's totally flawed AI

[NealN42]

I'm not sure if it's the default, and awful for that matter, player tendencies or what...but after playing 2k12 for nearly 2 weeks now I just don't feel that 2k has improved teammate AI or passing in any way shape or form. Here's a good example -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fupUB3fvszA

and another -

http://www.youtube.com/user/akaBPhife#p/u/2/EYA2v6IiqRw

[SIZEqueen]

Re: Great video depicting 2k's totally flawed AI

I don't have luck on fastbreaks, but I never have. I heard it was improved this year but I see Rondo and Garnett spotting up beyond the arc just like Grant Hill did for you. Honestly I just assume it's either a slider setting(s) or user error.

As far as defense goes...I have said too much already. Look up my posts dude. I think the defense model is pure garbage and needs to be completely redone. I just don't ever touch turbo, use crossovers or try anything in the paint anymore. I shoot jumpshots. I got a nice dunk on a steal last night though. First time I scored in the paint (save posting up) in over 3 entire games.

When they remove the defensive abilities to slide, morph, run faster than while going sideways or backwards and predict the future, this game is going to be pretty good. When they remove the things I just mentioned and actually tone down the length of animations, change or remove the bumping and tighten up player control so you feel like your're on a court and not on ice skates, this game is going to be amazing!

Fingers crossed for patches or 2k15!

[SIZEqueen]

Re: Great video depicting 2k's totally flawed AI

It baffles me how many fans are on this site who say "this is the greatest basketball game ever, and you just suck cuz I dunk on everyone in Assoc., My Player, on Hall of Fame sim slider, you need to master the controls and dont use turbo". Then why is there is a turbo button? Why is it the only way I can enjoy the game is to master every single control in the game? Why can't my "athletic" 2-guard drive to the hoop and make a simple layup but the AI scrubs can "achieve ISO-motion" (sorry Czar) and ignore contact in the paint?

The only way I was able to progress My Player was to take 35 jump shots a game and that's only after I got my mid-range up to the 90s. I never took free throws because i simply had no chance to drive to the hoop. It's nonsense. I won't even touch 2k12 because of this. Right now, i'm going with a 7 foot 3 center and he can't dunk smh.......

I feel ya, bro. I think it's because defense is hard to replicate. NBA defense is like an enigma wrapped in a riddle. 90% of the time the ball gets passed around the horn causing someone to be out of position defensively or in a good spot offensively. From there, there is some dribbling and/or driving based on match ups,the situation and position on the floor. More often than not, the defensive team gets beat quite convincingly. Whether it be a nice spot up jimmy, a drive for an easy 2, a drive and dish for a nice 3, a drive and dump for a foul call down low, a drive catching a man at a horrible angle and leaving him the choice to foul or let his man go, etc. I can go on and on, but you get the point.

When trying to not have dunk fests and wide open jump shooting clinics the developers invented physics-breaking, time-folding, no-rules-applying robots as defenders in their game(s). It still leads to jump shooting clinics...it's just that this year the shots are 3's.

[SIZEqueen]

Re: Great video depicting 2k's totally flawed AI

I dont want a dunk fest. But when I've got LeBron, I wanna feel like LeBron, invincible. When I have Dwight Howard, I dont want him to freeze in mid-run, while the defense boxes me out into the seats. I'm sick of defender morphing into position (which is CLEARLY outlined on that video) when I had them beat. And I'm sick of Raja Bell dribbling the ball for 15 seconds, doing a bunch of ISO moves and then spin fadeaway jumper SWISH? gtfoh.....

I don't want dunk fests either. However, I want any player in the league at the 1,2,3 or even the 4 to be able to get by Antonio McDyss. I used McDyss the other day and shut down Shannon Brown. Now this is strictly speculation, but I'm gonna go ahead and say Shannon Brown would beat Antonio McDyss off the hop 100 times out of 100. Worst of it - had he not used any iso moves (especially crossovers, some are way worse than others) he would have had an 80% chance to literally just walk by him, but using iso moves triggers the super ultra mega awesome defense mode, which leads to shoulder checks and loss of ball control. It wouldn't have mattered anyway...Duncan would have slid over from the low block and shoulder checked him.

[SIZEqueen]

Re: Great video depicting 2k's totally flawed AI

oh you mean <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1pBeCQak588" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Haha, to a lesser degree, yes. Instead of actually throwing his shoulder and dropping him, he would have done that get low and lean weighted into Brown, stopping him dead in his tracks, despite physics and the rules.

The funny thing about that video, aside from the obvious, is it shows how the bumping and stopping just can't happen like it does in this game. You get 2 big guys going in opposite directions, one trying to stop the other by getting in front of him, it leads to that or football and hockey. None of this stuff I see in the game. Not saying there isn't some good bodied up d in the league, just saying it isn't every player, every time. Offensive players have an advantage in the rulebook and in practice. That's just life.

[Scrooge]

Re: Great video depicting 2k's totally flawed AI

2k is far from perfect
with that said
the grant hill fastbreak video was CLEARLY HIS FAULT
he icon lead passed him which is why he changed his direction. if he would have let the left stick go neutral before passing it to X he would have cut it in stride. (or turn off lead passing whatever works for u)
its pretty obvious grant hill was about 2 cut then soon as he started passing it he ran to the 3 point line.

[Hotobu]

Re: Great video depicting 2k's totally flawed AI

2k is far from perfect
with that said
the grant hill fastbreak video was CLEARLY HIS FAULT
he icon lead passed him which is why he changed his direction. if he would have let the left stick go neutral before passing it to X he would have cut it in stride. (or turn off lead passing whatever works for u)
its pretty obvious grant hill was about 2 cut then soon as he started passing it he ran to the 3 point line.

This was my thought when I first saw the video as well, and I think you may be right. It's an ambiguous example of an actual flaw.

To the op: You want to make a video or series of videos about a glaring issue? Show your big men not boxing out in the paint. Play a game, a half, hell even a quarter. You'll have plenty of footage. For the most part bigs just stand there in the paint.

Oh and how about this. CPU pass "button reading" when playing the passing lanes. I understand that technically no matter what we do the game is technically reading our inputs, but the next time you have a pass tipped go to instant replay to see why. The instant your animation changes so does the computer's. It's like you simultaneously are controlling two people. One to make the pass and one to make the steal. I wont deny that I make some risky passes from time to time, but if there was even a SLIGHT delay (human reaction time is .3 seconds right? why not go with that) then I think there would be far less complaints on the passing. I don't want it to be like years past where I could force anything anywhere, but as of now instant reactions are a bit silly too.

[bakan723]

Re: Great video depicting 2k's totally flawed AI

The AI is whacked out in all these sports games. When you actually watch the replays closely, it's pretty laughable. A game like baseball is easier to make realistic though because there's not as much going on out there.

[NealN42]

Re: Great video depicting 2k's totally flawed AI

Yet ANOTHER example of the totally worthless AI that 2k keeps telling us has been "improved from last year". This one from the man himself Chris Smoove -

http://www.youtube.com/user/Smoove7182954?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/2/Ns13t03BZZg

[adwin7]

To say that 2k12 ai is totally flawed is about the most grossly overstated thing I've heard. Most of what you've pointed out is correct. There are issues with 2k12 that need to be addressed, but TOTALLY flawed is going a bit far. People and devs won't take you seriously when you say blanket statements like that. The game still plays amazingly, and we somehow expect 2k make a perfect game, so we blow up every flaw. I think it's pointless and counterproductive. All this has been pointed out before.

[Giants4Natic]

Re: Great video depicting 2k's totally flawed AI

These are flawed arguments and not even legacy flaws

the first video with the fast break was the users fault. Zero clue on how to run a fast break with the directional passing.

I never seen any player regardless of his ICON move to the 3pt line on a clean break...BS

The second video is my biggest pet peeve with people who continue to bs about the defense appearing infront of you when you have a step or 2 on them.

That is false and if you want to know why is because you continue to get a step and then hit your nitro gas along with no shooting to you get to the rim which is the biggest no no.

If that is what you want to do then play last years 2k where defense was non existent and allowed for nba jam scores and plays.

You do not use turbo in any sports game when you are within a step or 2 of the defender in any sports game unless you play in rookie or pro mode.

If you want to increase the challenge then you are raising the skill set of the cpu to match the speed and quickness of a human hand.

In the video with Nash, he had a step on Rondo but I can assure you that he had his greasy fingers on the turbo button without pressing the shot button until he was right on the rim.

You must not turbo when you get a cross over on a defender and earn a step or 2, you go and press the shot button to allow the shot animation weather it be a lay up, dunk, or pull up be played out.

This game is run on pre loads, that is how you are able to get those sweet animations. they do not happen if you think you are about to have total control of the player. You have to give up a bit to get the most of your sim craving.

[Giants4Natic]

Re: Great video depicting 2k's totally flawed AI

so basically ur admitting that the user is punished for utilizing extra speed after they went thru the work to get themselves into open space? That's not sports, thats BS. It's not like in football, where using turbo/sprint brings the ballcarrier into a line of defenders BEFORE a hole presents itself. That's basically saying to the CPU "ur out of position and they're faster than you, so here's some magic morph juice to get back into position". That's BS.

No it is not BS it is VG

Video Games

If you did all the work to get by him then you used your god given ability with your fingers to get by the guy.

A $60 A.I is not going to be intelligent enough to overcome a human skilled player unless it gets a boost.

If you think that a $60 game is going to give you what you went up against in the courts or what you see on tv in real life then that is where you went wrong.

[Cynical]

Re: Great video depicting 2k's totally flawed AI

so basically ur admitting that the user is punished for utilizing extra speed after they went thru the work to get themselves into open space? That's not sports, thats BS. It's not like in football, where using turbo/sprint brings the ballcarrier into a line of defenders BEFORE a hole presents itself. That's basically saying to the CPU "ur out of position and they're faster than you, so here's some magic morph juice to get back into position". That's BS.

There is no logical reason in my eyes, why pressing turbo slows a player down. its dumb that this happens.

i just tested this. i used iso and got a player out of position and and pressed turbo to motor passed him, got a bump. w/out turbo i stayed still and let the defender shade me and pressed the stick forward(slowly jogging) and went right passed him.

it seemed like the absence of effort yeilds more rewards.

It looked real unrealistic. it feels like a cheese honestly.