Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

[Tomba]

Hey all! Tomba here

I've been able to find out a something very cool in regards to how the game works with all the editing abilities we have for tailoring gameplay to our liking. Everyone knows by now what we can tweak, edit and eliminate, but I'll do an overview of what's there:

1)Player Attributes - Which has player ratings,abilites(which is boosting)player tendencies,player hotspots and player signature moves
2)Gameplay Sliders
3)Coaching Profiles

Now all of these combined undoubtingly are suposed to work together. My friends... THEY DO NOT. The simple truth is that with so many things being able to be edited you'd THINK that the game would play without falter...

In playing the game, making sliders for the game I've been able to see how this game actually handles all the ratings, tendencies and gameplay settings at default and then from personal adjustment.

Now, I was asked by Paul Pierce to aid him with his roster. He had two specific things he needed help with. One. Coaching profiles and TWO. Player Hotspots. Hotspots I admittingly I didn't want to do, so I got him to let me do SIG Moves! (Yay). I mention this, because if it was for this I would have never been put on to the coaching profiles and my findings within the coaching profile area.

First things first. Player ratings, abilities, tendencies and hot spots are already a TON of data for the computer to be trying to implement well. When we then add Gameplay Sliders and Coaching Profiles it adds even more that the computer has to end up rendering into accurate animations and results.

So... If we have all this rating information trying to be dealth with there is bound to be errors, hiccups and in general herky jerky gameplay. Pretty much making what we think to be perfect... IMPERFECT.

I have a bit of a solution and something that I've now spent tons of playtesting with to finally feel confident with that I feel the community should be filled in on...

If ratings are dealth with to the finest of even/odd numbers 54's,65's,72's 83's or 91's(number that are freely given to players ratings etc) then Gameplay sliders and coaching profiles CAN NOT have these given to them and need to have solid,easier numbers for the computer to generate better results with what is there for the players individual ratings.

This means that for Coaching profiles SPECIFICALLY the numbering should be nothing but these...

Coaching profiles with numbering like this
0,25,50,75,100

meaning no 3's,14's 27's,34's,49's.51's etc etc

EVEN numbers for Coaching profiles make it smoother. Anything with an odd number screw up the mix between player ratings player tendencies etc.

Call me crazy but it's pretty amazing right now. I always felt that 2k12 was good out of the box even all the player speed stuff I did on 2k9 and 2k10 didn't have to be done this year or last that much aside from the centers moving very sluggishly.

I'd like it if you guys can try this out for yourselves. These will be in Paul Pierces vtcrb rated roster completely done so that you will have them for use right off the bat. I will release the actual numbers for reg users who feel they'd like to use them individually as well, but remember coaching profiles ADD speed they add additional boosts etc so having them te way I have them set up allows for better working sliders etc (um esp mine lol)

Below are just the numbers for the Sixers and Bobcats that you'd have to enter in for their coaching profiles top to bottom.

Sixers
100,50,50,100,25,75,0,0,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50 50,50,50,50
Bobcats
25,50,50,25,50,100,0,0,25,50,50,50,25,50,75,50,25, 75,50,50,50,

So with that...

[Jukeman]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

Hey all! Tomba here

I've been able to find out a something very cool in regards to how the game works with all the editing abilities we have for tailoring gameplay to our liking. Everyone knows by now what we can tweak, edit and eliminate, but I'll do an overview of what's there:

1)Player Attributes - Which has player ratings,abilites(which is boosting)player tendencies,player hotspots and player signature moves
2)Gameplay Sliders
3)Coaching Profiles

Now all of these combined undoubtingly are suposed to work together. My friends... THEY DO NOT. The simple truth is that with so many things being able to be edited you'd THINK that the game would play without falter...

In playing the game, making sliders for the game I've been able to see how this game actually handles all the ratings, tendencies and gameplay settings at default and then from personal adjustment.

Now, I was asked by Paul Pierce to aid him with his roster. He had two specific things he needed help with. One. Coaching profiles and TWO. Player Hotspots. Hotspots I admittingly I didn't want to do, so I got him to let me do SIG Moves! (Yay). I mention this, because if it was for this I would have never been put on to the coaching profiles and my findings within the coaching profile area.

First things first. Player ratings, abilities, tendencies and hot spots are already a TON of data for the computer to be trying to implement well. When we then add Gameplay Sliders and Coaching Profiles it adds even more that the computer has to end up rendering into accurate animations and results.

So... If we have all this rating information trying to be dealth with there is bound to be errors, hiccups and in general herky jerky gameplay. Pretty much making what we think to be perfect... IMPERFECT.

I have a bit of a solution and something that I've now spent tons of playtesting with to finally feel confident with that I feel the community should be filled in on...

If ratings are dealth with to the finest of even/odd numbers 54's,65's,72's 83's or 91's(number that are freely given to players ratings etc) then Gameplay sliders and coaching profiles CAN NOT have these given to them and need to have solid,easier numbers for the computer to generate better results with what is there for the players individual ratings.

This means that for Coaching profiles SPECIFICALLY the numbering should be nothing but these...

Coaching profiles with numbering like this
0,25,50,75,100

meaning no 3's,14's 27's,34's,49's.51's etc etc

EVEN numbers for Coaching profiles make it smoother. Anything with an odd number screw up the mix between player ratings player tendencies etc.

Call me crazy but it's pretty amazing right now. I always felt that 2k12 was good out of the box even all the player speed stuff I did on 2k9 and 2k10 didn't have to be done this year or last that much aside from the centers moving very sluggishly.

I'd like it if you guys can try this out for yourselves. These will be in Paul Pierces vtcrb rated roster completely done so that you will have them for use right off the bat. I will release the actual numbers for reg users who feel they'd like to use them individually as well, but remember coaching profiles ADD speed they add additional boosts etc so having them te way I have them set up allows for better working sliders etc (um esp mine lol)

Below are just the numbers for the Sixers and Bobcats that you'd have to enter in for their coaching profiles top to bottom.

Sixers
100,50,50,100,25,75,0,0,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50 50,50,50,50
Bobcats
25,50,50,25,50,100,0,0,25,50,50,50,25,50,75,50,25, 75,50,50,50,

So with that...

Good stuff bro!

I used to always go by those numbers when dealing with sliders and coach profiles.

[Tomba]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

Good stuff bro!

I used to always go by those numbers when dealing with sliders and coach profiles.

True thats why many of the sliders Ive done always had those numbers i just never thought of it in this way before with coach profiles.

I'm hoping to get feedback from peeps to see if I got the teams right

[Tomba]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

Update...

I think Im going to go with a even more drastic cut

0,50,100

Where zero REALLY cuts down on whatever it is you want it to cut
Where 50 has no effect and plays off the ratings and is almist a "DEFAULT"
and
Where 100 completely FORCES whatever you want to happen... HAPPEN.

I saw some instances where plays were like "wondering" what to do still this just automatically reduces that...

[DaTwolves21]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

Sorry, I'm a little skeptical about these. Not calling you crazy but if this formula was true, why would 2k not implement these for better gameplay. Also exactly what am I looking for that's any different from anything else.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

I think you came to one correct conclusion and one incorrect conclusion.

Correct: Setting certain sliders in Coach Profiles to 0 or 100 gives you absolute control over the player's actions and is more "clearly" defined.

Incorrect: There is something wrong with settings that are anywhere between 1 and 99.

There's simply no objective data to back up a claim that setting these sliders at 19 or 41 or 67 won't produce the intended result. I've tested Coach Profiles extensively as well and have gotten the desired effect consistently by making 10-20 point changes between 1 and 99.

Certain Coach Profile settings have a much greater impact at 0 or 100 than others as well, but that doesn't make it any more/less correct to use those values. Just my two cents (and I have tested most, but not all, of the Coach Profile sliders at 0 and 100 in CPU/CPU and Coach Mode to see the effects).

[Tomba]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

Sorry, I'm a little skeptical about these. Not calling you crazy but if this formula was true, why would 2k not implement these for better gameplay. Also exactly what am I looking for that's any different from anything else.

You've been around so don't take this negatively


I you don't believe my work by now then I dont know what i can say to convince you otherwise.

I dont usually post stuff without ever testing it myself and even then its pretty extensive as i JUST focus on the edit itself and nothing else so its very scrutinized.

That said. When did you EVER see a game company implement anything perfect. Its a KNOWN fact that EA and 2k have put out wonky roster ratings etc in their product year after year. You saying why they didn't just implement that in is literally saying madden 12 is fine. and mlb 2k11 was fine etc etc and the thousands of users here complaining about those games are just seeing placebo effect. The reason why most developer dont put time and effort into things like this is because they try to work on their testers with just game breaking bugs not fine tuning etc. The fine tuning we see this year with NBA 2k12 happens from newer animations being brought in that's it.

As far as what this edit of the coaching profiles does is HOPEFULLY make that addditional line of determination code be shorter thus making the game smoother and more streamlined in it's animational decisions.

Please try it for yourself first before pre judging. All I see on this board lately is guys trying to diss each other when it should be a community trying to HELP each other. This year I'm not doing a roster for NBA2k12 I rather help out.

And with that...

[Tomba]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

I think you came to one correct conclusion and one incorrect conclusion.

Correct: Setting certain sliders in Coach Profiles to 0 or 100 gives you absolute control over the player's actions and is more "clearly" defined.

Incorrect: There is something wrong with settings that are anywhere between 1 and 99.

There's simply no objective data to back up a claim that setting these sliders at 19 or 41 or 67 won't produce the intended result. I've tested Coach Profiles extensively as well and have gotten the desired effect consistently by making 10-20 point changes between 1 and 99.

Certain Coach Profile settings have a much greater impact at 0 or 100 than others as well, but that doesn't make it any more/less correct to use those values. Just my two cents (and I have tested most, but not all, of the Coach Profile sliders at 0 and 100 in CPU/CPU and Coach Mode to see the effects).

But there's an issue with that...

ODD integers.

For example. When I edited out speed in NBA 2k9 and 2k10. I learned that running animations were locked at certain numbers. ALL started at even numbers. 65 70 75 80 so on and so on.

With coaching profiles at even 60 65 and 70 i am lead to believe that it INTERUPTS the game engines "thought process" into making it struggle with what we input as a user for control and then expect the cpu to do.

Im trying to REALLY capture a smooth experience by completely killing as much "middle man" code/calculating as possible.

[DaTwolves21]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

I respect your answer, your work speaks for itself. I'm just amazed that we the consumer that don't work for 2k, make a better product then they do.

[qpc123]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

I tryed this on my classic rosters and had fairly good results. I would say however that a 0,50,100 scale probably won't work(for me at least) since that is too drastic for some situations. As an example the fast break slider for the 96 Sonics, I set it to 100 and boy did the run and gun on me they scored 30 fast break points. While the Sonics were coached by George Karl and had an uptempo style they weren't all fast break all the time like the D'Antoni Suns. However, Seattle would get out on the break at a clip higher than a 50 setting gives you, hence I think the 0,25,50,75,100 set may work better in certain areas. Lastly thanks, getting any help on coaching sliders is hard around here and I appreciate the effort you are putting into this.

[volstopfan14]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

Will you be posting every team's settings on here?

[Tomba]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

I tryed this on my classic rosters and had fairly good results. I would say however that a 0,50,100 scale probably won't work(for me at least) since that is too drastic for some situations. As an example the fast break slider for the 96 Sonics, I set it to 100 and boy did the run and gun on me they scored 30 fast break points. While the Sonics were coached by George Karl and had an uptempo style they weren't all fast break all the time like the D'Antoni Suns. However, Seattle would get out on the break at a clip higher than a 50 setting gives you, hence I think the 0,25,50,75,100 set may work better in certain areas. Lastly thanks, getting any help on coaching sliders is hard around here and I appreciate the effort you are putting into this.

Catch me in my Mercedes, bumpin' Ice, Ice Baby

Cool. I'm trying out the drastic setting as a secondary option but Im also finding i have to TWEAK my sliders too

I'll be working on this for quite a bit tonight

[nogster]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

I agree with the coaching profile numbers being straight even.
But I dont agree with the limited scale of 0-50-100.
Ive seen desired results by adjusting a 5-10 clicks on certain profiles.

ie: def pressure.
I played a team with def pressure at 40. and it is too easy to pull up for open jumpers. the players were too loose on D.
raised it to 65 and you could clearly see they were defending tighter.

[Tomba]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

Will you be posting every team's settings on here?

Yes in a day or two

[Tomba]

Re: Tomba's Coaching Profiles Formulas

I agree with the coaching profile numbers being straight even.
But I dont agree with the limited scale of 0-50-100.
Ive seen desired results by adjusting a 5-10 clicks on certain profiles.

ie: def pressure.
I played a team with def pressure at 40. and it is too easy to pull up for open jumpers. the players were too loose on D.
raised it to 65 and you could clearly see they were defending tighter.

True however there is hesitation between animations getting to this so a rating of 75 or 100 would be better. Although albeit 100 might be too much but its sometimes what it's gotta be. You I agree on the run plays being at 100 and you said it yourself in one of your posts on here that it wont DETRIMENTALLY effect the game into hyper warp zone etc lol

So my original thought is still to have them 0,25,50,75,100. If at all anything the player tendencies should KICK IN at whatever odd or even numbers they're working from.

Problem is How am I going to make this 0.25,50,75,100 scale work?