Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

[Big FN Deal]

Of all the new features added to next-gen Madden, I think DPP has me the most excited about Madden going forward. However, I am not really sure if DPP is going to eventually replace certain player ratings or continue to compliment them.

With all the controversy surrounding Madden player ratings every year, I think it would make sense to remove all but a few current player ratings and expand on DPP. Speed, acceleration, agility, jump and strength could be the only traditional ratings left and they could display applicable combine data, not current numerical ratings.

After watching some videos and reading about scouting/evaluating NFL players, DPP, especially player traits, seems like a much better way to simulate and differentiate NFL players in Madden than the current ratings system.

Do you think, taking into consideration DPP being such a heavily marketed and touted feature for M12, it is the successor of Madden player ratings or not and why?

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

Knowing EA, 2 years from now they will completely take out DPP and say their data proves a lot of people didn't like it.

Prime example:

Pro Tak

Highly marketed for Madden 10 but now they don't want to even associate their names with it.

Prime example # 2

Run block footwork and Run block strength suppose to have replaced Run Block

Pass block footwork and pass block strength suppose to have replaced Pass block

Elusiveness and truck suppose to have replaced break tackle.

Throw short, medium and deep suppose to have replaced throw accuracy.

All those ratings suppose to have been replaced 4 years ago, but yet are still in the game because they were too lazy to re-code their engine.

Heck they can't even decide whether or not they want to keep the QB evade stick or not. One year it is in, the next year it isn't. They have been flip flopping on that issue for the past 6 years now.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

Knowing EA, 2 years from now they will completely take out DPP and say their data proves a lot of people didn't like it.

Prime example:

Pro Tak

Highly marketed for Madden 10 but now they don't want to even associate their names with it.

Prime example # 2

Run block footwork and Run block strength suppose to have replaced Run Block

Pass block footwork and pass block strength suppose to have replaced Pass block

Elusiveness and truck suppose to have replaced break tackle.

Throw short, medium and deep suppose to have replaced throw accuracy.

All those ratings suppose to have been replaced 4 years ago, but yet are still in the game because they were too lazy to re-code their engine.

Heck they can't even decide whether or not they want to keep the QB evade stick or not. One year it is in, the next year it isn't. They have been flip flopping on that issue for the past 6 years now.

All valid points and good examples. However, I think some stuff you listed has actually taken over for the other things as promised but the old stuff still visually remains.

That's kind of what lead me to post this thread because I can imagine some player ratings becoming irrelevant if DPP is expanded but still being displayed. For example, having a WR with 99 CTH but a "drops open passes" trait, little confidence and inconsistent, doesn't make much sense. lol

[carnalnirvana]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

yeah, i hope they continue with this, let every position have at least 5 unique traits

right now its really only the QB's that have detailed technique/tendencies

i still say they need a priority system so the main guys get maximum touches per game...

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

Yeah, they need a touches rating or priority rating. That way each WR, TE, RB, FB will be ranked. The higher the number, that would be the person the QB would look to throw the ball to first.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

yeah, i hope they continue with this, let every position have at least 5 unique traits

right now its really only the QB's that have detailed technique/tendencies

i still say they need a priority system so the main guys get maximum touches per game...

I agree with there being more unique position traits and actually think that could also address the "touches" issue. If a "targets" trait was added to the QB position with "primary", "secondary", "TE" or "spreads the ball", that could work. Also, that could change based on how the game was going with QB's targeting the hot receiver and backup QBs coming in targeting "secondary"/bench receivers they practice with.

[KBLover]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

For example, having a WR with 99 CTH but a "drops open passes" trait, little confidence and inconsistent, doesn't make much sense. lol

Why does that not make sense?

99 CTH means he's got perhaps the best hands in the game, but if he's fearing a big hit because some LB crushed him on that slant, he might get alligator arms, or take his eyes of the ball for a moment, leading to some drops. Plus, it's not like he'll drop ALL the passes - it's just a negative modifier to his catch and/or CIT rating.

Same for inconsistency. That means he doesn't play up to that 99 every time. Maybe he's got the Desean Jackson syndrome - you know, blow up one week, go silent the next. Plus consistency impacts ALL ratings, not just the ones he's good at. Same for confidence, which is the hot/cold meter, basically. A hot streak/cold streak impacts ALL ratings.

[KBLover]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

i still say they need a priority system so the main guys get maximum touches per game...

Bring back the IMPortance rating, and have it mean just this. Higher IMPortance means the QB/team will try to get this guy the ball a lot. Then have QB traits like Favorite Target: HB and Spreads Passes: No

A guy that doesn't spread the ball will have highest importance get a lot of the touches. A guy that does throws to whoever is open/best target. Favorite Target can help skew this - and if they brought the morale system back, maybe the WR would get mad because Flacco loves throwing to Rice all the time, etc.

Or, better, have IMP be a changing rating based on team's tendencies. The more important a player is in the team's weak to weak scheme, the higher the rating goes. Opposition could then avoid this player or center on him, etc.

[at23steelers]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

What bothers me about DPP is that if my WR for example drops one pass, then it he is labeled as "drops open passes." It should be more of throughout the game. It's way too highly sensitive.

[KBLover]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

What bothers me about DPP is that if my WR for example drops one pass, then it he is labeled as "drops open passes." It should be more of throughout the game. It's way too highly sensitive.

I think it depends. I've had drops and not immediately saw that. I think this is an area where confidence (or was it consistency) comes in. Just like I have a hard time knocking down the DPP of someone like Brady even if I'm after him all game. Meanwhile, it took 2 sacks to rattle Colt McCoy and, as long as I didn't let him get into a rhythm, he was flustered all game.

Heck, if it's someone who already tucks and runs - it might take just one sack, then he's running even before DPP kicks in, THEN his DPP drops for that aspect.

There's some kind of determining factor in there to where some guys are quite as sensitive, though many are.

[ernestoRIP]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

Love DPP...needs some tweaking, but it makes the game so much more alive.

They just need to find a way to tweak and expand DPP and incorporate it in to end-of-the-season progression for franchise. Players should have ceilings for ratings but it should be up to the coach (i.e. player) to develop them to that, especially skill positions. Especially QBs...would love to see them progress or regress based on how well you play with them, vice some preset potential meter.

To add another dimension they really need to have dynamic coaches. As a player, you should be able to create yourself as a coach and start with certain strengths (and weaknesses), and over time, be able to increase based on performance. Kind of like an RPG, but as it relates to franchise "coaching/GM". Coaching in the game now is so dead and just irrelevant to franchise mode, which is so far from the truth for the real NFL. Some coaches should get playoff performer tags too, where their teams play better in the postseason, or even have the Marty Schottenheimer tag where your team plays worse in the postseason or "chokes". Need to find a way to do this, EA. Not that hard...just some coding and ratings adjustments.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

Why does that not make sense?

99 CTH means he's got perhaps the best hands in the game, but if he's fearing a big hit because some LB crushed him on that slant, he might get alligator arms, or take his eyes of the ball for a moment, leading to some drops. Plus, it's not like he'll drop ALL the passes - it's just a negative modifier to his catch and/or CIT rating.

Same for inconsistency. That means he doesn't play up to that 99 every time. Maybe he's got the Desean Jackson syndrome - you know, blow up one week, go silent the next. Plus consistency impacts ALL ratings, not just the ones he's good at. Same for confidence, which is the hot/cold meter, basically. A hot streak/cold streak impacts ALL ratings.

I definitely understand what you are saying and I considered that at first. However, in my example, it doesn't seem logical watching games of that receiver, dropping multiple passes from either the "drop open passes" trait and/or from being inconsistent and still rating/determining him to have great hands.

To be clear, I am not an advocate for stats/performance in Madden determining numeric ratings or progression/regression. However, using DPP to represent players on field tendencies/habits instead of ratings and allowing player progression/regression to be mostly about affecting those tendencies/habits, is the way to go, imo.

I would much rather eliminate the catch rating and have DPP account for things like yes or no for "catches with hands", "catches with body", aggressive/ideal/conservative for "playing the ball" and paranoid/timid/average/oblivious for "senses contact" (ie anticipating a big hit). Of course that can be expanded on even more but I hope you see what I am getting at.

Those examples added with the current receiver traits pretty much account for catch, catch in traffic and spectacular catch ratings but better, imo. Most receivers in the NFL can catch so using DPP to differentiate various actions in certain situations is much better than having seemingly arbitrary numeric ratings, imo.

[RogueHominid]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

I really like the feature. I actually hope they don't do too much more with it. I'd just like to see some of its implementation changed.

For example, I'd like to see QBs who get flustered under pressure choose smarter escape angles than running right into my LDE, which happens a bit too often.

I'd also like to see the ones where DBs play/don't play the ball conservatively tied more clearly to route-jumping animations when appropriate.

Some of the hot streaks on skill position players and, say, linebackers I don't understand. Are they more likely to beat you in coverage, to hit the hole?

Here's something I'd like to see implemented: if a CPU player at a key position is on a cold streak, I'd like to see a gameplan adjustment that reflects that. Like if the CPU QB is on a cold streak, it'd be great to see the CPU turn to the run game. Or maybe a benching. And for guys at other positions who are on a cold streaks, perhaps an occasional benching.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

For example, I'd like to see QBs who get flustered under pressure choose smarter escape angles than running right into my LDE, which happens a bit too often.

Yeah Ball Carrier Vision in Madden 12 is bad. It was much better last year in Madden 11 when the QB scrambled. This year Madden 12 borrowed that BS running directly into a tackle logic from the NCAA team. Because that is exactly how they run in NCAA series, directly into a tackle or sack.

[KBLover]

Re: Is DPP The Evolution Of Madden Player Ratings?

I definitely understand what you are saying and I considered that at first. However, in my example, it doesn't seem logical watching games of that receiver, dropping multiple passes from either the "drop open passes" trait and/or from being inconsistent and still rating/determining him to have great hands.

Again, I don't see what's nonsensical about that.

If a player plays up to his ability and is focused - he has the best hands in the game. 99 CTH. Just like when Desean Jackson "feels like" playing, his is fearsome. When he doesn't...well, just look at the past few weeks.

Should DJax be rated for crap despite his raw physical abilities? Or does he just lack mental discipline and is a distraction/gets detracted?

If other things creep into his mind, he "doesn't feel up to it", or whatever else, you might get something less than that.

It is perfectly logical, imo. A player has a peak level. Whether not he's there depends on other factors, some of which are from the player himself. Sounds like real life, imo.

Ratings represent the player at 100% mentally and physically.

Hot indicates he might be playing "over his head" for a while, or is psyched up, etc, so he gives 115%. Cold means he's "thinking too much" or just "off" and isn't quite his usual self - maybe 85%

If a WR got whacked or one just slipped off his fingertips, maybe it's eating at him. He's not completely focused on the game, but is remembering that last drop. He doesn't have a "short memory" and maybe he's getting antsy or trying to "speed up" instead of "letting the game come to him", so he makes more mistakes. Now he has "Drops Open Passes: Yes" due to this. So maybe he'll catch more like an 80.

Until he has success and gets his mojo back. The team see's he's getting down and he gets some easy screens and such to get his confidence back. Then he snatches one for a TD on a nice hitch route. DPP goes up Drops Open Passes: No again, now he's back to 99 CTH.

It's like Torrey Smith. He dropped crap all game, team picks up him, Flacco goes to him again, he gets the game winner. If that game went on, I bet Torrey felt a LOT better about himself.

To me its dynamic and alive and makes plenty of sense.

All of those things you want are still represented by a modifier to the catch rating. Most WR can catch, but not all catch at the same rate, same kinds of balls, etc. I guy who catches with his body is like a 70-75 CTH player - too hard, and his hands can't "catch up". Contact goes through his body to the ball, popping it out, etc.

Having a "sense contact" and such would be nice to have DPP modifiers for. But CIT captures that base ability of a WR in this area. DJax always worries about getting whacked, but Megatron doesn't give a rip. Larry Fitzgerald just overpowers defenders, and Andre Johnson is just a man. Same with Boldin - those guys have high CIT at their base. They should. Now if there's a difference in that ability, throw on the DPP.

I guess I don't see the need to remove numbers when you think of them as not just numbers but summations of all the things you mention that scouts would indicate (plus...scouts use numbers - they have a grading scale).