Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

I'll be happy if they can make chipping realistic because the series has always been an embarrasment in regards to that.

Totally agree with this! The chipping feels broken in this game and it really makes the game take a hit. I wind up playing pitch shots where I'd ordinarily play a chip shot a lot of times. I don't dare try to play an uphill chip shot in Tiger 06 through 12 because no matter what club you try to play the chip shot with, you're going to scuff it and it's not going to deliver the result one would expect from a chip shot. Even downhill chip shots behave like you're in another universe.

If the chip shots have a believable trajectory in Tiger 13, it will be a good barometer for how realistic a simulation it will play. This also applies to fairway wood trajectory. I still can't believe that I can hit a 1-iron with a higher trajectory than a 5-wood in this game!?

And they better offer full customization of DLC courses for your career mode so I can use any course for any tourney. That has to be offered at the very least for me to buy it (well that and playoff holes and realistic pin placements). Last year was a joke where you could only use a DLC course twice in a 10 year career.

Agreed again... they do need to figure out a way to let customers get more mileage out of their DLC purchases in career mode. However, I find the career mode play so uncompelling that I'm still trying to finish my first season. It just feels like I'm playing against a spreadsheet on a golf course in which I'm the only one playing. I want to see other golfers in action ahead of and behind me, and have the *option* to play with AI golfers (skipping and fast-forwarding their shots at my demand).

[Zinger]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

I agree with many of the scathing comments in this thread. This game disappoints every year. Last year, despite the fact that I would love to have played Augusta, I didn't buy the game for the first time in years because of all the negative feedback. I'm very glad I didn't. And this game won a best sports game award??? Were there no other entries? If this game is better than MLB 11 The Show (just for starters) I'm a scratch golfer. The main problem as I see it is that none of the developers appears to be a keen golfer. How can we expect a realistic sim from people who don't care about golf or even, apparently, understand it? Can't they get one of the former Links team to join them? Gameplay, presentation, atmosphere, commentary, crowd animations, accurate stats, implementation of proper PGA rules - so much needs to be improved. As someone has said, extraordinary that golf of all games, surely one of the less difficult games to program and one of the first to be well conveyed on PCs, is now so badly served. There are promising signs this year, but then there always are and it never lives up to the hype. Ho hum.

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

If this game is better than MLB 11 The Show (just for starters) I'm a scratch golfer.

I own both games and Tiger 12 doesn't hold a candle to MLB 11: The Show, in terms of modeling their respective sports. I can't imagine how this game would be deserving of any 'sports' game of the year award where NCAA Football 2012, Madden 2012, FIFA 2012, PES Soccer 2012, NHL 2012, and especially NBA 2K12 are its competition. These games are all better at replicating their respective sports.

Having said the above, I still play Tiger 12 the most. Why? I just enjoy playing golf on a video game console the most. If Tiger 12 was as successful at duplicating the feel of golf as MLB 11: The Show does baseball, I wouldn't have a life

The main problem as I see it is that none of the developers appears to be a keen golfer. How can we expect a realistic sim from people who don't care about golf or even, apparently, understand it?

I know they've had scratch golfers on the team. One of the development team was actually a teammate of Tiger at Stanford. I can't recall whether he's still with the team or not. Certainly the product we're seeing seems to indicate only a moderate knowledge of golf, but I have to wonder how bent they are on creating a simulation? I think they're making money with the game succeeding as an arcade game, with a few simulation crumbs for those of us willing to ratchet it up a bit.

There are promising signs this year, but then there always are and it never lives up to the hype. Ho hum.

The signs are more promising than ever for Tiger 13. It's the first mention I've ever heard of a new swing mechanic. That to me is a more important development than the addition of Augusta National. If this mechanic is indeed reliant on swing tempo, and scales itself to the level of difficulty, it will be a major step forward. I just hope they demonstrate the same commitment to understanding the trajectory of fairway wood shots and chip shots!?

[1Rose]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

I just want to scream at this game sometimes.

It's like, golf should be the easiest sport to get right. It's not like football, baseball or basketball where there are so many other variables.

I would love to be a part of the dev team. Dead serious. I've played golf all my life, Father was a professional, I played in college and have studied the game all my life. Not saying I have the ultimate knowledge of golf, but it seems like this series has no vision. It's like they just throw crap in so they can put something flashy on the back of the box.

This game can't figure out if it wants to recreate the experience of watching a golf broadcast, or like you're the actual player. Personally, I would prefer it to be like I'm watching it on TV.

Obviously there are so many other things wrong with this game. I have a laundry list of suggestions and opinions on things that should be done, adding to what I had posted a while back on my blog. For those who want to read it, I still have it up.

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

I just want to scream at this game sometimes.

It's like, golf should be the easiest sport to get right. It's not like football, baseball or basketball where there are so many other variables.

I would love to be a part of the dev team. Dead serious. I've played golf all my life, Father was a professional, I played in college and have studied the game all my life. Not saying I have the ultimate knowledge of golf, but it seems like this series has no vision. It's like they just throw crap in so they can put something flashy on the back of the box.

This game can't figure out if it wants to recreate the experience of watching a golf broadcast, or like you're the actual player. Personally, I would prefer it to be like I'm watching it on TV.

Obviously there are so many other things wrong with this game. I have a laundry list of suggestions and opinions on things that should be done, adding to what I had posted a while back on my blog. For those who want to read it, I still have it up.

Have you ever bothered to contact the Dev Team at Tiburon directly or indirectly? You can contact them by posting all the things you think are wrong with the game in the EA Tiger console forums. They DO read them and they DO consider the feedback carefully. I don't disagree with you on some of your points, especially about what the game is trying to be. Personally, if it has the PGA TOUR license, it should give users everything possible that you would see in a PGA TOUR Tournament. Unfortunately, the casual user market prefers the arcade style of play and that factors in to many of EA's decisions which I take exception to for the following reason: I have told them that if they build it (a compelling simulation PGA TOUR Golf simulation), they (the hardcore simulation fans who sit on the sidelines every year and pass on the game) WILL COME. So many times they try to do this and pull back because they are afraid of backlash from users that it is too hard. They need to have the cajones to build a comprehensive game with gameplay options for all skill levels and let the chips fall where they may. The game can't possibly fail if you appeal to as many users as possible.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

I just want to scream at this game sometimes.

It's like, golf should be the easiest sport to get right. It's not like football, baseball or basketball where there are so many other variables.

I would love to be a part of the dev team. Dead serious. I've played golf all my life, Father was a professional, I played in college and have studied the game all my life. Not saying I have the ultimate knowledge of golf, but it seems like this series has no vision. It's like they just throw crap in so they can put something flashy on the back of the box.

This game can't figure out if it wants to recreate the experience of watching a golf broadcast, or like you're the actual player. Personally, I would prefer it to be like I'm watching it on TV.

Obviously there are so many other things wrong with this game. I have a laundry list of suggestions and opinions on things that should be done, adding to what I had posted a while back on my blog. For those who want to read it, I still have it up.

That's really the problem though, that it's a laundry list of fundamental issues. I fully realize golf games have never done a great job of focusing on the little things (especially short game related) but the only thing that has really advanced over the past few decades have been graphics. Otherwise we're still doing the same 2/3-click mechanic that tries to produce a straight ball flight of canned trajectory most of the time. Your average weekend hacker might think that's all the pros do but they're constantly working the ball and have their strengths and weaknesses too.

I know I've said this before in this forum but I really think it bears repeating considering how other sports games (The Show, NBA 2k, Madden) including the weaker ones all seem to be more steadily acknowledging that there are characteristics that separate players and give them their respective identities. The ratings in Tiger just don't produce that kind individuality. You may be longer or shorter or spray the ball more or have a better chance of sticking a flop close but it's the same fundamental game that we were playing in Links and Jack Nicklaus games in the 90s.

Some of the tour guys lean on one shot shape and just happen to do it very well. A guy like Rocco Mediate produced a very nice career with a big draw but not much ability to work the ball and many other players are in the same boat (an aside: it's absurd that the ideal shot path in Tiger is a straight ball - that's just not what pros do). Some guys play big high power fades, some keep the ball low, some like Mickelson have ridiculously high trajectories. Even guys who are fantastic ball strikers who pride themselves on being able to work the ball have a shot type that is their strength and others that aren't quite as precise/reliable even if better than most.

The game around the greens in Tiger is equally overly simplified. Some guys are great lag putters, some are a mess within a few feet of the hole, some are consistent but rarely spectacular. Some are great sand players if you give them a normal lie but make it a little funky and they struggle. How about some of the weirder but accepted shots around greens. Blading a sand wedge from the edge of the first cut isn't even in the game but it's almost indispensable in those situations. So is a little pop with a hybrid from just into the rough. Not every player on tour is comfortable with a huge flop shot and a guy like Mickelson should have vastly more latitude than even the guys who are capable of the shot.

I could go on and on and I'm sure you could too but a simple if detailed message to the devs isn't going to fix this game. It needs a fundamental reevaluation of what it is and what it wants to be going forward and if it's being marketed at the casual crowd then all is lost anyway.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

Have you ever bothered to contact the Dev Team at Tiburon directly or indirectly? You can contact them by posting all the things you think are wrong with the game in the EA Tiger console forums. They DO read them and they DO consider the feedback carefully. I don't disagree with you on some of your points, especially about what the game is trying to be. Personally, if it has the PGA TOUR license, it should give users everything possible that you would see in a PGA TOUR Tournament. Unfortunately, the casual user market prefers the arcade style of play and that factors in to many of EA's decisions which I take exception to for the following reason: I have told them that if they build it (a compelling simulation PGA TOUR Golf simulation), they (the hardcore simulation fans who sit on the sidelines every year and pass on the game) WILL COME. So many times they try to do this and pull back because they are afraid of backlash from users that it is too hard. They need to have the cajones to build a comprehensive game with gameplay options for all skill levels and let the chips fall where they may. The game can't possibly fail if you appeal to as many users as possible.

I agree with some of your points but contacting the Devs is one that's pointless. I agree you can easily make a mode which will make the arcade guys happy while having a simulation mode that will make the hardcore guys happy, that's what users options are for. They can be separated especially in video golf where the AI is not really an issue. And what gamer would get turned off by having as real as possible PGA simulation in terms of career mode and immersion factor.

It's like saying that 2K decides to turn NBA2k into NBA Jam so as to get the kiddies to buy. They simply put in a options that can make it as arcadey or real as possible. It's gives the gamer options like most other sports series. I never play HOF mode because it's too damn hard but does that turn me off of the game? No.

Anybody with a business sense knows widening your spectrum of gameplay will increase sales. Why the Devs would think the opposite is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sense. Are they completely thick? I tend to think it's more of a case of laziness and the Devs not really being big PGA fans which is pretty sad since they have the license.

As for contacting the devs to give input, it will fall on deaf ears. I've never seen a dev team lazier than these guys in not listening to the fanbase. Basic simulation gameplay improvemants like realistic pin placements and extra holes have been requested for years (and I mean years) and it's been ignored and it's not like we're asking for much. How hard can it be to fix the pins and give us playoff holes where all we would need is a caption on top saying what your opponent is doing on that hole as you play it? That's a minor fix at best but we can't even get that and I doubt it will be different this year. That would be acceptable if they don't have the pro in the game you are tied with. If you are in a playoff against a licensed pro like Tiger then there is no excuse not to have him right beside you as you play as they have that hardcoded in the game when you play skins or other modes with licensed pros. Simply inexcusable.

They just don't care as easily evidenced by the lack of patches (very minor ones at best once in awhile) after the game's release.

[Zinger]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

Anybody with a business sense knows widening your spectrum of gameplay will increase sales. Why the Devs would think the opposite is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sense. Are they completely thick? I tend to think it's more of a case of laziness and the Devs not really being big PGA fans which is pretty sad since they have the license.

I couldn't agree more. I've never known a sports game so determined to make the user play the way the developers want you to play rather than the way the user wants to play. Crazy, absolutely crazy.

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

I agree with some of your points but contacting the Devs is one that's pointless.

As for contacting the devs to give input, it will fall on deaf ears. I've never seen a dev team lazier than these guys in not listening to the fanbase. Basic simulation gameplay improvemants like realistic pin placements and extra holes have been requested for years (and I mean years) and it's been ignored and it's not like we're asking for much. How hard can it be to fix the pins and give us playoff holes where all we would need is a caption on top saying what your opponent is doing on that hole as you play it?

They just don't care as easily evidenced by the lack of patches (very minor ones at best once in awhile) after the game's release.

It is far from pointless. Numerous features in TW have come from ideas from user posts in the EA and other forums. I do agree with you regarding the pin placements and lack of playoffs. Also agree with you regarding the patches or lack thereof. But to suggest contacting the Devs is pointless is inaccurate at best.

[kickingguru]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

Let's face the facts... The core gameplay of the Tiger Series has not changed since TW 2002 when the analog swing was introduced. Online play has had no significant work on it since it was introduced in 2004 on the ps2. They package a bit different every year, but that is it.

To be fair, I do like the 2012 version. I would however enjoy a completely different online experience that really made you want to play online every day. Bring in some big ideas and work with them. Change the presentation model. Give us something different that says you really care about the franchise. Even if it flops, I would applaud the effort. Truly, it has seemed they used the copy, paste, and fix model for 8 years now.

Here is to true change...

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

I agree with some of your points but contacting the Devs is one that's pointless. As for contacting the devs to give input, it will fall on deaf ears. I've never seen a dev team lazier than these guys in not listening to the fanbase.

Seymour, I'd have to disagree with this assertion. I was told in private messages from developers that my suggestion in the public forum for what we now know as "Precision Putting" is what prompted them to act on it. Furthermore, I was told that "Presentation Camera" came in response to my suggeston on the public forum. I've also been told (again in PM's) that some of my ideas have been considered, but cannot be implemented due to technical or budgetary limitations.

The devs seem to have a tendency to not enter public debates in the forum because quite often the threads tend to degenerate into name-calling contests. I can assure you though that they do read and consider the feedback they get on the official EA Sports forum. They've responded, on point, to suggestions and criticisms I've offered in PM's that I honestly had no clue they would be paying any attention.

You're right about the inconsistency in realistic pin placements. They've been complained about for years, yet we still seem to see them in abundance. I sometimes wonder whether they do it to "trick the game out" and make it more difficult. If they designed the swing interface and physics right, this wouldn't be necessary. I'm hoping the new swing mechanic for Tiger 13 will negate the need to have these oppressive pin placements to held the course defend its honor.

You're also dead-on about the lack of playoffs. Even if we don't have the likeness of the golfer we're tied with in the game, they could let us play against the shot tracer of the AI golfer with whom we're tied! I think the reason we don't see either of the above is the rest of the field in career mode tournament play is... I strongly suspect, nothing more than a calculated spread sheet. The numbers are cooked, not played shot by shot. It would be more of a programming challenge than perhaps the development budget would allow to program each PGA player's tendencies into the game to have them play out shots, stroke by stroke for the player to see.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

Seymour, I'd have to disagree with this assertion. I was told in private messages from developers that my suggestion in the public forum for what we now know as "Precision Putting" is what prompted them to act on it. Furthermore, I was told that "Presentation Camera" came in response to my suggeston on the public forum. I've also been told (again in PM's) that some of my ideas have been considered, but cannot be implemented due to technical or budgetary limitations.

The devs seem to have a tendency to not enter public debates in the forum because quite often the threads tend to degenerate into name-calling contests. I can assure you though that they do read and consider the feedback they get on the official EA Sports forum. They've responded, on point, to suggestions and criticisms I've offered in PM's that I honestly had no clue they would be paying any attention.

You're right about the inconsistency in realistic pin placements. They've been complained about for years, yet we still seem to see them in abundance. I sometimes wonder whether they do it to "trick the game out" and make it more difficult. If they designed the swing interface and physics right, this wouldn't be necessary. I'm hoping the new swing mechanic for Tiger 13 will negate the need to have these oppressive pin placements to held the course defend its honor.

You're also dead-on about the lack of playoffs. Even if we don't have the likeness of the golfer we're tied with in the game, they could let us play against the shot tracer of the AI golfer with whom we're tied! I think the reason we don't see either of the above is the rest of the field in career mode tournament play is... I strongly suspect, nothing more than a calculated spread sheet. The numbers are cooked, not played shot by shot. It would be more of a programming challenge than perhaps the development budget would allow to program each PGA player's tendencies into the game to have them play out shots, stroke by stroke for the player to see.

I'm sure they listened to you on presentation cam but did they really need to get input for precison putting? It's not exactly a modern option. It was in Links 2003 and if I'm not mistaken in the TW PC version long before the console version. That should have been a basic option 10 years ago. I'm sure people were clamouring for it for years and it still took them a long time to do it. If they needed to be prodded for a few years into doing it then that's really sad. Probably more of a case of them purposely holding it back just to use it as "brand new option" as a selling feature for a newer version of TW when they felt they didn't have enough features to advertize. It's akin to Madden only letting you play as certain teams for years and then finally advertizing one year that "With the new Madden you can play as any team you want because we have finally listened to our fanbase"

As for the developement budget, I'm sure it cost a pretty penny to get the rights to the Masters and to hard code a stupid caddy into the game so the money was there for that. If they don't have the budget to institute a minor thing like simply telling us what the AI golfer has done on the extra hole (Even without a tracer. I'll take what I can get, I just want something to shoot for in the playoff hole with some basic info). I'm pretty sure they had that info the earlier PC versions because I remember seeing it years back.

Again if that was a budget constraint (and I know we are assuming this but that's a better excuse than them just not caring I guess) then the budget for any other sports game must be astronimical because of all the AI work they have to do than TW doesn't have to worry about.

As for the pins I doubt is to was to make the game artificially harder. The game on the highest skill level is pretty damn challenging. Carnival placements aren't necessary for 95% of the gamers. More of a case that it probably takes some work to do and they don't feel it's worth it because they don't find it important enough to deal with (pretty sad). Probably a third of the courses had the problem so if they wanted to trick up the course they should have done it for all of them.

Remember when Cog Hill (and it was DLC to add insult to injury) had no pin on the 9th or 10th hole? People complained like crazy and not even a simple patch to correct it from the Devs for something people actually paid extra for. Just pathetic.

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

I'm sure they listened to you on presentation cam but did they really need to get input for precison putting? It's not exactly a modern option. It was in Links 2003 and if I'm not mistaken in the TW PC version long before the console version. That should have been a basic option 10 years ago. I'm sure people were clamouring for it for years and it still took them a long time to do it. If they needed to be prodded for a few years into doing it then that's really sad.

I thought precision putting (fully proportional putting) should have been a given from the get-go, especially at the game's higher difficulty levels. But no, the mindset of the Tiger development teams over the years has been to avoid making the game too hard. I'm repeatedly being told that their user base wants a game that's easy to sit down a play. The multi-ranged putter interface (now known as "Classic Putting") was designed to make it easier for gamers to putt and avoid running putts way by the hole, or leaving them drastically short.

I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that my input was the only reason they offered precision putting, but I had been banging the drum for it in their forums consistently since the release of Tiger 06. Their private response to me about it in the run-up to the release of Tiger 10 included the fact that they were aware of my carrying the banner for it during that span. Others had registered their support for it there as well... I wasn't by myself.

As for the pins I doubt is to was to make the game artificially harder. The game on the highest skill level is pretty damn challenging. Carnival placements aren't necessary for 95% of the gamers. More of a case that it probably takes some work to do and they don't feel it's worth it because they don't find it important enough to deal with (pretty sad). Probably a third of the courses had the problem so if they wanted to trick up the course they should have done it for all of them.

It wouldn't take a whole lot of playtesting for a skilled gamer to identify problem pin placements. If the game is going to carry a PGA license, it should abide by the PGA's guidelines for pin placements. Many of the placements in the TW games over the years do not follow these guidelines.

Remember when Cog Hill (and it was DLC to add insult to injury) had no pin on the 9th or 10th hole? People complained like crazy and not even a simple patch to correct it from the Devs for something people actually paid extra for. Just pathetic.

Yep, this was an inexplicable situation for me, particularly since Cog Hill is one of my 3 favorite courses in the game!?

[itsmb8]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

I wonder if Dustin Johnson will be added this year to the roster ??

Dude, Dustin Johnson is my most favorite golfer so he better be in it

[globalbeats7]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

its going to take a huuuuge year for EA to get me to buy their golf game again.

they need to at the very least:

bring back TRUE AIM as in TW11 but improve camera follow ups
improve ball physics
make game more open ended
include playoffs
rid of carnival pin placements - been like 5yrs running now
add different swing styles
better atmosphere for PGA career
make PGA season actually feel like its worth something