Offsetting penalities?

[kirkdawg]

Has anyone seen offsetting penalties, or is this something that needs to be added? I'm really tired of seeing long runs called back because of a hold, yet my RB gets taken down by the facemask. Also, if there's a flag that comes down early in the play, the D can take a free shot at the QB without fear of roughing the passer.

[rynecandy]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

Would be nice to see but the game only recognizes the 1st penalty. It's a free pass for the other team to commit penalties.

[steelersfan77]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

Offsetting penalties? The engines EA sports use won't allow it and they show no effort when it comes to working on it. They haven't added the penalites that are in actual college football and one that is in, pass interference doesn't even work nor does it get called. The penalty and challenge system is broken. Next. Competition is much needed.

[ImmunityBow]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

Don't think so...

[PowerofRed25]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

They can't even figure out that defensive pass interference cannot occur behind the line of scrimmage, linemen can't be downfield on a forward pass and receivers cannot run out of bounds and come back in to catch the ball... you'll hope for offsetting penalties for a while.

[TDAWG89]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

Yea the penalty system really shows how messed up things are in this game, they can be fixed a little by sliders but there is a ton of work to be done.. helmet to helmet hits every other play, hands to the face, chop blocks, late hits out of bounds, hardly any booth reviews, interference, etc

[fistofrage]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

The PS2 had off-setting penalties. I think the PS1 had offesetting penalties, defensive holding, chain gangs, video preview of opponents, etc.

Hard to believe we had features 15 years ago that we don't have today.

People think Ancient Aliens built the pyramids.....Nah, its just lost knowledge and regression. Look no further than EA football for Exhibit A and how quickly knowledge can be lost and forgotten. When the Xbox 720 comes out, NCAA football will be even more bare bones than Bill Walsh College football circa 1991. Mark my words.

[PowerofRed25]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

Yea the penalty system really shows how messed up things are in this game, they can be fixed a little by sliders but there is a ton of work to be done.. helmet to helmet hits every other play, hands to the face, chop blocks, late hits out of bounds, hardly any booth reviews, interference, etc

Late hits out of bounds is the big one for me, because this happens constantly in the game.

But I mean, it is so ridiculous that even the penalties in the game are applied wrong or there is something glitched out about it. Like when the clock keeps running while the ref is announcing a penalty. Or in the case of pass interference, the only time I have ever been called for it was on slip screens behind the line of scrimmage. Or my personal favorite, the defense jumping offsides at the end of a half and the half or game just ending despite the penalty, which should extend the game one untimed down. It is a pretty huge problem.

[steelersfan77]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

I don't understand how adding penalties to the game which would probably require a few new animations would cost to much memory space. All this is part of the gameplay that should be the focus point for any sports game, simulation or arcade, yet a new penalty and challenge system continues to go untouched from year to year. Really wish this wasn't the only collegiant game I had to choose from. Sorry, that's pretty sad. I wish this thread wasn't ever created, sore topic.

[PowerofRed25]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

I don't understand how adding penalties to the game which would probably require a few new animations would cost to much memory space. All this is part of the gameplay that should be the focus point for any sports game, simulation or arcade, yet a new penalty and challenge system continues to go untouched from year to year. Really wish this wasn't the only collegiant game I had to choose from. Sorry, that's pretty sad. I wish this thread wasn't ever created, sore topic.

The problem with some of these penalties (like pass interference) is that it will require an entirely new game engine. The game engine EA has in there now just won't allow for the type of interaction to have realistic OPI/DPI. It's the same reason holding and clipping are essentially completely randomized penalties, there is just no way to have the individual 1 v 1 interaction with the engine in the game.

But things like late hits and that sort of thing should be incredibly easy to install, I mean it was in the game on the PS2, I can't believe it would be a difficult thing to add.

I'd also love to see celebrations back in the game, with the corresponding celebration penalties. I think it adds a lot to the game and if I want to have a huge celebration and just eat the 15 yards on the kickoff, I should have that choice.

[steelersfan77]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

The problem with some of these penalties (like pass interference) is that it will require an entirely new game engine. The game engine EA has in there now just won't allow for the type of interaction to have realistic OPI/DPI. It's the same reason holding and clipping are essentially completely randomized penalties, there is just no way to have the individual 1 v 1 interaction with the engine in the game.

But things like late hits and that sort of thing should be incredibly easy to install, I mean it was in the game on the PS2, I can't believe it would be a difficult thing to add.

I'd also love to see celebrations back in the game, with the corresponding celebration penalties. I think it adds a lot to the game and if I want to have a huge celebration and just eat the 15 yards on the kickoff, I should have that choice.

Why does it require a new game engine to add animations to the game? WR/DB jostling was added a couple years ago correct? Why wasn't a new game engine needed to add that?

A defensive holding or illegal contact penalty could be added by simply adding an animation 5 yards past the line of scrimmage. They added an animation at the line of scrimmage, why not 5 yards past? Like a WR double move where the DB gets beat badly and grabs for anything?

Why not add an animation downfield while the ball is in the air? A DB grabbing a reciever or making contact with the WR before the ball gets there? A WR push off? This would help with the DPI/OPI.

If they can add animations that are the game now, gang tackline for example, without needing a new engine(s) than other animations can be added. MOcaps, canned animations, whatever the name of it.

[PowerofRed25]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

Why does it require a new game engine to add animations to the game? WR/DB jostling was added a couple years ago correct? Why wasn't a new game engine needed to add that?

A defensive holding or illegal contact penalty could be added by simply adding an animation 5 yards past the line of scrimmage. They added an animation at the line of scrimmage, why not 5 yards past? Like a WR double move where the DB gets beat badly and grabs for anything?

Why not add an animation downfield while the ball is in the air? A DB grabbing a reciever or making contact with the WR before the ball gets there? A WR push off? This would help with the DPI/OPI.

If they can add animations that are the game now, gang tackline for example, without needing a new engine(s) than other animations can be added. MOcaps, canned animations, whatever the name of it.

You are confusing interaction with canned animations. They could theoretically add an unlimited amount of canned animations, including defensive and offensive pass interference, defensive and offensive holding, etc, etc.

However, that is not interaction, it is an entirely rating independent feature. That is why there are penalty sliders. Let's say they put in an animation for a double move where the DB just grabs the WR or a WR pushing off or a DB running through the back of a guy on a curl route... in the current system, it wouldn't be tied to the ratings of the CB or WR. A guy like Justin Blackmon will be just as likely to push off as a WR for Middle of Nowhere State Tech and a DB like Alfonzo Dennard will be just as likely to grab that guy on the double move as a DB at Middle of Nowhere State Tech. That would without a doubt ruin the game and cause so much more of a fuss than no penalties in the game.

In order to do what you're talking about, it requires code and animation which take into account ALL of these variables:

- Offensive player ratings (not overall, the position specific ones)
- Defensive player ratings (not overall, the position specific ones)
- Offensive route (not the play, every individual route would have to be programmed into the system)
- Defensive assignment (how the defense would run against EACH of the specific routes above)

For example, your double move idea would make zero sense if the defense was in Cover 2 because a WR initially running a slant would be let free since he'd be running into the next guys zone and there is top side help. However in the game as it is now, corners in Cover 2 engage those outside WR's.

The bottom line is that what you are saying could easily be done, but like the penalties now, they would be entirely random which makes it pointless. In order to have ratings dependent penalties, they will need a true interaction system which requires a new game engine.

[steelersfan77]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

You are confusing interaction with canned animations. They could theoretically add an unlimited amount of canned animations, including defensive and offensive pass interference, defensive and offensive holding, etc, etc.

However, that is not interaction, it is an entirely rating independent feature. That is why there are penalty sliders. Let's say they put in an animation for a double move where the DB just grabs the WR or a WR pushing off or a DB running through the back of a guy on a curl route... in the current system, it wouldn't be tied to the ratings of the CB or WR. A guy like Justin Blackmon will be just as likely to push off as a WR for Middle of Nowhere State Tech and a DB like Alfonzo Dennard will be just as likely to grab that guy on the double move as a DB at Middle of Nowhere State Tech. That would without a doubt ruin the game and cause so much more of a fuss than no penalties in the game.

In order to do what you're talking about, it requires code and animation which take into account ALL of these variables:

- Offensive player ratings (not overall, the position specific ones)
- Defensive player ratings (not overall, the position specific ones)
- Offensive route (not the play, every individual route would have to be programmed into the system)
- Defensive assignment (how the defense would run against EACH of the specific routes above)

For example, your double move idea would make zero sense if the defense was in Cover 2 because a WR initially running a slant would be let free since he'd be running into the next guys zone and there is top side help. However in the game as it is now, corners in Cover 2 engage those outside WR's.

The bottom line is that what you are saying could easily be done, but like the penalties now, they would be entirely random which makes it pointless. In order to have ratings dependent penalties, they will need a true interaction system which requires a new game engine.

Why would a company even choose an game engine like this then? I have to be honest, I'm a lineman and work on powerlines all day so I have no idea what you're talking about. It's hard for me to believe than anyone would use game engines like the ones Madden and NCAA use if there are so many limitations stopping them from making this game unique, like none other.

[PowerofRed25]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

Why would a company even choose an game engine like this then? I have to be honest, I'm a lineman and work on powerlines all day so I have no idea what you're talking about. It's hard for me to believe than anyone would use game engines like the ones Madden and NCAA use if there are so many limitations stopping them from making this game unique, like none other.

When these game engines were created, they were the best of the best. But they really haven't changed anything since NCAA first came out. They've added animations, they've changed how certain players interact, they improved graphics but when it comes down to it, the core of the game now is the same as the core of the game in 2002.

There are better, more advanced systems and the technology exists to be even better. The problem is that a complete overhaul of a game system isn't something they can just plug into the game over the 4-5 months they really have to produce the game. I just don't think EA has the manpower to do it.

Ideally, they would have one studio/design team have a two year cycle to create NCAA14 on a new system while the current system makes NCAA13 as the final of the current series.

[steelersfan77]

Re: Offsetting penalities?

Ideally, they would have one studio/design team have a two year cycle to create NCAA14 on a new system while the current system makes NCAA13 as the final of the current series.

Power of Red, is that was EA is doing? That would be sweet if it is. I just think the game needs a new look without so many limitations to improve it. Don't get me wrong, I like the game but it's also the only NCAA liscensed game I have to choose from. I don't expect this game to play like the real thing when it comes to gameplay and atmosphere, afterall it's just a video game, but having limitations to improve such things is a downer.

Anyways, this thread was about offsetting penalities and I'm gettting offtrack. Thanks for the info, it helped to understand the current game engine EA uses for NCAA.