Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

They do it everytime new developers get on board. Ian Cummings was going to move away from Ortiz's arcade direction. Now Cam Weber is on board and they are going to a more simulation and NFL broadcast style.

This as close as the execs actually come to openly speaking out about stale gameplay anyways...



So the feedback Cam Weber reads is that the game is starting to feel stale? Really? Come on, Man! EA can go back and read feed back for any version of current madden, it pretty much the same. Presentation is not existant, game modes are too shallow/bare bones, animation/interactions are bad.

The part of the artricle we are talking about is only about a paragraph long by the way. The rest of this article discusses EA watching NFL film, picking John Madden's brain apart and meticuously making the best football game possible with technology available. Either that, or it discusses EA's challenges like casual/experienced gamers, and how to make a sports game "artistic".

This article doesn't spend a lot of time dicussing the staleness of Madden, or any other of Madden's shortcomings.. and when it does it usually talks about sports games in general.

All I asked was when the last time you read a Madden executive talk about the stale game play. I don't recall Ian coming out and saying Madden's game play was/is stale, do you?

Cam Weber hasn't been on board a year, yet, and he was suppose to know before he came to Madden what the Madden forums were all about?

Puzzling to me.

[jmik58]

They need to omve away from Madden and get in people who are more familiar with how football is played NOW. Madden hasnt coached since, what, the late 70s? And he hasnt announced in 4-5 season.

Game has changed and left him in the past.

You've taken a lot of criticism over this comment but I had a similar thought when reading about Coach Madden's involvement with the game. It was well known that Al Davis held back the Raiders franchise by infusing his 1970's philosophy into a team that tried to compete in modern times. I don't put John Madden on that same level, but I do think it would be constructive to have input from others who have current/recent coaching and/or playing experience on the pro level.

Anyone who watches the NFL can say "Oh, the bubble screen is trending this year," or "Rugby punts are something we need to add because teams do that now," or "The nickel back should line up here because that's how it's done in a base defense..."

John Madden's experience is either in the past or on a viewership basis where he doesn't understand modern schemes and modern philosophies to the extent that is possible.

He never coached/gameplanned/scouted any of the current players and/or coaches that run the present NFL game. I doubt he has taken the time to break down modern day blitz packages or coverages. As a commentator he may have been the guy who used the telestrator to help "educate" viewers, but he doesn't go to the levels of a Chris Collinsworth to really explain the "why" and the "how" of the intricacies of each play.

John will tell you that Marvin Harrison was supposed to be here and usually is there, but sometimes he's not going to be there.

Chris Collinsworth will tell you why he should be there and why he was or wasnt, and what the other team or players did to make that happen.

Schematics/philsophies are evolving on a yearly basis in football. Coach Madden isn't breaking down film and drawing up adjustments on a weekly basis anymore. He hasn't done that for decades.

The game is in the present and moving forward. Madden has good fundamental insight, but he lacks the present day knowledge and innovation that is alive in younger, more recent coaches and players, etc.

I respect John Madden and think he does a fine job providing input. But we need some modern day John Madden's riding shotgun to help bring the X's and O's of the gameplay along.

The fundamentals and basics of the game may never change and for that reason Coach Madden is a great asset. But his contribution can't reach a dynamic level like that of someone with more recent experience and input.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

^^^^

Very good well thought out post.

I'm not convinced Madden is as much as behind the times as people may think he is. He was very much involved in the hiring process of the Raiders new GM. He surely can't talk about yesteryear when interviewing the GM's, he has to talk in the now and the future.

We don't know what Madden does in his off time. He may consult with other teams in the league and knows what schemes they run.

He has a lot more time being retired than he did as announcer to keep up on things. If he is consulting with the Madden team, I would think and say he needs to be up to speed with what is going on now, not in the past.

[dfos81]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

^^^^

Very good well thought out post.

I'm not convinced Madden is as much as behind the times as people may think he is. He was very much involved in the hiring process of the Raiders new GM. He surely can't talk about yesteryear when interviewing the GM's, he has to talk in the now and the future.

We don't know what Madden does in his off time. He may consult with other teams in the league and knows what schemes they run.

He has a lot more time being retired than he did as announcer to keep up on things. If he is consulting with the Madden team, I would think and say he needs to be up to speed with what is going on now, not in the past.

Exactly, I'm sure the EA/Tiburon team didn't spend hours looking at film from the 70's lol. If anything, they watched games from this year, and different schemes and coaching techniques.
What players different styles are and what makes them good/great.
It doesn't take a modern day coach or scout to breakdown what happened on a play by play basis.
I don't see how John Madden's input/feedback could possibly hold any football game back.

[Rocky]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

The 22 players excuse is quite ridiculous IMO. It isn't like Madden is the first and only 11 on 11 football game ever made.

[shadia147]

Here's my problems with this article;
1) The writer openly admits to not watching "American" Football or Video Games regarding Football since the 1980's. So then , why exactly is he giving us his opinion??
2) As mentioned earlier, I'll reinterate... In all these breifings and watching games on TV, Has John Madden actually SEEN the video game himself? Or is he just getting "feature " Briefs from the Devs? Much like the articles we get from the same people hyping the game every year. It's one thing to have people TELLING you how wonderful the game is, it's another thing to actively be involved with PLAYING the game and seeing the issues yourself.
3) None of the DEVS actually played football beyond the high school level... This above everything else is a problem. You gotta have people who know the game involved with the game. Otherwise all this other stuff is all for naught. It has nopoint of reference.
It's like having Ken Burns tell us what it means to be a Jazz Musician.. How would he know if he's never played an instrument? Or been to a club? Or been on Heroin, or been discriminated against becauseof the color of his skin? How would Ken Burns qualify as an authority?
I ask the same question of this writer.

[steelersfan77]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

The 22 players excuse is quite ridiculous IMO. It isn't like Madden is the first and only 11 on 11 football game ever made.

I'm not dissing the excuses, they're all very valid but at the same time you bring up a good point.

I think what it all comes down to was the programs and foundation that Madden and NCAA football were built upon. I don't think it was a very good idea with the power the new systems were able to deliver and are still delivering. Sometimes I wonder if the team that is in place now realizes this and would've opted in another direction?

I think when the time comes for the next generation of consoles that the time and effort needs to be weighed upon to make sure this game is the best representation of simulation football it can be for the most popular sport in the world. Well North America anyways. I'm no computer programs designer so I'll end my peace there.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Here's my problems with this article;

3) None of the DEVS actually played football beyond the high school level... This above everything else is a problem. You gotta have people who know the game involved with the game. Otherwise all this other stuff is all for naught. It has nopoint of reference.

Did you read the whole article?

Cam Weber started at QB in college, Larry Reichardt played QB in college and I know I'm missing some others who played college football.

Actually, Larry wasn't in the article, but I've know that from the past he played QB at one of the Florida colleges, which isn't low level.

[shadia147]

Sorry, I stand corrected. Nevertheless, they played at a very low level. I think one played in canada which is not the same.

[shadia147]

I've said this before.. But to me the perfect guy to have on the Dev team would be Peyton Manning.
A) He's a master of play vision.
And B) He probably plays the game in his spare time.
He'd be a natural to take over the Madden name some day.

[Cre8]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Because there's a cost for every play we put in the game." A memory cost, that is. If White overspends, other aspects of the game might not work properly. Another thing White has to guard against is a play's "exploit potential," which can take months of testing to discover. "There's nothing that we can't do," he said, "because at the end of the day it's still software. What it comes down to is that everything has to be prioritized, because on a yearly sports title we don't have the luxury of something like Grand Theft Auto, which has a four-year development cycle. They can get a rate on a massive amount of things, whereas when you're doing a yearly sports title, everything is condensed. ... We can't put everything a team does in real life in the game, but we try to get the essence of what it is that they're doing."

I am trying to understand if this is an issue with physical memory on a disc or RAM from the console.

Makes me wonder if this will change with the new rumored consoles.

[huskerwr38]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

The 22 players excuse is quite ridiculous IMO. It isn't like Madden is the first and only 11 on 11 football game ever made.

Yes I'm tired of this excuse as well. They act like they are the only ones who have ever made a football game. APF 2k8, NFL 2k5, and last gen all did it better in terms gameplay than any next gen Madden. There should no excuses.

[sactown_13]

Yes I'm tired of this excuse as well. They act like they are the only ones who have ever made a football game. APF 2k8, NFL 2k5, and last gen all did it better in terms gameplay than any next gen Madden. There should no excuses.

Hell, i thought last gen's maddens did a excellent job also. While some of this gen's games have been fun they lack the depth and pure football of the games on ps2/xbox imo. maybe its because im getting older and remember those days so fondly...

[sactown_13]

Madden 10-12 were improvements from the past installments on the next gen but whenever i purchased my ps3 back in the day i expected them to build on the success from the previous consoles. i didnt expect to have to wait till madden 10 to get a enjoyable game of football. here's to hoping this next installment will fix some of those gameplay issues that make me turn off my console.

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I am trying to understand if this is an issue with physical memory on a disc or RAM from the console.

Makes me wonder if this will change with the new rumored consoles.

I personally would say disc since it is developed on 360. HdDVD has much less disc space tan blu-ray