Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

All I asked was when the last time you read a Madden executive talk about the stale game play. I don't recall Ian coming out and saying Madden's game play was/is stale, do you?

Cam Weber hasn't been on board a year, yet, and he was suppose to know before he came to Madden what the Madden forums were all about?

Puzzling to me.

Cam joined the team in the late spring after the direction for M12 was already heavily set in motion. He had minimal effect on M12 from a content or focus standpoint.

[misterkrabz]

A lot of stuff in that article...all I want is the ability to control a pass and have my receiver on the other end jump or dive when I hit the button. Been waiting for that for 6+ years. All the other stuff is meaningless to me until I have that level of control of the game.

[Cre8]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

A lot of stuff in that article...all I want is the ability to control a pass and have my receiver on the other end jump or dive when I hit the button. Been waiting for that for 6+ years. All the other stuff is meaningless to me until I have that level of control of the game.

I think this is the ultimate crux of any sports game.

Control.

The moment you start controlling a player is the moment his ratings start to go wonky. If you run the remainder of the route what is the point of a route running rating? Same goes for catch ratings with 'user' catching or diving, etc.

I see and appreciate where you are coming from; but I also wonder of you react like I do when I try to user-pick in this game and the ball is right there for my DB and he doesn't catch it.

"WTF?! Dude, CATCH the BALL!!!!"

I might give Coach Mode a try just to see if it makes the games a little less of a scream-fest.

[adfletch71]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I too I'm tired of EA excuse about the 22 individual player interactions. Look at ALLPRO2K8 and there interactions of 22 players. No EA stop with the excuses!!! There is no need for EA too hype anything about MADDEN anymore, because there history says the opposite. Cam weber needs too focus on fundamentals. Which has been lacking for almost 8 years now. MADDEN has improved, but really what improvements besides tacking, morphing, broadcast angles and graphics? Presentation is still behind NFL2K5, there still behind on the challenge system, penalties..especially pass interference. The WR/CB interactions is a must along with the OL/DL. They totally need too rewrite that code or something. The game is beautiful, but it's way more than graphics. EA knows they are in trouble with the franchise because of 3 straight years of declining global sales, they also know that they has lost the trust of the community and we as consumers are very skeptical of what comes out of EA marketing stunts.

So with that they really need to get the fundamentals down pack for 13. Since they are the only NFL game in town, I want them too succeed because I love football. I pray too GOD that when the next-generation of consoles comes out, that the NFL learns that only having one company making there game is a mistake and open up the license too others. Since the NFL is always taking about competitiion, they are totally going against what they preach in the business sector. NO more HYPE EA, we know your game, it's time too deliver!!!!!! FUNDAMENTALS of FOOTBALL 2013!!!!!!!!!

[misterkrabz]

I think this is the ultimate crux of any sports game.

Control.

The moment you start controlling a player is the moment his ratings start to go wonky. If you run the remainder of the route what is the point of a route running rating? Same goes for catch ratings with 'user' catching or diving, etc.

I see and appreciate where you are coming from; but I also wonder of you react like I do when I try to user-pick in this game and the ball is right there for my DB and he doesn't catch it.

"WTF?! Dude, CATCH the BALL!!!!"

I might give Coach Mode a try just to see if it makes the games a little less of a scream-fest.

The ratings can still have an impact the game... You can have, for example, a catch rating that where the better the rating the less likely the payer is to drop a pass if the end users timing is right yet it still would produce random drops based on the player attribute..how ever if the user input isn't timed right that significantly reduce the likelihood of a catch. They would have to find that balance that rewarded the end user for good timing yet still make player attributes relevant. What we have now is no more engaging, complex, or rewarding than the passing game in tecmo bowl...that game was made 20+ years ago. My biggest "WTF" moments come from when I'm playing defense and I try to switch men and make a play on a passed ball and I'm pounding the jump button or swat button and the guy I'm controlling does nothing. Once again getting back to the overall lack of control overthe action. Until they fix that, I couldn't care less about anything else they do with the franchise.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I too I'm tired of EA excuse about the 22 individual player interactions. Look at ALLPRO2K8 and there interactions of 22 players. No EA stop with the excuses!!! There is no need for EA too hype anything about MADDEN anymore, because there history says the opposite. Cam weber needs too focus on fundamentals. Which has been lacking for almost 8 years now. MADDEN has improved, but really what improvements besides tacking, morphing, broadcast angles and graphics? Presentation is still behind NFL2K5, there still behind on the challenge system, penalties..especially pass interference. The WR/CB interactions is a must along with the OL/DL. They totally need too rewrite that code or something. The game is beautiful, but it's way more than graphics. EA knows they are in trouble with the franchise because of 3 straight years of declining global sales, they also know that they has lost the trust of the community and we as consumers are very skeptical of what comes out of EA marketing stunts.

So with that they really need to get the fundamentals down pack for 13. Since they are the only NFL game in town, I want them too succeed because I love football. I pray too GOD that when the next-generation of consoles comes out, that the NFL learns that only having one company making there game is a mistake and open up the license too others. Since the NFL is always taking about competitiion, they are totally going against what they preach in the business sector. NO more HYPE EA, we know your game, it's time too deliver!!!!!! FUNDAMENTALS of FOOTBALL 2013!!!!!!!!!

Out of this post, I have to agree about the penalty system. We have been all but assured about the presentation, including commentary, highlight show, etc, being upgraded but the penalty system might be the simulation "canary in the coal mine" for M13. The developers keep stating that they are reading the forums and taking note, so if that's true, I don't see how they can ignore penalties and challenges another year.

I don't know if I would go so far as to boil down M13's success or failure for me on one area but I just don't see how they can have simulation credibility on authenticity and being "True to the game" if such a routine penalty like pass interference is continually treated like an afterthought.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Out of this post, I have to agree about the penalty system. We have been all but assured about the presentation, including commentary, highlight show, etc, being upgraded but the penalty system might be the simulation "canary in the coal mine" for M13. The developers keep stating that they are reading the forums and taking note, so if that's true, I don't see how they can ignore penalties and challenges another year.

I don't know if I would go so far as to boil down M13's success or failure for me on one area but I just don't see how they can have simulation credibility on authenticity and being "True to the game" if such a routine penalty like pass interference is continually treated like an afterthought.

Big, you probably heard me before say this, but the answer to that in the recent past is that more penalties called would take longer to play the game. It was said that gamers were getting a half an hour on the NHL game.

In contrast, my games take an hour and 15 minutes as it is now on Madden. Now, that is a good chunk of time with a family. A save feature then would come in handy, but I heard from Mike Young that that would be costly to implement.

So, maybe they have a button for sim and arcade and just know that sim games are going to take much longer with the inclusion of more penalties.

I'd reach for the sim button, but I know my time is precious as it is.

[adfletch71]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Big, you probably heard me before say this, but the answer to that in the recent past is that more penalties called would take longer to play the game. It was said that gamers were getting a half an hour on the NHL game.

In contrast, my games take an hour and 15 minutes as it is now on Madden. Now, that is a good chunk of time with a family. A save feature then would come in handy, but I heard from Mike Young that that would be costly to implement.

So, maybe they have a button for sim and arcade and just know that sim games are going to take much longer with the inclusion of more penalties.

I'd reach for the sim button, but I know my time is precious as it is.

Hey roadman,

I have too disagree with there idea of football if there not going too be true to the game with penalties. If they think it's too long for the game too be played, then that's the purpose of penalty sliders. If u don't want certain penalties called, then turn them off altogether. There no excuse that pass interference is called once in every 5-10 games. Also there is no fighting for the ball between players as well, so that might be another reason because of the animations. They need to add more animations so that the animations can play out too a offensive or defensive penalty. They can't get away with this after 8 years on the console and years of complaining from the community.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I am trying to understand if this is an issue with physical memory on a disc or RAM from the console.

Makes me wonder if this will change with the new rumored consoles.

I personally would say disc since it is developed on 360. HdDVD has much less disc space tan blu-ray

It would be the console. Have nothing to do with DISC space since most PC games come on ONE DVD and they have better AI.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Hey roadman,

I have too disagree with there idea of football if there not going too be true to the game with penalties. If they think it's too long for the game too be played, then that's the purpose of penalty sliders. If u don't want certain penalties called, then turn them off altogether. There no excuse that pass interference is called once in every 5-10 games. Also there is no fighting for the ball between players as well, so that might be another reason because of the animations. They need to add more animations so that the animations can play out too a offensive or defensive penalty. They can't get away with this after 8 years on the console and years of complaining from the community.

Fletch,

That's why I said, click on a button for sim or click a button for arcade/default.

Sim = all the penalties to your hearts content and arcade/default some penalties.

Isn't options what we are ALL looking for.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Big, you probably heard me before say this, but the answer to that in the recent past is that more penalties called would take longer to play the game. It was said that gamers were getting a half an hour on the NHL game.

In contrast, my games take an hour and 15 minutes as it is now on Madden. Now, that is a good chunk of time with a family. A save feature then would come in handy, but I heard from Mike Young that that would be costly to implement.

So, maybe they have a button for sim and arcade and just know that sim games are going to take much longer with the inclusion of more penalties.

I'd reach for the sim button, but I know my time is precious as it is.

I feel what you're saying and I remember that "reasoning" being offered up in the past. However, that's my point about penalties potentially being an early indicator of just how much the POV for creating Madden has actually changed from the past.

I read Cam and the current developer team stating all kinds of things about NFL authenticity instead of that old mantra espoused by Ian/Phil of balancing realism and fun. However, if their actions in how they create the game still seem to adhere to that old concept, what they state in interviews won't mean a Hover Dam thing in relation to Madden being more realistic.

Like Adfletch stated and you alluded to, there seems to be no good excuse for not having the option for more authentic penalties. Also, this makes me wonder when Madden will actually have a mode that generally represents real time in relation to a NFL game. There needs to be some mode in Madden where points are at a premium instead of these 20-28 min four quarter yardage fests. I would love to have to literally fight for every yard and set up a true playcalling Gameplan and strategy for yardage instead of the Pop Warner style, basketball pickup game pace, currently in Madden.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I feel what you're saying and I remember that "reasoning" being offered up in the past. However, that's my point about penalties potentially being an early indicator of just how much the POV for creating Madden has actually changed from the past.

I read Cam and the current developer team stating all kinds of things about NFL authenticity instead of that old mantra espoused by Ian/Phil of balancing realism and fun. However, if their actions in how they create the game still seem to adhere to that old concept, what they state in interviews won't mean a Hover Dam thing in relation to Madden being more realistic.

Like Adfletch stated and you alluded to, there seems to be no good excuse for not having the option for more authentic penalties. Also, this makes me wonder when Madden will actually have a mode that generally represents real time in relation to a NFL game. There needs to be some mode in Madden where points are at a premium instead of these 20-28 min four quarter yardage fests. I would love to have to literally fight for every yard and set up a true playcalling Gameplan and strategy for yardage instead of the Pop Warner style, basketball pickup game pace, currently in Madden.

Yep, I want more penalties, but I want a saves option also.

As far as your last statement, as far as offline goes for me, that depends what team you are playing with or against. To me, there seems to me more open offenses this past year until they go up against a killer defense. The Packers and Saints come to mind. I've heard Aaron Rodgers state he wants to keep the pedal on the gas. Patriots are another team that does this.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Yep, I want more penalties, but I want a saves option also.

As far as your last statement, as far as offline goes for me, that depends what team you are playing with or against. To me, there seems to me more open offenses this past year until they go up against a killer defense. The Packers and Saints come to mind. I've heard Aaron Rodgers state he wants to keep the pedal on the gas. Patriots are another team that does this.

Understood but does one have to be linked to the other? It seems like the last regime would say something like, we can't add realistic penalties without an in-game save feature and that is hard to implement. One shouldn't prevent the other from being in the game.

Also, there is currently no mode that I am aware of, offline or online that has the realistic pace of a 60 minute NFL game. If someone adept at playing Madden was to play 15 minute quarters, even on All Madden difficulty, I cringe to think how much yardage and how many potential points would be tallied.

For starters, I would love to see personnel packages actually come on and off the field again like they did back in the day in Madden. One of the most arcadey elements that linger in next gen Madden is the timing, imo. Gamers that just want the "highlights" of the NFL in a video game "quickie" should be catered to in NFL Blitz, not a NFL simulation.

It's cool if you or anybody else only has the allotted time for an one hour or less game with 5-7 minute quarters and I would love to see in-game saves added. However, that doesn't mean that a shortened game should have to playout at an arcadey pace, in the meantime.

[pegout]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Also, there is currently no mode that I am aware of, offline or online that has the realistic pace of a 60 minute NFL game. If someone adept at playing Madden was to play 15 minute quarters, even on All Madden difficulty, I cringe to think how much yardage and how many potential points would be tallied.

iv played 15 min Q for the last 2 maddens the most ever scored on me was 59 and the most iv scored was like 52 most the time i avg 300-400 total yards while the cpu get like 300-350, plays split pretty much down the middle 60-65 me 60-65 cpu sometimes i get more somethings they do

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Understood but does one have to be linked to the other? It seems like the last regime would say something like, we can't add realistic penalties without an in-game save feature and that is hard to implement. One shouldn't prevent the other from being in the game.

Also, there is currently no mode that I am aware of, offline or online that has the realistic pace of a 60 minute NFL game. If someone adept at playing Madden was to play 15 minute quarters, even on All Madden difficulty, I cringe to think how much yardage and how many potential points would be tallied.

For starters, I would love to see personnel packages actually come on and off the field again like they did back in the day in Madden. One of the most arcadey elements that linger in next gen Madden is the timing, imo. Gamers that just want the "highlights" of the NFL in a video game "quickie" should be catered to in NFL Blitz, not a NFL simulation.

It's cool if you or anybody else only has the allotted time for an one hour or less game with 5-7 minute quarters and I would love to see in-game saves added. However, that doesn't mean that a shortened game should have to playout at an arcadey pace, in the meantime.

I wish I played 5-7 minute quarters, but I don't for. I play 12 minute quarters and finish in 1 hr and 15 minutes.

Yes, call me selfish if you want, but I don't see any reason why we can't have increased penalties and a save option in 2012.

If you are saying that we can't have save options to forsake more penalties, then I would need to adjust the minutes downward and I don't feel I should need to do that.