Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

iv played 15 min Q for the last 2 maddens the most ever scored on me was 59 and the most iv scored was like 52 most the time i avg 300-400 total yards while the cpu get like 300-350, plays split pretty much down the middle 60-65 me 60-65 cpu sometimes i get more somethings they do

I am surprised to hear this but I don't play the CPU and have only ran offline franchise with friends. I would think that you are policing yourself to play the CPU on 15 min quarters without putting up inflated stats but maybe not. I know there is no way me and my friends could play a Franchise with 15 min quarters with realistic stats unless we created some house rules. lol

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I wish I played 5-7 minute quarters, but I don't for. I play 12 minute quarters and finish in 1 hr and 15 minutes.

Yes, call me selfish if you want, but I don't see any reason why we can't have increased penalties and a save option in 2012.

If you are saying that we can't have save options to forsake more penalties, then I would need to adjust the minutes downward and I don't feel I should need to do that.

I am just saying the two are separate additions and one shouldn't be dependent on the other. If realistic penalties were added without an in-game save feature, like you stated earlier, it should be an option, that anyone could turn off or on. No need for anyone to adjust minutes.

I would also like that same type option for the game to playout in real time, including broadcast and player's moving on/off the field.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I am just saying the two are separate additions and one shouldn't be dependent on the other. If realistic penalties were added without an in-game save feature, like you stated earlier, it should be an option, that anyone could turn off or on. No need for anyone to adjust minutes.

I would also like that same type option for the game to playout in real time, including broadcast and player's moving on/off the field.

Yes, there are separate additions, but both additions I would really want. I'm not the only one that wants saves in games.

Sorry, Big, but people have been asking for in-game saves at OS for years. There's more people than me out there that would love more penalties and a in-game save feature, too.

To me, it seems like you are trying to accentuate which one is more important. I envy people who have time to immerse themselves in a football video game, but there is a market that has family, commitments and just want to chill for a while after working a long full day and spending time with the kids. The only time I have on the 360 is after 10pm at night. If people are fortunate not to use an in-game save feature, that's great, but I would think there would be support even if you don't need it. It's all about options, right? I don't play online at all, but I support the online community in obtaining the same amount of features as the offline people do.

I really don't think an in-game save feature is out of the realm of possibility, especially, since it was discussed during a podcast last summer.

[pegout]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I am surprised to hear this but I don't play the CPU and have only ran offline franchise with friends. I would think that you are policing yourself to play the CPU on 15 min quarters without putting up inflated stats but maybe not. I know there is no way me and my friends could play a Franchise with 15 min quarters with realistic stats unless we created some house rules. lol

got ya. iv only played one person using 15 min Q with the run down to 10 sec wasnt to high scoring like 35-42 or something(using custom sliders) but my friends did it on all madden and the score got in the 100 by the third Q but that was last years madden

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Yes, there are separate additions, but both additions I would really want. I'm not the only one that wants saves in games.

Sorry, Big, but people have been asking for in-game saves at OS for years. There's more people than me out there that would love more penalties and a in-game save feature, too.

To me, it seems like you are trying to accentuate which one is more important. I envy people who have time to immerse themselves in a football video game, but there is a market that has family, commitments and just want to chill for a while after working a long full day and spending time with the kids. The only time I have on the 360 is after 10pm at night. If people are fortunate not to use an in-game save feature, that's great, but I would think there would be support even if you don't need it. It's all about options, right? I don't play online at all, but I support the online community in obtaining the same amount of features as the offline people do.

I really don't think an in-game save feature is out of the realm of possibility, especially, since it was discussed during a podcast last summer.

Well allow me to clarify, that is not my intent. lol

All I am saying is that they are two different additions, with neither one being dependent on the other. I don't know how else to put it and I don't begrudge anyone for wanting either added.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

A lot of things in that article sounded like more excuses to me. Yeah, we know it's hard to do, but it's also hard to muster up the 60 dollars for a bug ridden, unpolished game. Not to mention, other football games have accomplished animations, movement and interaction on the field that looks like the real thing, yet we never hear them complaining about how hard it is. Stop spending so many resources on hand towels, facemasks and socks and get the football right.

I need to post some videos. Among the many problems with Madden on the field, I believe the biggest to be how robotic the players seem. They do not give you the impression that they are actually alive at all. The next time you are playing the game, call a play in shotgun against something like a nickel cover 3. Throw a hitch route to your slot receiver. Go into replay and watch the play and see what the other players on defense do the minute the ball is released from the QB's hand. It's the most ridiculous thing you will ever see. Guys who are not even looking and have their backs turned will whip around (some will even run backwards at times) and go towards the ball. Linebackers who were in the middle of running the opposite direction chasing a receiver going the other way will suddenly stop on a dime, whip around and go towards the ball. Safeties who were running deep will suddenly stop and go back. These are the types of things that scare us (the customer). You know that the developers are playing the game and not noticing that. It ruins the game on the field. Not to mention when i see things like a receiver running out of bounds, then he comes back in and makes the catch - Would an NFL simulation not have illegal touching? I know of a game that did... What about the fact that defensive players catch nearly every ball thrown to them? The interceptions are ridiculous in this year's game. More passes should be broken up with the receivers and DBs/LBs going for the ball. Instead, they warp into position to make the play. We were told this year that suction and warping were removed. Suction is gone (great job there), but warping is worse than ever. It wouldn't be as bad if the defender wasn't going to intercept it every time, but that's what happens. There needs to be FAR less interceptions and more break ups or incomplete passes. How about passes that go off of the receiver's hand as he's reaching for a high throw? Instead, you get the animation where the defender time shifts into the passing lane and makes a one handed leaping interception. Come on, really?

My point being that all of this talk about innovation and the game being stale is really not even the issue. The issue is how broken the existing football is in the game. It's BEEN broken too, for a long time. It's the same stuff. As a football gamer guy, I want more realistic football. I can't remember the last time I watched a cut scene (which makes no sense as it is, guys going off on the cart only to return the next play). However, I do notice when I throw a pass to a wide open receiver running a post route with a 5 yard separation and then the safety warps in front at the last second to intercept it. Or I throw a slant and Lawrence Timmons warps in front to make a one handed leaping interception. These plays happen nearly every game.

One last thing to add, the fact they said they feared the gameday game more than 2k football says a lot about what's wrong over there at Tiburon. "Lost" is the word that comes to mind... SMH

[dfos81]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I belive 90% of Madden fans would be happy w/ a Madden 12.2 and not this yearly cycle of BS.
EA, take a 3-4 yr development cycle and just use your Tuner Sets and Patches to update M12, 12.2, 12.3, etc.

I get tired of hearing the memory and the time constraint excuses from EA.
How much data can be stored on Blu-Ray disc EA? Didnt they dude say he has no limit to what can be stored on the software, so that means its the F'n hardware thats limiting them!

Its sad that we are in 2012 now and game developers are still being held back because of the lack of advancement in hardware and software technology(mainly microsoft). Its just as sad that EA has been throwing out features(ie. vision cone) and adding other crap yearly(pink arm bands and stickers).
Come on man!

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I belive 90% of Madden fans would be happy w/ a Madden 12.2 and not this yearly cycle of BS.
EA, take a 3-4 yr development cycle and just use your Tuner Sets and Patches to update M12, 12.2, 12.3, etc.

I get tired of hearing the memory and the time constraint excuses from EA.
How much data can be stored on Blu-Ray disc EA? Didnt they dude say he has no limit to what can be stored on the software, so that means its the F'n hardware thats limiting them!

Its sad that we are in 2012 now and game developers are still being held back because of the lack of advancement in hardware and software technology(mainly microsoft). Its just as sad that EA has been throwing out features(ie. vision cone) and adding other crap yearly(pink arm bands and stickers).
Come on man!

Unfortunately, the license mandates they come out with a yearly game.

[Smoke6]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I belive 90% of Madden fans would be happy w/ a Madden 12.2 and not this yearly cycle of BS.
EA, take a 3-4 yr development cycle and just use your Tuner Sets and Patches to update M12, 12.2, 12.3, etc.

I get tired of hearing the memory and the time constraint excuses from EA.
How much data can be stored on Blu-Ray disc EA? Didnt they dude say he has no limit to what can be stored on the software, so that means its the F'n hardware thats limiting them!

Its sad that we are in 2012 now and game developers are still being held back because of the lack of advancement in hardware and software technology(mainly microsoft). Its just as sad that EA has been throwing out features(ie. vision cone) and adding other crap yearly(pink arm bands and stickers).
Come on man!

Its just another excuse to me from them as always. Dont get me wrong, I am enjoying this game more that I have others but these issues have been present since last gen and the same exact excuses were being made then.

Now we're on to better hardware and still here the SAME STUFF about limitations. But there are other games this generation that push the envelope feature wise and in the gameplay department and I still dont understand there excuses. Like someone said earlier, leave the cosmetic stuff like towels, handwarmers, and socks and sutff alone and lets focus on the core issues at hand.

Running backs at full sprint after the ball is handed off with no momentum needed.

Foot planting and physics that will keep people from taking much higher risks doing things like Running starts with their safeties before the ball is hiked and are still able to make plays on the field no matter what.

Players playing out of position or being moved manually to the opposite side of the field. The Risk v Reward system is all screwed up. Anyone remember when "hit stick" was introduced and the devs said if you missed that you "paid" for that gamble? Bring that back!

Wr/DB animations play out the same regardless of situation, i dont see any jostling between the players and for the love of football, why is it that when I have a WR taking a Safety or corner for a deep ride to open up the field for me underneath, that the DB can make it back before I can even gain some true ground when his back was turned the whole way down field?

Illegal touching

Illegal contact

Pass Interference (been in previous madden on inferior hardware)

Not every catch attempt should result in the same animation whenever we choose to. It should actually play off the situation more than it should be in the players hands like it is now. As it stands only 2 type of passes are being made and that Rocket Catches and those Over the Shoulder side line catches.

Specific player moves and agilities are a thing of the past, I want to know and see Jared Allen on the field! Suggs, Peppers, Osi, JPP and the others aswell.

Too many "blind deflections" go on aswell, when have you ever seen a defender with his back turned toward a play only to "perfectly deflect" almost 9-10 times a game.

Not too many passes hit the ground without getting touched by someone in the secondary, dunno whats the issue here with it but its not right for some reason.

Throwing across your shoulders has to be tweaked too, too many times I have seen someone full sprint to the sideline only to throw perfect strikes to the other side of the field.

Grey out WR's who are out of sight in getting the ball as accurately as they would get it if the QB was in a better position to throw the ball. Another Risk v Reward type of thing.

I could go on but you guys get the gist of it, I know its a "video game" but im tired of hearing that as being an excuse to why the game gets abused by online players like it has been.

[TNT713]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I really wanted to finish this article... I tried REALLY, REALLY HARD, but the author's writing style, choice of words, and roundabout method of storytelling make Mr. Bissel one of the writers I'll avoid in the future (along with every New York Times writer).

Obviously, I'm not his typical audience. He writes for people who love to read regardless of the content, and I hate reading writers who write for people who love to read.

Can someone summarize everything after the 9th paragraph? It would be agonizing to attempt reading through the mass of literary chaff to figure out what he was trying to say.

Later

[NFL Great]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Look, fact of the matter IS the game is basicall the same, nuts and bolts code that get tuned and tweaked year after year, hence all the legacy issues. I don't know why a company as huge as EA couldn't have built an entirely better, smarter, more sophisticated game engine behind the scenes while pumping out the same game like they do every year.

Some people assume starting over means it HAS to happen in one year. It's just not true. Huge publishers like EA could hire more talent to work an an entirely new engine/game while they feed us the same game tuned and tweaked every year.

Hopefully the fact they have doubled the development team, have some new talent like Cam and now the dude from MLB The Show, means they are working HARD on the next gen dev. kits OR they already know the NFL is opening up the license again so they are fearing competition. The fact they never released any other title updates or ANY tuner sets for Madden 12 means they are focusing solely on Madden 13 and/or the next gen engine.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Look, fact of the matter IS the game is basicall the same, nuts and bolts code that get tuned and tweaked year after year, hence all the legacy issues. I don't know why a company as huge as EA couldn't have built an entirely better, smarter, more sophisticated game engine behind the scenes while pumping out the same game like they do every year.

Some people assume starting over means it HAS to happen in one year. It's just not true. Huge publishers like EA could hire more talent to work an an entirely new engine/game while they feed us the same game tuned and tweaked every year.

Hopefully the fact they have doubled the development team, have some new talent like Cam and now the dude from MLB The Show, means they are working HARD on the next gen dev. kits OR they already know the NFL is opening up the license again so they are fearing competition. The fact they never released any other title updates or ANY tuner sets for Madden 12 means they are focusing solely on Madden 13 and/or the next gen engine.

I don't know why everyone thinks there is a "game engine". There isn't. There are some small chunks that you could call an "engine" for certain things, but there is no game engine that drives madden.

[dfos81]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

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I don't know why everyone thinks there is a "game engine". There isn't. There are some small chunks that you could call an "engine" for certain things, but there is no game engine that drives madden.

Probably b/c of the Blogs from tech sites:

"Square Enix is hard at work on what is going to be their next gen engine, moving away from their past titles’ art work and into photo realism. Square is hoping to do what the Unreal Engine did for this generation, with their Luminous Engine Next Gen."

http://www.ps3blog.net/2012/01/06/luminous-engine-photo-realism-next-gen/

While on the subject of "game engines", it would be nice if EA or 2K started using the Euphoria or a similar type engine from Natural Motion.
I know, wishful thinking.....




70MB of additional RAM unlocked for PS3 developers
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/02/23/70...s3-developers/


They need more storage for more improved A.I., better animations, etc. etc. Blu-Ray can hold all of this. http://techland.time.com/2011/03/30/...h-for-blu-ray/


The visuals will benefit from the additional RAM but what about the major improvments we are searching for. Heres a quote from the article: "Generally it probably won't change design, but might allow extra effects resolution or dynamic lights or something. Probably more beneficial from the systems and art side then from design/gameplay."<!-- / message -->

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

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Probably b/c of the Blogs from tech sites:

"Square Enix is hard at work on what is going to be their next gen engine, moving away from their past titles’ art work and into photo realism. Square is hoping to do what the Unreal Engine did for this generation, with their Luminous Engine Next Gen."

http://www.ps3blog.net/2012/01/06/luminous-engine-photo-realism-next-gen/

While on the subject of "game engines", it would be nice if EA or 2K started using the Euphoria or a similar type engine from Natural Motion.
I know, wishful thinking.....

Yes, but the developers have said there is no "game engine". They might now have built a few engines that can be used to drive certain aspects of the game, like maybe a franchise engine or something like that, but there is no single "engine" driving the gameplay of madden. Maybe that's part of the problem, they need more generic code that drives certain aspects of the game.

[cmidd]

What happened to the "A year is not enough time to make significant improvments" excuse? Now its a console memory issue?!? Soccer has 11 players on the field per team, crowd AI, etc. fifa's devs aren't making excuses their making great games