MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

[saturn2187]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

is there going to be online franchise? I understand there will be online co-op franchise but what about franchise with two different human teams?

Thanks Guys

[Bobhead]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

A guy who only hits 10 homers a year, but they're all insanely huge ones, shouldn't have a low "power rating" because he only hits 10 a year. He should have a high power rating because he clearly has the muscle to put them into orbit -- he should just have something else in his ratings that explains why he falls short of his own ceiling so often.

Excellent post, and I agree (with all of it, but I only quoted the part I'm directly responding to). The issue is already partially addressed, as the necessary attributes already exist, I just feel they aren't being used properly. In the case you described, you have Plate Discipline, Contact, and Plate Vision to compensate for having a lot of power but struggling to hit home runs frequently. It would depend on what he was doing when he wasn't hitting home runs. If his home run percentages (ratio of home runs to hits that are not home runs) are fine and he just has trouble consistently putting the ball into play, it should be his vision or contact, etcetera...

I feel a perfect example is Alex Rodriguez (if we pretend he is still in his prime). I don't remember what his power rating has been in The Show, but it was definitely up there in the 80's if not the 90's. Now I'm no Yankee fan so I might be mistaken, but with all the home runs he has hit, I've never really seen too many breathtaking ones. It isn't his power that is exceptional, his talent is that he's just really good at hitting home runs at a fairly reliable rate. On the other hand, you have guys like Carlos Delgado, Matt Stairs, etc... (I'm dating myself with these examples lol). Always seemed to post a batting average that was... well... average, but boy could they get it over the fence.

I have to go, so I'll close by playing devil's advocate for a minute. There is a definitive possibility that SCEA are already miles ahead of us, and that this is already how the attributes work. In that case, the real issue would be that they (the attributes) are incorrectly titled. Instead of "power" perhaps it should be called "likelihood of the player hitting a home run if he successfully hits the ball." Just rolls right off the tongue, no?

[greenngoldbaseball]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

I keep forgetting to ask this: is there any change to the hall of fame? I played 7 seasons and didn't see a single person get in. Would love to see this work properly. I ended up making my own selections after each season, but I tend to be a little biased.

[nomo17k]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

...

I have to go, so I'll close by playing devil's advocate for a minute. There is a definitive possibility that SCEA are already miles ahead of us, and that this is already how the attributes work. In that case, the real issue would be that they (the attributes) are incorrectly titled. Instead of "power" perhaps it should be called "likelihood of the player hitting a home run if he successfully hits the ball." Just rolls right off the tongue, no?

All this time I thought that was exactly what Power attribute did. I'm fairly confidence it is.. (except it should be "likehood of hitting a long ball, not necessarily a HR") though I don't have much to back that up. It just makes sense that way. Also the game doesn't predetermine if a solid hit is HR or not... and that makes it possible to naturally introduce the park factor, which the game already does.

Agree with the way to introduce inconsistency... in a longer run, that probably leads to a system that more closely resembles reality.

[greenngoldbaseball]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

All this time I thought that was exactly what Power attribute did. I'm fairly confidence it is.. (except it should be "likehood of hitting a long ball, not necessarily a HR") though I don't have much to back that up. It just makes sense that way. Also the game doesn't predetermine if a solid hit is HR or not... and that makes it possible to naturally introduce the park factor, which the game already does.

Agree with the way to introduce inconsistency... in a longer run, that probably leads to a system that more closely resembles reality.

Are you sure about this? If so, then does this only apply to played games or sim games as well? The reason I ask is that I played with Oakland and had more or less the same road and home splits with power hitters (I had to trade for them since they don't exist in Oakland), despite playing in a pitcher friendly park. Also, sim stats seemed pretty close for top players no matter where they played. In an extreme case, I saw Ryan Howard get sent down to AAA in the 2010 game and hit 55 home runs there, which was give or take 3 home runs from all the other years he played in Philly. This plus or minus held in the first three seasons with all the top tier players no matter what league or team they played for. I figured it was how the sim engine worked. I am pretty sure that sim games aren't actually "playing" games, as that would take a much longer time to calculate than it does currently.

[nomo17k]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

Are you sure about this? If so, then does this only apply to played games or sim games as well? ...

The fact that a HR is not predetermined is a frequent trivia in this game. So I'm sure... At least in gameplay, it's not predetermined. It's physics based there (ball flight path, air condition, park dimension, etc.).

I know the sim engine is different from gameplay engine. From what I gather from a bunch of older Brian@SCEA posts that I've read recently, these two modes even get worked on by different engineers (Brian does the gameplay).

I think the sim engine is not as elaborate for sure... so I wouldn't be surprised park factor and such are not taken into account, although it could be done in theory...

[greenngoldbaseball]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

The fact that a HR is not predetermined is a frequent trivia in this game. So I'm sure... At least in gameplay, it's not predetermined. It's physics based there (ball flight path, air condition, park dimension, etc.).

I know the sim engine is different from gameplay engine. From what I gather from a bunch of older Brian@SCEA posts that I've read recently, these two modes even get worked on by different engineers (Brian does the gameplay).

I think the sim engine is not as elaborate for sure... so I wouldn't be surprised park factor and such are not taken into account, although it could be done in theory...

I used to think it was all physics based, until I kept seeing inside pitches hit for home runs...to opposite field. I questioned the physics a lot, like many others I saw on this site. People were told many times by people that supposedly know that the physics were just fine and everything was in their heads. So I took it as it was all in my head. Then they [SCEA] come out with this new revamped physics that is supposed to be more true to life and so great that the few that have seen it can't even go back to 11. So now I don't know what to think.

As for the sim stuff, what you said makes sense. I was trying to figure out in my head how long it would take a computer to calculate every single pitcher versus batter matchup for every single AB for every single game for every single team and I didn't get very far. I don't think even Watson would be able to do that at the speed in which I can sim through a whole season.

[nomo17k]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

I used to think it was all physics based, until I kept seeing inside pitches hit for home runs...to opposite field. I questioned the physics a lot, like many others I saw on this site. People were told many times by people that supposedly know that the physics were just fine and everything was in their heads. So I took it as it was all in my head. Then they [SCEA] come out with this new revamped physics that is supposed to be more true to life and so great that the few that have seen it can't even go back to 11. So now I don't know what to think.

In games like this, physics-based means certain parts of the game are dictated by very well understood (and reasonably simple) physics. Computing ball physics *in the air* can be well approximated given all the knowns... and that's why I presume the devs can now do a very good job of replicating how it travels with the new engine.

I think computing how the bat contact leads to the initial condition of the ball flight is an entirely different matter, because there are a lot more unknowns you need to deal with (e.g., angle at which the ball hits certain part of round bat, how the wood/ball compresses, etc., etc.).... so I wouldn't be surprised figuring out how to realistically simulate (lack of) opposite field power was a more difficult problem

As for the sim stuff, what you said makes sense. I was trying to figure out in my head how long it would take a computer to calculate every single pitcher versus batter matchup for every single AB for every single game for every single team and I didn't get very far. I don't think even Watson would be able to do that at the speed in which I can sim through a whole season.

I actually like to play all my game using the gameplay engine and simulate franchise, haha. It can certainly run within 20 - 25 min per game on Vita, but that's with presentation. If you just run a game without presentation (with presentation, the game needs to *slow down* at 30 - 60 frames per sec), then each game should finish much faster under the hood. I can surely wait a minute or so to finish one game if I have the option....

[jeremym480]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

Yes, the stats/ratings/whatever exporter/importer would be nice at the very least... I cry every time I wipe out season/postseason stats.

Sorry if this has been addressed before as I haven't been following The Show too closely this year, but they still haven't added historical stat tracking? I don't expect them to track all the advanced stats, however the major ones would be nice.

[nomo17k]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

Sorry if this has been addressed before as I haven't been following The Show too closely this year, but they still haven't added historical stat tracking? I don't expect them to track all the advanced stats, however the major ones would be nice.

According to posts earlier in this thread, the amount of historical stats stays the same as in previous years...

Hope the devs can figure this one out!! I really enjoy looking at how players progress/regress in year-to-year stats...

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

Sorry if this has been addressed before as I haven't been following The Show too closely this year, but they still haven't added historical stat tracking? I don't expect them to track all the advanced stats, however the major ones would be nice.

Not this year. But they do know we want it...It comes down to the standard they have for save files. I was really trying to get team names added on stat lines when I was there. Even little things like that are harder to put in than the average person believes.

[nomo17k]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

Not this year. But they do know we want it...It comes down to the standard they have for save files. I was really trying to get team names added on stat lines when I was there. Even little things like that are harder to put in than the average person believes.

Do you know if the restriction is on the *size* of save file? If they cannot go over 22 - 23MB of the current save file, then I can almost surely bet historical stats of the magnitude we are hoping to have won't happen.... hope that's not the case..............

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

Do you know if the restriction is on the *size* of save file? If they cannot go over 22 - 23MB of the current save file, then I can almost surely bet historical stats of the magnitude we are hoping to have won't happen.... hope that's not the case..............

Kolbe PM'd me before saying it was a size issue, that after a few seasons the save files would be huge. Now that does not mean more cannot be saved.

I am guessing it depends on how files are saved, compression etc... Again that is a guess, because he did mention before that they are always looking into ways to expand stat tracking.

[Knight165]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

I used to think it was all physics based, until I kept seeing inside pitches hit for home runs...to opposite field. I questioned the physics a lot, like many others I saw on this site. People were told many times by people that supposedly know that the physics were just fine and everything was in their heads. So I took it as it was all in my head. Then they [SCEA] come out with this new revamped physics that is supposed to be more true to life and so great that the few that have seen it can't even go back to 11. So now I don't know what to think.

As for the sim stuff, what you said makes sense. I was trying to figure out in my head how long it would take a computer to calculate every single pitcher versus batter matchup for every single AB for every single game for every single team and I didn't get very far. I don't think even Watson would be able to do that at the speed in which I can sim through a whole season.

I think what most guys were saying was "in their heads" was the supposition that the outcomes were predetermined. They were/are not.

....and yes...the gameplay sim engines are different in some senses....but both rely heavily on the attributes for their outcomes.

M.K.
Knight165

[greenngoldbaseball]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Franchise Mode Improvements

In games like this, physics-based means certain parts of the game are dictated by very well understood (and reasonably simple) physics. Computing ball physics *in the air* can be well approximated given all the knowns... and that's why I presume the devs can now do a very good job of replicating how it travels with the new engine.

I think computing how the bat contact leads to the initial condition of the ball flight is an entirely different matter, because there are a lot more unknowns you need to deal with (e.g., angle at which the ball hits certain part of round bat, how the wood/ball compresses, etc., etc.).... so I wouldn't be surprised figuring out how to realistically simulate (lack of) opposite field power was a more difficult problem


I actually like to play all my game using the gameplay engine and simulate franchise, haha. It can certainly run within 20 - 25 min per game on Vita, but that's with presentation. If you just run a game without presentation (with presentation, the game needs to *slow down* at 30 - 60 frames per sec), then each game should finish much faster under the hood. I can surely wait a minute or so to finish one game if I have the option....

Thanks for that. I can understand how difficult it must be to replicate actually physics when there are no physics in the game. There is no ball traveling at 95 miles per hour and there is no bat to meet it. Rather, we have pixelated versions of each that make us fall into the illusion, and very well done if we can have these physics debates like we do. I don't quite understand what you mean with your last paragraph, but that is probably because it is a bit too technical for me.

Knight, I would assume that in the sim engines the results would be 100% attribute driven wouldn't it? I mean with game play you get user imput to some extent, but not in sim so what else would it be that determines the outcomes? Maybe I am not fully understanding your statement.