Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

[kickingguru]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

and I ask the question again... How many times can they repackage... "Beat Old Tom Morris on the Front 9 of St. Andrews..." There is zero depth to that anymore and EA just takes the easy way out instead of risking a complete redesign.............

[peigone]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

I would like to see their research on this. When I think core buyer... I think of someone like myself.

I think it's been discussed here in the past, that the typical OS gamer is in vast minority when it comes to what gamers are wanting and looking for. My understanding is something like 90% of the people who play these games have an attention span of about 25 minutes at a time. Then they switch it off and move on to something else. EA designs all their games to accomodate that crowd from what I see.

[peigone]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

My point is that the marketing of games from EA in general seems counter intuitive. Only hardcore fans pay attention 6 months before release.

That makes sense. But who knows what goes on in the minds of these devs and marketing people. Also, with EA we've seen that all the online dev blogs and discussions and such, mean little to nothing at all. It's all overhype and false promises every year. Difficult to fathom the true nature of it, and what the whole annual exercise is all about other than to push the product. Regardless, when communication isn't actually based on being entirely honest and upfront about things, it never really matters what's said anyway, does it?

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

That makes sense. But who knows what goes on in the minds of these devs and marketing people. Also, with EA we've seen that all the online dev blogs and discussions and such, mean little to nothing at all. It's all overhype and false promises every year. Difficult to fathom the true nature of it, and what the whole annual exercise is all about other than to push the product. Regardless, when communication isn't actually based on being entirely honest and upfront about things, it never really matters what's said anyway, does it?

What false promises? What are they not being honest and upfront about? No, seriously...because if they have, please point it out to us because I have seen nothing of the sort.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

What false promises? What are they not being honest and upfront about? No, seriously...because if they have, please point it out to us because I have seen nothing of the sort.

Let's see, how about the...

1.Move implementation, totally half assed effort and inexcusable since the Wii motion+ is much more manageable so it's just complete laziness that they decided to make it virtually unplayable but that was last year so this year will be the Kinect's turn to be done half assed.

2. Year after year they state they are looking into allowing DLC into career mode (while charging an outlandish fee most years) and the one year that they finally do it (and brag about finally doing something that should have been done years before) after several years of complaining they again do it half assed where we are not allowed to customize any tourney we want so you see most DLC courses once very 5 years at the game's choosing.

3. This total shot control looks to be a complete farce. I don't even need to play it to know that. Just from the videos it's painfully obvious that the buttons have simply been remapped and a graphic of the swing plane with a pair of feet added. And all these degrees of draws and fades, backspins and choked clubs (which you could do last year) is controlled by an aiming marker (just like last year). The only difference is they upped the tempo on your swing (we'll see because tempo was a part of last year's swing as well) and add a description of it post shot. Whoopee. You want total shot control? Then get rid of the damn aiming marker. Let the user decide how much draw\fade etc... to use and not see the exact end result with an aiming marker beforehand. They simply rearrange the interface and brag about a new groundbreaking innovation. That's a pretty good example of false promises.


The one innovation that I loved was the TW 11 true aim. Then they get rid of it because it was too sim like and made you think too much. So leave it in there for those who want it. They already have the code for it. I've never heard an instance in a sports game where they introduce a feature that the sim guys love and they totally turf it without even leaving it as an option which isn't hurting anybody. It's bizarre how these devs think.

But the devs say that their internal polling showed that most didn't like it. Well if you ask a bunch of 12 years olds, who hate math and don't want to think about anything except big breasts, then yeah you'll get a negative answer. And then you'll get those same kiddies saying they wanna play as Tiger before he hit puberty and voila the devs throw all thier money and resources into having you play as a 6 year old creepy looking mini Tiger hitting out of a sandbox. It's like EA putting a mode in Madden where all the players play in a superhero costume because thier internal polling showed that a segment of the fanbase wanted it (ie the 12 year olds)

[peigone]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

What false promises? What are they not being honest and upfront about? No, seriously...because if they have, please point it out to us because I have seen nothing of the sort.

I was talking about all of EA's sports games. Every year they hype this and blog about that, and every year they release more or less the same stale and unchanged game geared towards the arcade button-mashing online crowds. With the exception of FIFA 12 and updating my TW PC collection, I haven't bought an EA game in four years. There's no point, there's so little about their games that ever changes. In fact the biggest changes to their games the past few years have had to do with adding less and less to game itself, while offering and charging more and more for online components and DLC. It's clear their corporate game development vision has little to do with actually improving these games and making them the best they can possibly be. Rather, the goal seems to be to add enough cost-effective tweaks and minor changes each year to keep consumers believing they're buying something new, different and better.

[Oblong]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

Let's see, how about the...

1.Move implementation, totally half assed effort and inexcusable since the Wii motion+ is much more manageable so it's just complete laziness that they decided to make it virtually unplayable but that was last year so this year will be the Kinect's turn to be done half assed.

2. Year after year they state they are looking into allowing DLC into career mode (while charging an outlandish fee most years) and the one year that they finally do it (and brag about finally doing something that should have been done years before) after several years of complaining they again do it half assed where we are not allowed to customize any tourney we want so you see most DLC courses once very 5 years at the game's choosing.

3. This total shot control looks to be a complete farce. I don't even need to play it to know that. Just from the videos it's painfully obvious that the buttons have simply been remapped and a graphic of the swing plane with a pair of feet added. And all these degrees of draws and fades, backspins and choked clubs (which you could do last year) is controlled by an aiming marker (just like last year). The only difference is they upped the tempo on your swing (we'll see because tempo was a part of last year's swing as well) and add a description of it post shot. Whoopee. You want total shot control? Then get rid of the damn aiming marker. Let the user decide how much draw\fade etc... to use and not see the exact end result with an aiming marker beforehand. They simply rearrange the interface and brag about a new groundbreaking innovation. That's a pretty good example of false promises.


The one innovation that I loved was the TW 11 true aim. Then they get rid of it because it was too sim like and made you think too much. So leave it in there for those who want it. They already have the code for it. I've never heard an instance in a sports game where they introduce a feature that the sim guys love and they totally turf it without even leaving it as an option which isn't hurting anybody. It's bizarre how these devs think.

But the devs say that their internal polling showed that most didn't like it. Well if you ask a bunch of 12 years olds, who hate math and don't want to think about anything except big breasts, then yeah you'll get a negative answer. And then you'll get those same kiddies saying they wanna play as Tiger before he hit puberty and voila the devs throw all thier money and resources into having you play as a 6 year old creepy looking mini Tiger hitting out of a sandbox. It's like EA putting a mode in Madden where all the players play in a superhero costume because thier internal polling showed that a segment of the fanbase wanted it (ie the 12 year olds)

Ignorant posts like this is one of the main reasons I largely ignore this forum. Hats off to Divot and Onlooker for continuing to wade through this muck.

Polling? They look at how users play the game. They get stats on what mode people play (online and offline). The numbers don't lie. In TW11, less than 1% of users played True-Aim mode (online or offline). The reason it was scaled back was because if you recall it wasn't available for p2p play because doing such caused camera sync issues. It was very complicated and far above your intelligence to even attempt to explain.

As with the other stuff, rather than just line by line provide insight, I'll just say each is completely off-base. Users will draw conclusions after they've PLAYED the game rather than from the rants of someone who hasn't.

I must say that when it comes to game design, things are far more complicated than what users think. Motion controls for example are completely new and uncharted territory (Wii is NOT Move or Kinect) so EA is basically designing the wheel with no past history to go on. Making a usable interface by compartimentalizing millions of unique user swings into a playable package is not something that can just be done with a snap of the fingers. I'll leave it that, ignore the coming attacks, and realize the more sensible visitors here will silently nod in agree rather than post something to be bullied over.

[peigone]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

I'll leave it that, ignore the coming attacks, and realize the more sensible visitors here will silently nod in agree rather than post something to be bullied over.

You start out by calling people ignorant, then wonder why attacks might be coming? That's Logic 101 mate.

[Oblong]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

You start out by calling people ignorant, then wonder why attacks might be coming? That's Logic 101 mate.

Where did I "wonder" if attacks were coming. I knew they were whether I called him ignorant or not. Call it a preemptive strike.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

Ignorant posts like this is one of the main reasons I largely ignore this forum. Hats off to Divot and Onlooker for continuing to wade through this muck.

Polling? They look at how users play the game. They get stats on what mode people play (online and offline). The numbers don't lie. In TW11, less than 1% of users played True-Aim mode (online or offline). The reason it was scaled back was because if you recall it wasn't available for p2p play because doing such caused camera sync issues. It was very complicated and far above your intelligence to even attempt to explain.

As with the other stuff, rather than just line by line provide insight, I'll just say each is completely off-base. Users will draw conclusions after they've PLAYED the game rather than from the rants of someone who hasn't.

I must say that when it comes to game design, things are far more complicated than what users think. Motion controls for example are completely new and uncharted territory (Wii is NOT Move or Kinect) so EA is basically designing the wheel with no past history to go on. Making a usable interface by compartimentalizing millions of unique user swings into a playable package is not something that can just be done with a snap of the fingers. I'll leave it that, ignore the coming attacks, and realize the more sensible visitors here will silently nod in agree rather than post something to be bullied over.

That was brilliant, besides being one of the patronizing posts of all time (to me and to this site), the name calling and your frank thoughts about this forum was just a breath of fresh air. But I'll agree with you about one thing, ignoring this forum is probably best for everyone involved because you obviously take offense to anyone who doesn't drink the EA wine. And you're a EA mod....enough said there. Lucky for you there are no ignorant posts made on that site (insert derisive laugh here)

Unfortunately the rest of your post is just more excuse making for EA. If the Move implementation was so difficult then don't introduce it (and advertize the hell out of it) until you at least make it playable, which it wasn't last year. If it takes an extra year then so be it. It's not like they have any real competition to worry about and have to rush it out. Don't mislead buyers, who shelled out an extra $100 for the Move just to specifically play TW12, and then put out a broken product. But I guess I'm too ignorant to even be questioning that.

As for true aim, well if this 1% figure (which I find very hard to believe) was true then what harm would there have been to keep it offline if online was a problem. The coding is in the game already. And a Dev just indicated to me today the option for the TW11 true aim will apparently be available (thank god) for TW13. So why do that if only 1% use it? But I guess my limited intelligence can't understand that.

Being this ignorant, and coupled with my limited intelligence, I don't know how the hell I managed to tie my shoes this morning

[Oblong]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

Exactly the type of response I was hoping for, Seymour/Dan!

It's not fun when someone speaks to you in the manner I did. The reaction is to lash back and the important points of discussing the game itself get lost in the shuffle.

The point I was trying to make here is that is exactly how you come across much of the time when discussing the game, lashing out at EA. It doesn't generate a climate of 2-way discussion, nobody likes to be spoken to via ridicule and the EA guys by the nature of their job can't just lash back so they just pull away completely. I've seen it happen.

Most of the thoughts and ideas you have about the game I actually agree with you on. I should be one of your bigger fans as I've pushed hard for 5 years trying to get more sim-like functionality in the game for those who want it (and not at the detriment of the arcade crowd).

I was actually not unlike you about 10 years ago. Loved Links on the XBox and would go on the EA forums trashing the TW series. Back then the devs were nowhere to be found. When I learned there wouldn't be a sequel to Links I figured I needed to work on somehow getting the TW guys onboard with sim aspects. They finally started responding WHEN I BECAME MORE CONSTRUCTIVE in my criticisms. Now some 5 years of pleading and working on those relationships were are finally seeing a Links-like tempo swing among many other what I call victories.

Truth is we need each other if we want to continue moving TW in the right direction. Stay constructive, stop the ridicule and making up baseless theories on why things are so. (Which brings up another point, every headscratcher I've asked them about always comes back with a reasonable explanation on their side). The guys working on the game are passionate, work hard, have to make tough decisions that not all of them always agree on, and do want feedback from gamers.

Hopefully this exercise will have helped make the point I was after and that you'll join those of us seeking change through positive constructive criticism.

Obs

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

Exactly the type of response I was hoping for, Seymour/Dan!

It's not fun when someone speaks to you in the manner I did. The reaction is to lash back and the important points of discussing the game itself get lost in the shuffle.

The point I was trying to make here is that is exactly how you come across much of the time when discussing the game, lashing out at EA. It doesn't generate a climate of 2-way discussion, nobody likes to be spoken to via ridicule and the EA guys by the nature of their job can't just lash back so they just pull away completely. I've seen it happen.

Most of the thoughts and ideas you have about the game I actually agree with you on. I should be one of your bigger fans as I've pushed hard for 5 years trying to get more sim-like functionality in the game for those who want it (and not at the detriment of the arcade crowd).

I was actually not unlike you about 10 years ago. Loved Links on the XBox and would go on the EA forums trashing the TW series. Back then the devs were nowhere to be found. When I learned there wouldn't be a sequel to Links I figured I needed to work on somehow getting the TW guys onboard with sim aspects. They finally started responding WHEN I BECAME MORE CONSTRUCTIVE in my criticisms. Now some 5 years of pleading and working on those relationships were are finally seeing a Links-like tempo swing among many other what I call victories.

Truth is we need each other if we want to continue moving TW in the right direction. Stay constructive, stop the ridicule and making up baseless theories on why things are so. (Which brings up another point, every headscratcher I've asked them about always comes back with a reasonable explanation on their side). The guys working on the game are passionate, work hard, have to make tough decisions that not all of them always agree on, and do want feedback from gamers.

Hopefully this exercise will have helped make the point I was after and that you'll join those of us seeking change through positive constructive criticism.

Obs

I never launched personal attacks against other posters with my views and I never say those EA guys are %$#&%^$. I sometimes say the things that EA does are %&$#%@#. I keep my harsher criticisms for this board as this site has more sim related gamers who would agree on the many issues that plague the TW series. On the EA board I'm not nearly as nasty as I wanna be when I present my views on mind numbing decisions that EA makes and in the last week alone have gotten some invaluable feedback on queries I made to the devs on threads.

Whatever views people here or on the EA board have I don't take personally if i don't agree with them. ie: you like the Legacy mode so you must be ignorant and stupid. Divot asked what false promises they made and I simply stated my views which I think have merit in my eyes.

This is a site which discusses opposing views on video games so it's natural I would lash out at EA if I think they are making dumb decisions. It would make no sense to lash out at other posters here. I welcome the back and forth with people who disagree with me, you included, but not if it becomes an insult fest. That's not what this site is all about. I've had numerous battles with Divot over the years but neither of us resort to name calling (although I'm not very fond of his smiley faces he puts in almost every post to illustrate his displeasure).

If your point was to deliberately bait me as some psychological lesson to show me how EA feels about being criticized well then I fail to see the connection. I'm criticizing a game developer in things they have done, you are making it personal and do it in a patronizing manner.

If you thought my post was ridiculous, then feel free to say that and provide counterpoints. Like I said I welcome the back and forth. But to sprinkle in how ignorant and mentally challanged I am and others here are (and the site in general) because we are not EA cheerleaders, well that's the not the way to go about it constructively.

I do respect that you are one of the few guys over there who push the sim agenda and I don't hold grudges (but "I'm sorry" would be a nice gesture) or Divot and I would have put each other on ignore a long time ago.

[orthostud23]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

This is the part that I don't understand when it comes to this game. I hear folks say that there are more "arcade" TW fans then compared to us "sim" gamers. Now with that said what more arcadish things can they incorporate to this game for them?? They can already control the ball in mid air and power boost so they hit the ball 400+ yards. So why is it so hard then to add some "sim" features that would grow the game more for them?

The swing tempo/arc seems like a step forward but its not that big of a step IMO over the last 5 years.

Oblong: I know I have played Links back in the days with you (LG gaming if I recall) and since you have played the game and have been down there for the community days then maybe you could shed some light on this. How many of these community day guys are looking for a "sim" type game??

[kickingguru]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

I simply question whether the developers really do know who this game is appealing for. Every year the excuse for the lack of support is the disappointing sales. If that is the case every year, maybe a complete change in focus is needed. Casual gamers do not pick up a golf game. Only fans of golf pick up a golf game. This is not football, basketball, or even hockey. You are either a fan of golf or not a fan of golf. There is very little in between. To do things that try to "capture" people not interested in the sport will be an uphill battle.

The point about this is that I have never once played with some one in the last 10 years that raved about the "Story Mode". They only comment about that it is the slog you have to go through to get your character's attributes high enough. It is a mode that you give up on because you can't score low enough, or you breeze right through because you can score low. There is very little satisfaction you derive out of that. Maybe promote your "new" and improved "Story Line" much closer to launch, and give your base customers a taste of what they are craving at this point in the promotion process.

[1Rose]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Legacy Challenge Details Revealed

Who is that African American gentleman in those videos?

I know that's not supposed to be Tiger Woods is it?

Do they even invite him to mo-cap anymore? That swing looks nothing like his and his player likeness gets worse and worse every year. They really need to reboot this series, or let someone else make it.

Can anyone honestly sit here and say they want to play as a child Tiger Woods? Seriously. Tired of all the gimmicks when tons of major issues continue to be ignored. Ball physics, pin placement logic, player models, club proportions, atmosphere, presentation, animations etc. are all STILL awful and have been for a while now. I think 2007 was the last time I saw a smooth golf swing in a TW game and 2011 was the peak graphically. They need to go back to using the facial scanning technology they were using from 2011 and before because now the player faces look really bad.

Seeing this game progress through the years makes me want to bash my head through a wall. For every step forward they always take two or three steps back.