Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

My answers to most issues seem to be the same as I feel most things are due to a few big issues. I'd like to see:

• Engaged player mobility - Engaged defenders need to be able to move laterally to close down the space on outside runs, contain, and allow for true cutbacks. Engaged players also need to be able to move forward/backward to allow for true edge rushing, contain, pocket collapses, etc.
• Run fits - Defenders should have assignments like they do irl. Run defense is based on gap/contain assignments. Without contain assignments, the success of outside runs is based too heavily on the OLB/OT fight. An OLB can do his job without disengaging, by maintaining outside leverage. An OT can do his job without pancaking or "holding", by staying engaged & rinding a defender and giving the RB a lane.
  
  Even on inside runs, it seems a d-lineman's 1st move is always towards the blocker assigned to them, even when they have to move away from the play. D-linemen have to be programmed to "read" the o-linemen, maintain their gap & flow towards the play.
• Realistic Footwork - Another one that affects the spacing of plays. Ball carriers are too twitchy & can cover too much ground in a short period of time. And it looks ugly. Defenders are also too twitchy, covering too much ground, very noticable on pass plays when they get to balls they shouldn't.
• Tiered Play Calling - One I don't expect for a while, but it's very necessary to even out the playing field. Madden's preconceived plays just don't give us enought ammo. I can't be the only one that has been getting beat by a play type, knew it was coming, but couldn't find a "play" to match the scheme in out head.
  
  D coordinators put schemes together in parts. They can combine fronts, stunts, blitzes, shells & coverages in a great number of ways. In Madden, I always feel I have to make a choice between stunt/blitz package & coverage. If I want to play Man Free, I'm stuck to the 2-3 plays from a particular front. If I want to blitz my WOLB, I'm again stuck to the few plays with that blitz. In either case, I can't put together a defensive scheme and often have my front 7 or DBs doing someting I don't want.
  
  Sure, we have audibles. Problem is I'm limited to the time my opponenet gives me before he snaps the ball and there are no stunt audibles. IMO, the only way around tiering the defense is to add many, many more preconceived plays to cover more of the stunt, blitz, shell & coverage combinations that exist.
• WR/DB Interaction - Shading is there, but it doesn't seem to work. Shading inside should take away inside routes more times than not, at a particular depth. Same for shading outside.
  
  We need more depth options for DBs. Press, off, at/near 1st down & way off for the desparation situations.
  
  DBs need more ability to bump & redirect WRs.
  
  Not so much interaction, but I'll put it here. DBs (& WRs) need separate jump & catch/swat buttons. Too often, I want to jump and the DB only puts his hands up. But this also needs to be connected to line of sight.
• Line of Sight - This will take away from the defense, but make it more realistic. Defenders should not be reacting to balls they can't see. If a DB is playing man & the ball is thrown in another direction, he should not be turning & chasing right away.
  
  DBs/LBs should also be limited in how they react to a ball. Most trailing defenders shouldn't be jumping at balls since they are focused on the WR. Few DBs have the awareness to turn & look in those situations. We should have to play the WR's hands in these cases.
• More double team animations and the ability & need to draw double teams. Some 3-4 NTs commandd double teams on inside runs. This is often what makes the 3-4 successful. Some DEs (& DTs) command double teams on passes.

Everything in this post!!!!

The thing that I DON'T like mentioned in that article is the "poor awareness by defenders". Really? I believe it's the exact OPPOSITE problem. You have guys that are running in the opposite direction with their back to the QB stopping the instant the ball is thrown, doing a weird circle animation then warping through the receiver to pick off the pass. Linebackers are running to their left only to warp 5 yards to their right to intercept the pass with one hand. It's a total mess in my opinion. Passing the ball should be challenging and I like that, but when you make a good read and you see the separation only to have the defender magically warp to a spot that he can't possibly get to, it's infuriating.

Player interaction in madden needs the overhaul, not just the defense. I don't want to see all 11 defenders reacting to the ball before it's left the QBs hand, yet that is EXACTLY what happens.

[knighthawksfan]

I hope they do something with online franchise as well because that needs an upgrade along with superstar mode

[bobtrain]

Everything in this post!!!!

The thing that I DON'T like mentioned in that article is the "poor awareness by defenders". Really? I believe it's the exact OPPOSITE problem. You have guys that are running in the opposite direction with their back to the QB stopping the instant the ball is thrown, doing a weird circle animation then warping through the receiver to pick off the pass. Linebackers are running to their left only to warp 5 yards to their right to intercept the pass with one hand. It's a total mess in my opinion. Passing the ball should be challenging and I like that, but when you make a good read and you see the separation only to have the defender magically warp to a spot that he can't possibly get to, it's infuriating.

Player interaction in madden needs the overhaul, not just the defense. I don't want to see all 11 defenders reacting to the ball before it's left the QBs hand, yet that is EXACTLY what happens.

I completely agree. This is what separates Madden from an enjoyable football sim for me. The passing game is totally flawed in this game due to Defense AI. I'm running a Online Franchise (no slider adjustments online) and EVERYONE is averaging 3-7 interceptions a game. This is ridiculous. There are a ton of good suggestions all of which I'm sure will not come out in such a short dev cycle for a new Madden dev team. Here are possible some quick fixes?

-LB, S and CB jump ratings mean nothing. That needs to be fixed ASAP.

-Eye placement on ball should be fixed (i.e. a CB should not make Willie Mays catches repeatedly in a game).

-More animations on offense and defense (in my opinion this would help with the CB and WR interactions and create less glitching by defenders in making ridiculous interceptions)

-Ball trajectory and game speed (just improving the ball trajectory wouldn't work because player speed on the field is faster than real life. This would only create more interceptions, so ball trajectory and game speed would have to be addressed at the same time). I highly doubt Madden will ever fix game speed though, seeing as I've been feeling that Madden has been supporting the fast twitch type player more than the football simulators.

-Everything else mentioned in this forum would be great, but I'm holding my breath.

[bobtrain]

I hope they do something with online franchise as well because that needs an upgrade along with superstar mode

oh yes, we all forgot about features (we were talking about gameplay), but yessssss. Superstar is the worst feature ever. They should just copy NBA 2k12 in this aspect. Nothing is rewarding about starting right away when your player is rated 75 OVR. Ideas:

-Interactive draft process (combine, interviews and scouting)
-Draft day (doesn't need to be flashy, just a draft where you can see where players get drafted etc...like 2k)
-Training Camp (fight for position...what happened to that feature in Madden????)
-Get points based on YOUR performance, not team performance (just copy the entire point system after 2k really)
-Then you can use those points to upgrade and fight for a starting position.

[chi_hawks]

blah blah blah.....

SSDD with these guys. Until they revamp the physics engine, things will be very similar to past years.

[michapop9]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

blah blah blah.....

SSDD with these guys. Until they revamp the physics engine, things will be very similar to past years.

yeah, pretty sure this is the case. Phil Frazier said a "real time physics engine" was somewhere in the future, wonder with these new devs if that is still in the picture, it needs to be.

[JaySmooov]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

oh yes, we all forgot about features (we were talking about gameplay), but yessssss. Superstar is the worst feature ever. They should just copy NBA 2k12 in this aspect. Nothing is rewarding about starting right away when your player is rated 75 OVR. Ideas:

-Interactive draft process (combine, interviews and scouting)
-Draft day (doesn't need to be flashy, just a draft where you can see where players get drafted etc...like 2k)
-Training Camp (fight for position...what happened to that feature in Madden????)
-Get points based on YOUR performance, not team performance (just copy the entire point system after 2k really)
-Then you can use those points to upgrade and fight for a starting position.

I don't get the notion that a company should copy another game's product. Why would you want a game to copy another game? That makes no sense at all.

It makes you sound like some type of 2K homer rather than someone with a rational opinion or suggestion.

That's like telling your girlfriend, "Oh, I think you should get implants, get your nails done, etc. so you can look JUST like that girl down the street. Oh, but you don't have to change your hair or the way you talk, just make sure you do EXACTLY what she's doing."

[bobtrain]

I don't get the notion that a company should copy another game's product. Why would you want a game to copy another game? That makes no sense at all.

It makes you sound like some type of 2K homer rather than someone with a rational opinion or suggestion.

That's like telling your girlfriend, "Oh, I think you should get implants, get your nails done, etc. so you can look JUST like that girl down the street. Oh, but you don't have to change your hair or the way you talk, just make sure you do EXACTLY what she's doing."

Actually if you had some intelligence you'd understand that all things in life are borrowed. Everyone agree's that Steve Job's was not the best inventor, but the best borrower. He didn't invent the iPhone. He revolutionized it. He didn't event the computer. He made it simple. So until you get a little bit smarter here, then I see no problem in borrowing what works and making it better. LOL

[bobtrain]

I don't get the notion that a company should copy another game's product. Why would you want a game to copy another game? That makes no sense at all.

It makes you sound like some type of 2K homer rather than someone with a rational opinion or suggestion.

That's like telling your girlfriend, "Oh, I think you should get implants, get your nails done, etc. so you can look JUST like that girl down the street. Oh, but you don't have to change your hair or the way you talk, just make sure you do EXACTLY what she's doing."

oh and that 2k statement is what smart people call an assumption, but I understand. LOL. No really, I've only played 2k12. so again, no I'm not a fan boy. I see what works and want a better product.

[Steven123]

The problem is the engine, without a different engine, the gameplay will be underwhelming no matter how many changes they make for it. I expect a few new animations and maybe a new pre-play defense menu then BOOOM, the "newest feature" - "Total Control Defense!" Yeah right.

[johnnyg713]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

@Bezo, man do I hope they discussed the issues you brought up at CD and I hope the developers see your post.

As I stated earlier in this thread, for EA to implement more "Fun" in playing defense, they need to give us more control but at the same time they must somehow make playing defense easier. I feel this is what EA is struggling with.

I like to think I'm more of a hardcore madden player when it comes to playing offense, but when I play defense I put myself on the casual side. When I play defense, 80% of the time I control a Defensive lineman, the other 20% is when I blitz with a linebacker or safety. I don't even bother trying to cover a receiver because I know I'm gonna get burned. I strictly rush the QB or try and stop the run. All my friends play defense this same exact way, so I feel I speak for the majority of casual gamers.

User coverage in this game is too hard. EA implemented the use of A to automatically guide your user controlled defender but at the end of the day thats not fun either. I found myself just switching back to rushing the QB.

[PantherBeast_OS]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

Just make every matchup on the field,.balanced and fair.

Thats all.

Whenever I hear talk like this, I get a little nervous because they have a habit of swinging the pendulum too far in the opposite direction.

Reward the right use of personnel and x's &o's, and punish those who dont.

Simple.

Nothing much I can say at this point. Everyone has just said about everything that can be said about this blog.

Like Sportguy said and I agree with him. All I want to see is a fair and level playing ground between me and the AI. Reward the team that play the right calls. Take away the mirror WR routes crap and fix the ball trajectory and I would be happy camper. Just stop with the Superman AI stuff. That has been going on for far to long and it is time to end it this year.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

I'm all for the defense getting alot of attention for 13. The only thing is you are going to get alot of players who are lacking on the offense side of the ball complaining about how tough it is to run or pass instead of working on there game.. But I agree with some of the posters about the interactions between the Dline/Oline and CB/WRs needs to be fixed so the gameplay can look right. But even if that gets fixed you will still get complaints from guys who simply aren't good on offense. Some of the complaints is warranted but some of it is also the USER..

[43M]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

Ill reserve judgement as usual, but its pretty safe to say that I personally wont be buying this game. I bought Madden 12 and once again got burned out too quickly from how boring it was...and not just one aspect of the game.

Seriously, there is too much that needs addressed. Cool that defense is being addressed, but offense, presentation and franchise still need huge upgrades as well before I consider dropping $50 on this game again.

Im at a crossroads right now. Im getting older and would love to see a great football game come out that I can truly enjoy again ala Madden 2004, 2005. But Im also at the age where I dont feel the need to go spend money on a football game just to get my fix.

[DUDERMAN]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

I'm all for the defense getting alot of attention for 13. The only thing is you are going to get alot of players who are lacking on the offense side of the ball complaining about how tough it is to run or pass instead of working on there game.. But I agree with some of the posters about the interactions between the Dline/Oline and CB/WRs needs to be fixed so the gameplay can look right. But even if that gets fixed you will still get complaints from guys who simply aren't good on offense. Some of the complaints is warranted but some of it is also the USER..

I couldn't agree more after reading some of the comments here. I'm constantly reading about too many interceptions in the game, but if you make the right reads and the right throws, it's easy to avoid interceptions. The problem is that the game is too easy, even on All Madden, for offense and defense. By increasing the defensive play and AI QB play, this game would instantly be more fun... for me at least.