MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

[TheHammer19]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

I was dissappointed with the "new" commentary this year. Who agrees?

[Pared]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

Vash - go take a look yourself. It is on MLB's site - right center against the cardinals, hit further than the pitch in question. He got the bat out and it went to the right center gap.

[nomo17k]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

...

I said MOST baseball physics. Determining how much grass slows down a rolling baseball is simple, flight trajectory is simple, etc. Basic wind physics is simple (there's a constant wind blowing all game so no variable wind). To make the wind realistic enough and believable, you just need to apply X amount of horizontal force per every MPH of wind on the ball in flight, that's it.

And, why is it that outfielders are always way too fast in this game when that is just simple physics as well? Getting an object (an outfielder) to move X amount of feet per second is real simple, velocity is probably like the first thing you learn in your 1st physics class. A human can only run so fast and each ballpark in the game is dimensioned properly so why can't the devs get a player to run at proper speeds inside of one of their realistically dimensioned fields?

Yes, bat-on-ball physics are really complicated but I'm asking why the basic stuff can't be done properly, and why are we just getting to focusing on bat-on-physics in the 9th iteration of a baseball series? Math is something computers can do really fast, it's not like putting in proper physics is going to take up a major portion of processing power.

I think you are simplifying everything a bit much, but I'd say what you are saying about "high-school" physics has been basically in the previous game. Yes, they may not have been fine tuned enough to more closely reflect real-life, but something like what you keep repeating about the wind physics... I don't see why you think they have not been in the game. If you look at the trajectory of the batted ball, it moves basically like high school physics tells you...

You have a point about fine tuning some parts of the game realistically, and I agree that the best way is to actually fine tune based on real-life values, given everything in the Show is basically "to scale" with real life.

But simple physics won't solve all the issues though. Even if you make outfielders run at a realistic speed, you also need to think about how their reactions are, what kind of paths they take... as most outfielders making non-routine plays don't necessarily take optimal path, running at full speed, etc. That sort of heuristic A.I. decisions must be much harder to code than we think.

[jlatz10]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

Vash - go take a look yourself. It is on MLB's site - right center against the cardinals, hit further than the pitch in question. He got the bat out and it went to the right center gap.

Pared is right. It's a common mistake but don't forget to switch the stadium from Wrigley to Busch in that FOX module. Barney inside-outed the ball to RF quite a bit last season.

[sydrogerdavid]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

These guys are big leaguers ya know? They can do almost anything when hitting the ball.

[Vashyron.]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

Vash - go take a look yourself. It is on MLB's site - right center against the cardinals, hit further than the pitch in question. He got the bat out and it went to the right center gap.

That pitch was down the middle and up. He wouldn't have hit that pitch nearly that far on a fly on a fastball belt high and on the black of the inside corner. Also, that is probably the farthest he could've hit the pitch. I've seen slap hitters in 11 The Show, hit opposite field HRs on pitches right on the high inside corner.

[jmik58]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

That pitch was down the middle and up. He wouldn't have hit that pitch nearly that far on a fly on a fastball belt high and on the black of the inside corner. Also, that is probably the farthest he could've hit the pitch. I've seen slap hitters in 11 The Show, hit opposite field HRs on pitches right on the high inside corner.

You just said it yourself... in '11. The ball physics are new to '12 so you won't have that same issue.

[Pared]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

That pitch was down the middle and up. He wouldn't have hit that pitch nearly that far on a fly on a fastball belt high and on the black of the inside corner. Also, that is probably the farthest he could've hit the pitch. I've seen slap hitters in 11 The Show, hit opposite field HRs on pitches right on the high inside corner.

My point is your example was the very first thing I looked for and disproved. When I give you an example, you have to try and explain it... after you said it could never happen.

If it could never happen, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The absolutes are not comments to make. We're not talking about '11, we're talking about what you just questioned on '12... and to say X player should never do something like that... when there is video proof they just did... there's not much else to say. You're going on beliefs and I'm going on facts.

Anyway, I don't like getting into discussions with people who say never. Just found it funny in this instance when I saw the first highlight. Often times they're pretty wrong and that's what makes baseball great - fans say never and never always seems to happen.

[WhiteM5]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

That pitch was down the middle and up. He wouldn't have hit that pitch nearly that far on a fly on a fastball belt high and on the black of the inside corner. Also, that is probably the farthest he could've hit the pitch. I've seen slap hitters in 11 The Show, hit opposite field HRs on pitches right on the high inside corner.

Hey Vash, I'm on-board for making sure the physics are as real as they can be, but were you taking into account the timing of the bat and not just location? For example, the real-life Barney triple clearly is middle-in and you can see him slightly late, pulling his hands in to get around. I watched the MLB 12 vids closely, and from what I could tell, timing seemed to make a big difference as to pull or opposite field. I was pretty satisfied that a middle-in pitch could (and should) go opposite (or result in being jammed) given a swing that is slightly late. Same for outside pitches...swinging early would result in a pulled grounder (or weakly pulled).

[Vashyron.]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

You just said it yourself... in '11. The ball physics are new to '12 so you won't have that same issue.

Yeah, I know I'm talking about 11, that's why I keeping a close eye on the 12 videos looking to see these new improved bat-on-ball physics. The opposite field power in this series has always been ridiculous. Oh, and Jon Jay can't take a inside fastball, hit a long fly ball, and hit it past the centerfielder to left-center like that either. I could see him doing that on a pitch middle to away and getting full arm extensive a few times a season.

My point is your example was the very first thing I looked for and disproved. When I give you an example, you have to try and explain it... after you said it could never happen.

If it could never happen, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The absolutes are not comments to make. We're not talking about '11, we're talking about what you just questioned on '12... and to say X player should never do something like that... when there is video proof they just did... there's not much else to say. You're going on beliefs and I'm going on facts.

I totally don't understand how a pitch middle of the plate and up is the SAME thing as hitting a pitch that's belt high and on the black of the inside corner. I wasn't saying Barney couldn't hit a ball that far, I'm saying he can't on that pitch.

[WhiteM5]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

Yeah, I know I'm talking about 11, that's why I keeping a close eye on the 12 videos looking to see these new improved bat-on-ball physics. The opposite field power in this series has always been ridiculous. Oh, and Jon Jay can't take a inside fastball, hit a long fly ball, and hit it past the centerfielder to left-center like that either. I could see him doing that on a pitch middle to away and getting full arm extensive a few times a season.



I totally don't understand how a pitch middle of the plate and up is the SAME thing as hitting a pitch that's belt high and on the black of the inside corner. I wasn't saying Barney couldn't hit a ball that far, I'm saying he can't on that pitch.

Actually I don't think you're wrong...either of you. I wouldn't care if they took 5% distance away from opposite field hits just to compensate. This way the beasts (Prince Fielder) could still hit them out 380-400 ft., and the smaller guys would be short of the warning track/or very rarely getting it out down the line. We also don't know what difficulty the video was played on...perhaps we don't see these exact hits with a higher difficulty. We also don't know the wind.

[Vashyron.]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

Hey Vash, I'm on-board for making sure the physics are as real as they can be, but were you taking into account the timing of the bat and not just location? For example, the real-life Barney triple clearly is middle-in and you can see him slightly late, pulling his hands in to get around. I watched the MLB 12 vids closely, and from what I could tell, timing seemed to make a big difference as to pull or opposite field. I was pretty satisfied that a middle-in pitch could (and should) go opposite (or result in being jammed) given a swing that is slightly late. Same for outside pitches...swinging early would result in a pulled grounder (or weakly pulled).

I really don't think Barney would hit an inside pitch on the black that far unless he turns on it. If he's late on an inside pitch like that, I could see him being able to muscle a blooper between the infield and outfield or hitting a soft liner. That pitch in the video for the triple was about half over the middle and half on the inner portion so it was middle-in, much different than being on the black, plus the pitch was up as well. And, I don't think Jon Jay could hit that pitch where he did in the game in real life either.

[WhiteM5]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

I really don't think Barney would hit an inside pitch on the black that far unless he turns on it. If he's late on an inside pitch like that, I could see him being able to muscle a blooper between the infield and outfield or hitting a soft liner. That pitch in the video for the triple was about half over the middle and half on the inner portion so it was middle-in, much different than being on the black, plus the pitch was up as well. And, I don't think Jon Jay could hit that pitch where he did in the game in real life either.

Playing devil's advocate...Barney had a HR in the gameplay demo..and so did Jay...perhaps the difficulty was allowing for *enhanced* physics. Until we get our hands on the final version, I think its too early to critique just yet. I agree the past versions were poorly handling opposite field hits...no question there. But I'm kinda liking what I saw in the vids of 12.

[Bulls321974]

Sorry - these arguments don't hold water. I looked up Barney's highlights last year and what's the first one I see? Pitch on the inner part of the plate and he takes it to right center 10 ft. short of the warning track.

Yeah - totally can't hit the ball straight away center if gets the barrel out and has great timing.



Edit - are we seriously going to harp on why there wasn't real physics in past games? How many games promote true physics? Anyone?

Couldn't agree more...

[Pared]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Gameplay Video - Cubs vs. Cardinals (OS Exclusive) - Part 3

Oh, and Jon Jay can't take a inside fastball, hit a long fly ball, and hit it past the centerfielder to left-center like that either. I could see him doing that on a pitch middle to away and getting full arm extensive a few times a season.

Depends on where he is in on the box. The game doesn't allow you to move your batter but to say "never?" That's not in my vocabulary. I've seen players do things you wouldn't imagine with fans always saying never.

We're not discussing a 500 ft. bomb, we're discussing tens of feet and when you say never, there's no argument here - just your opinion that no one can change.

I totally don't understand how a pitch middle of the plate and up is the SAME thing as hitting a pitch that's belt high and on the black of the inside corner. I wasn't saying Barney couldn't hit a ball that far, I'm saying he can't on that pitch.

Guess we have differing viewpoints. Oh well.