Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

[Aggies7]

With the refocus on defense I hope HOPE that the pass rush and blocking logic is adjusted, we can disguise blitzes with some pre snap movement and disguise coverage like ps2 era.
(MAN LOCK I'M LOOKING AT YOU.). And possibly bring back full pass rush move controls.

Either way I'm in wait and see mode.

If by man lock your talking reverse camera for defense I am right there with you on that one. Just hope it finally makes it in.

[OPDriver]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

We shall see. They have a lot to improve and I honestly don't see it happening.

[LionsFanNJ]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

If by man lock your talking reverse camera for defense I am right there with you on that one. Just hope it finally makes it in.

no no. Though i love that camera in NCAA and i agree on that point it would be great in Madden, I'm actually speaking on man lock how it was used on PS, where say you call a zone play, but tap the man lock button, so the players line up like they're playing man coverage, but the zone responsibilities change based on where those players line up. Pretty much a bluff of coverage

[DUDERMAN]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

I would also like to have an option to have my corners play inside coverage or outside. It would help when getting abused up the middle and help cover the sidelines at the end of a game when trying to conserve a win.

[kingsofthevalley]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

The things I hope to see (and pretty much all that is needed imo) is for gravity to be respected and for the players to move about the field similar to human beings, ie heavy turns, weight, a bit of mass, etc. FIFA has this down pretty good. Check the player movement in FIFA 12 or the old gen Madden/NCAAs to see exactly what I mean.

That is ALL that is needed.

Almost forgot, a global editor to get everything just right.

[KingV2k3]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

I'd like to be able to assign a defender (for example the SS) to cover the CPU TE without it resulting in zone coverage chaos...

The only thing that works is the first 3 WRs...

The 4th WR / TEs/ HBs...not so mucho...

Also:

Smarter "Spy" logic...

I'd like to see the "old stuff" work before they attempt "new stuff"...

[Argooos]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

Here's how I picture playing Madden on defense against the AI:

First of all, the camera is facing the backs of my players.

Before the snap, I have selected a play. Based on my alignment, the opposing QB has a chance of figuring out if I'm in man or zone coverage and adjusting the offensive play accordingly. The chance of him doing this successfully is based on his awareness. I may also have called a blitz or a fake blitz. The opposing QB (and Center perhaps) also has a chance of guessing correctly whether it is a fake or real blitz (his chances of guess right are based on AWR) and changing blocking assignments accordingly.

Also I could, by pressing at most two buttons (a trigger and another button), call in certain personnel packages. The offense might then adjust the play based on the ratings of the players I have brought in (the odds of them adjusting correctly would be based on a combination of the skill of the QB and the knowledge of the Offensive Coordinator). So, I could have different packages for run situations and for pass situations for every play in my defensive playbook, and with the press of two buttons, I could send little skinny guys off the field and bring in the big boys, without ever actually changing the play. The offense would then look at the ratings of the players I have brought in and determine if they need more blocking or if they should call a pass instead of a run or whatever.

As the game goes on, the QB and the OC keep track of what plays I have run, and if I keep calling the same plays or same style of plays, they will begin to call plays that match up well against what I have been calling. So if I keep calling run defense plays and using run defense packages, they might call more play action passes. If I am blitzing a lot, they might call more quick passes or put in more blockers. They will also keep track of the success of my plays, and will adjust accordingly. Of course, the chances of them adjusting properly and in a timely fashion will depend on how aware the QB is and how good the OC is.

I would then imagine offense working in a similar fashion, with the defensive playcaller (usually the MLB) acting as the QB and the DC being used instead of the OC.

Now combine that with realistic physics, realistic OL/DL and WR/CB interactions, and realistic player reaction times, and you've got an addictively fun NFL game, no?

[Jakeness23]

Could y'all fix the offense in a major way as well? And do SOMETHING with Association and Superstar...

[ANDROMADA 1]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

No more teleporting.

[KBLover]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

Too often, you can't make the "right" read because you can't trust what you see.

You see a defender leaving the area, creating a window for the throw. You throw it, the defender, who's momentum should be going totally in the wrong direction, slides over/spins around to make a perfect pick.

It wasn't a bad read, in the real game, a defender can't do that. For one, he might not even see the ball thrown, and trying to make a play like that with his momentum going totally the other way isn't going to happen.

Another example - I have Mike Williams on a curl. The OLB is in a flats zone towards the sideline. The corner is in man coverage playing over-the-top shading. The MLB is middle zone and the SS is cover 2.

Williams makes a good cut, turns is about to show me his numbers. I release the ball with anticipation of his route definition, with pulling back on the L-stick to bring him further from the over-the-top CB, and the CB goes through (literally) Williams to pick the ball. Or the flats defender somehow shifts over to snatch the ball or drop the pick. Then sometimes, Williams, a 99 RTE WR with high AGI will just stop and turn up the field...on a curl. Why? Of course, that plays into the CB's coverage (despite me pulling back to bring Williams back to me) and CB undercuts the pass.

I want defense to play smartly without having the offense "create" plays for the defense to make by suddenly acting like 2 yrs who never seen a field before. I want that CB to anticipate curl (maybe he read a key on Williams) and shift to underneath coverage, making me hold the ball, have to scramble, or just throw it out of bounds near Williams.

Pass defense isn't all about picks and deflections but in Madden it is. Sometimes, it should be forcing overthrown/underthrown incompletes just to get rid of the ball or tighten the window and the QB can't hit it because his S/M/DAC and AWR is too low and the ball is just off target. Sometimes its forcing the QB to scramble and take a 2 yd sliding "run" instead of a risk on an INT. And often, the pass defense starts with the pass rush - and the problems in that area have been mentioned often.

And you should be able to make the read and trust your eyes. Offensive and Defensive players should be both executing, not shifting, sliding, going through (literally) each other without contact, penalties, etc.

If players played smarter, more fundamental football, I bet these "shortcuts" wouldn't be needed. That's what I want to see on defense.

[ANDROMADA 1]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

^^^^ AKA teleporting/timeshifting/warping/refracting/morphing/the matrix, lol

[RogueHominid]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

I'm just picking up on the word "fun" in the title here. That's not "fun" in the OS sense of the word, but in the Madden community at large sense of the word. If I had to guess what they meant by more fun in a broad sense, I'd think it would be more hit-sticking and fumbling, more injuries and increased responsiveness to user-controlled players.

That's not what I'd consider fun, but if the marketing team is using that as a key word, I'd expect the above.

[TNT713]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

Just thought about this topic again - and I have to add: To people who genuinely care about playing defense, playing defense is already fun. Unfortunately, very few people actually care about defense enough to make it fun. They want to play offense seriously, and let the AI handle the defense.

Think about it this way...

I once read a book that stated that you can train a monkey to play offense - run here, do this, do that. Defense requires a special player that can perform his assignment without knowing where he will line up, where he will run, or who he will defend. Offense is about following a plan, defense is about thinking ahead and reacting.

How many of us can elaborate on every defensive player's assignment simply by looking at the diagram of the play?

Very few.

How many of us know how shifts effect how our players will perform their assignments?

Very few.

How many of us know what to do against every potential offensive alignment?

Very few.

The question is WHY SO FEW?

It's because most players have no interest in playing defense, therefore defense isn't fun. It shows. To quote Bart Scott, those dudes can't stop a nose bleed.

It's not odd that these players are also the quickest to jump on the bandwagon of the latest fad blitzes, 11 man coverages, etc... they are the most unoriginal players on the planet on the defensive side of the ball.

Defense still won't be any fun for them because defense is all about "WANT TO." Show me a guy that takes pride in making tackles and stopping his opponent and I'll show you someone who thinks defense is fun. Show me a guy that just wants the ball and I'll show you someone who thinks defense isn't fun.

I love defense!!!

Later

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

Just thought about this topic again - and I have to add: To people who genuinely care about playing defense, playing defense is already fun. Unfortunately, very few people actually care about defense enough to make it fun. They want to play offense seriously, and let the AI handle the defense.

Think about it this way...

I once read a book that stated that you can train a monkey to play offense - run here, do this, do that. Defense requires a special player that can perform his assignment without knowing where he will line up, where he will run, or who he will defend. Offense is about following a plan, defense is about thinking ahead and reacting.

How many of us can elaborate on every defensive player's assignment simply by looking at the diagram of the play?

Very few.

How many of us know how shifts effect how our players will perform their assignments?

Very few.

How many of us know what to do against every potential offensive alignment?

Very few.

The question is WHY SO FEW?

It's because most players have no interest in playing defense, therefore defense isn't fun. It shows. To quote Bart Scott, those dudes can't stop a nose bleed.

It's not odd that these players are also the quickest to jump on the bandwagon of the latest fad blitzes, 11 man coverages, etc... they are the most unoriginal players on the planet on the defensive side of the ball.

Defense still won't be any fun for them because defense is all about "WANT TO." Show me a guy that takes pride in making tackles and stopping his opponent and I'll show you someone who thinks defense is fun. Show me a guy that just wants the ball and I'll show you someone who thinks defense isn't fun.

I love defense!!!

Later

Looks like we are going to disagree all day like AP. lol

"WHY SO FEW?", Because in Madden, none of those things are a requirement or much assistant for playing successful defense. For most gamers "fun" equates to success and both are readily available in Madden without the need for even much NFL common sense, imo.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Team Focuses on Making Defense Fun Again, What Do You Hope to See?

Just thought about this topic again - and I have to add: To people who genuinely care about playing defense, playing defense is already fun. Unfortunately, very few people actually care about defense enough to make it fun. They want to play offense seriously, and let the AI handle the defense.

I disagree with this point wholeheartedly. When I picked up Madden again in 2004 after a long hiatus, I was one of those players who only cared about offense... and because of that, I thought the defense was actually fine.

None of the flaws, like a lack of gap assignments, or proper alignments bothered me, because I just wanted to hang 70 on the board. I found a couple of blitzes, and line shifts that guaranteed me sacks on just about every play and away I went. For me, that was plenty fun.

It wasn't until I actually wanted to play realistically, and started to learn about real defensive tactics -- alignments, run fits, stunts, coverages -- it wasn't until I began to cull all that knowledge that Madden became a bore to me.

I see the point you're trying to make, but it's too simplistic. You're boiling it down to -- if a person doesn't enjoy what's already in Madden, then they must not know what they are doing -- when the truth is a lot more nuanced. There is a crowd that doesn't know what they are doing, but then there's also more than a few on the other side who understand defense and are frustrated at how flawed it is on a fundamental level.

Personally, I LOVE DEFENSE. It has become my obsession, and because I sought out how it's done in real life, it opened my eyes to just how short Madden has been coming up all these years.

He who increases knowledge, increases sorrow.