NBA Elite Name is History, NBA Live 13 is Coming

[Jay Jay]

Re: NBA Elite Name is History, NBA Live 13 is Coming

I don't see how it would be messed up? Nobody should expect a new engine this year. Two years is no where near enough time to develop a new engine for a game. Most people seem to forget that building a new engine takes years to do and tons of man-power. Most games that bring a new engine with every sequel have four year cycles and over 30+ programmers working on the engine only, not to mention the other things that go with the engine. Most developers will tell their programmers to re-write and recheck the code and adjust accordingly. This is was done to multiple games such as Halo Reach, Skyrim and some other games. These games still have a have the framework of the old games but simply re-gutted and rewrote a lot of aspects of the game to run better and allow more things. This is most likely the case with NBA Live 13.

We need to have a realistic idea of this game in what it will be and what will it do. Can we expect a game with solid gameplay and a steady set of modes and features to keep us playing. If that's the question then yes. But if people expect this game to be the crown savior of basketball games and have every feature and idea they wanted, they will be greatly disappointed. No matter the two year cycle, the NBA Live team will not be able to get everything into the game, there simply is no way to do so. No game has reached perfection and I don't think any game this year will.

Sorry for the long post. Again, I believe this year we will get a great game that will keep us happy and keep us playing.

Fifa 12 player impact engine was developed in 2 years and now is shared with games like BF3, do your research and you will see. Elite 11 already had a new engine but needed some work and 2 years is more than enough time to work on a engine that already exsist. Even if they borrowed the player impact engine from Fifa all they have to do is animate the characters to play basketball like BF3 animated theirs for war. Same thing for game modes such as be a pro, it is shared in a lot of EA sports games. Nobody is asking for perfection, all most gamers want is just something different from what 2k and EA has offered thus far. No more scripted gameplay is what EA was pushing for and its something that should have been done when Natural Motion's hit the scene and if you are paying attention you will clearly see that all of the great games of this gen is better because of physics.

Im all for having more control over my character vs losing control due to 2 man animations.

Im all for being able to body up due to physics vs using some stupid defensive assist button.

Im all for contact animations being played out in real time vs a system that choose what to play.

Im all for anything can happen.

Look at the level of control Max Payne 3 offer, that's what all these sports games need and hopefully that's what NBA Live is bringing to the table for basketball.

[drew_3]

Re: NBA Elite Name is History, NBA Live 13 is Coming

I don't see how it would be messed up? Nobody should expect a new engine this year. Two years is no where near enough time to develop a new engine for a game. Most people seem to forget that building a new engine takes years to do and tons of man-power. Most games that bring a new engine with every sequel have four year cycles and over 30+ programmers working on the engine only, not to mention the other things that go with the engine. Most developers will tell their programmers to re-write and recheck the code and adjust accordingly. This is was done to multiple games such as Halo Reach, Skyrim and some other games. These games still have a have the framework of the old games but simply re-gutted and rewrote a lot of aspects of the game to run better and allow more things. This is most likely the case with NBA Live 13.

We need to have a realistic idea of this game in what it will be and what will it do. Can we expect a game with solid gameplay and a steady set of modes and features to keep us playing. If that's the question then yes. But if people expect this game to be the crown savior of basketball games and have every feature and idea they wanted, they will be greatly disappointed. No matter the two year cycle, the NBA Live team will not be able to get everything into the game, there simply is no way to do so. No game has reached perfection and I don't think any game this year will.

Sorry for the long post. Again, I believe this year we will get a great game that will keep us happy and keep us playing.

That is all I'm looking for, Build on live 10 and offer us something different to 2k.

[engrishbwudd]

Re: NBA Elite Name is History, NBA Live 13 is Coming

I think overall Live 13 will be more of the same with a modicum of brilliance. They'll use this year to gain momentum for next, so Live 14 might be where it's at. Though this is total speculation.

[truintellectplaya]

I have a feeling the same people would herald them and reason why it would be ok to keep the E - Lite name


A sports game with a 2 year gaming cycle.. will any excuses be acceptable?

See that's the problem. EA will not have to defend themselves if they do not meet expectations even with a 2 year cycle because there fans will do it for them. They will claim EA is better because of the 2 year cycle regardless. All EA has to do is put out a bug free product and EA fan's will claim upgrade. Which it will be over Elite. This is marketing. The whole year off was a marketing ploy that is why I am not hyped from the hype and marketing.

[Haval93]

Re: NBA Elite Name is History, NBA Live 13 is Coming

Fifa 12 player impact engine was developed in 2 years and now is shared with games like BF3, do your research and you will see. Elite 11 already had a new engine but needed some work and 2 years is more than enough time to work on a engine that already exsist. Even if they borrowed the player impact engine from Fifa all they have to do is animate the characters to play basketball like BF3 animated theirs for war. Same thing for game modes such as be a pro, it is shared in a lot of EA sports games. Nobody is asking for perfection, all most gamers want is just something different from what 2k and EA has offered thus far. No more scripted gameplay is what EA was pushing for and its something that should have been done when Natural Motion's hit the scene and if you are paying attention you will clearly see that all of the great games of this gen is better because of physics.

Im all for having more control over my character vs losing control due to 2 man animations.

Im all for being able to body up due to physics vs using some stupid defensive assist button.

Im all for contact animations being played out in real time vs a system that choose what to play.

Im all for anything can happen.

Look at the level of control Max Payne 3 offer, that's what all these sports games need and hopefully that's what NBA Live is bringing to the table for basketball.

Physics are only a small aspect of the entire engine. The FIFA Impact engine is the same thing as it was in FIFA 11 and FIFA 10, they simply rewrote the logic and added limp contact and collisions. Elite 11 had no new engine, they simply took out the canned animations and let physics do the part, the reason it looked horrible though was because they the physics engine didn't have limp contact and collisions. Even the case with FIFA there still are problems with their contact system because two years wasn't enough time to do everything. There is a huge difference between physics and how players interact. FIFA simply added limp contact which was factored by the physics of the game.

Backbreaker was in development for how many years after they announced it? Almost four years and how many years before it was announced was the engine being developed? The physics engine Backbreaker used was called Euphoria which made the physics engine, but the reason Backbreaker was unique in a sense because everything looked different was because of their Endorphin animation system. That lets the player or character in the game to be moving in real time and react to different situations with correct limp contact. Even Backbreaker has it's faults as well even with all the time to develop it.

As for Battlefield 3; it doesn't use FIFA impact engine. The only thing that Battlefield is using was the ANT system, that is used in other games such as Madden, NCAA, NBA, and other EA Sports games as well. It's an animation system. The engine Battlefield 3 used was Frostbite 2, that was in development from 2008 til the release from late last year.

Didn't know where to go from here, but expecting a new physics engine is possible but their will be a fair amounts of kinks and unfinished aspects of it. Expecting the amount of control and polish of games like Max Payne or other games is simply not going to happen and shouldn't be expected, these games have a much larger team and much more money to develop. Some aspects will be rewritten, but the game simply and shouldn't be starting completely over.

[Jay Jay]

Re: NBA Elite Name is History, NBA Live 13 is Coming

Physics are only a small aspect of the entire engine. The FIFA Impact engine is the same thing as it was in FIFA 11 and FIFA 10, they simply rewrote the logic and added limp contact and collisions. Elite 11 had no new engine, they simply took out the canned animations and let physics do the part, the reason it looked horrible though was because they the physics engine didn't have limp contact and collisions. Even the case with FIFA there still are problems with their contact system because two years wasn't enough time to do everything. There is a huge difference between physics and how players interact. FIFA simply added limp contact which was factored by the physics of the game.

Backbreaker was in development for how many years after they announced it? Almost four years and how many years before it was announced was the engine being developed? The physics engine Backbreaker used was called Euphoria which made the physics engine, but the reason Backbreaker was unique in a sense because everything looked different was because of their Endorphin animation system. That lets the player or character in the game to be moving in real time and react to different situations with correct limp contact. Even Backbreaker has it's faults as well even with all the time to develop it.

As for Battlefield 3; it doesn't use FIFA impact engine. The only thing that Battlefield is using was the ANT system, that is used in other games such as Madden, NCAA, NBA, and other EA Sports games as well. It's an animation system. The engine Battlefield 3 used was Frostbite 2, that was in development from 2008 til the release from late last year.

Didn't know where to go from here, but expecting a new physics engine is possible but their will be a fair amounts of kinks and unfinished aspects of it. Expecting the amount of control and polish of games like Max Payne or other games is simply not going to happen and shouldn't be expected, these games have a much larger team and much more money to develop. Some aspects will be rewritten, but the game simply and shouldn't be starting completely over.

Fifa 11 and 12 have different engines. 11 choose a animation to play back while 12 create animations on the fly based on where the contact was made and other factors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlVpb7Bi_H0

Frostbite 2 is more of a graphics engine that animates the environment such as destructible buildings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln0D3Fx-v3k

Even need for speed the run use frostbite 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWAfxuBoKV4

Frostbite 2 has nothing to do with character animations and that's why Dice was looking at Natural Motions but decided to go with the engine the Fifa team created. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXaFw7aC9GE

Its the same engine with different tech added to them for different types of games.

Now Elite 11 did have a new physics engine you can't just remove all can animations and not apply something their to fill in the hole. Yes it was a new physics engine and no it wasn't complete. All games have physics in them but they can be used in different ways, do some research and you will see.

All EA has done was built off Elite and named it Live again, that's why they're saying the future of basketball and to me all that is saying is that they laid down a good foundation to build off of for the future of NBA Live, but at the same time we still don't know how much is done with all the time they have.

[hesko]

would all these complaints about 2k be valid if y'all had an ea game to compare it to? the same can be said about madden. its kinda weird though when you think about it cause 2k cant afford to take years off to evolve their game like ea can i.e nhl. < remember 2k was beasting out in nhl too before ea's hiatus. but i guess its an ever going cycle. people who were bored with madden and live in 99-00's migrated to 2k, people who felt 2k dropped the ball with mlb, are now show diehards and so on, but instead of trying to monopolize and/or buy out your competition, make a good game thats worthy of competition instead of folding at the table. at the end of the day, i want something thats worth my $60.

[drew_3]

Re: NBA Elite Name is History, NBA Live 13 is Coming

See that's the problem. EA will not have to defend themselves if they do not meet expectations even with a 2 year cycle because there fans will do it for them. They will claim EA is better because of the 2 year cycle regardless. All EA has to do is put out a bug free product and EA fan's will claim upgrade. Which it will be over Elite. This is marketing. The whole year off was a marketing ploy that is why I am not hyped from the hype and marketing.

Yes, and 2K fans never vehemently defend there game to the death do they!?.....Never!

[LionsFanNJ]

I'm kinda leery with Tiburon studio developing the game after what's been going on all these years with the football titles, but I don't want to write it off because of that. Basketball is a different sport with different challenges so who knows. Looking forward to finding out info though


(If the words accurate fast break, Foamposites and deep CAP come up I'm sold btw )

[Haval93]

Re: NBA Elite Name is History, NBA Live 13 is Coming

Fifa 11 and 12 have different engines. 11 choose a animation to play back while 12 create animations on the fly based on where the contact was made and other factors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlVpb7Bi_H0

Frostbite 2 is more of a graphics engine that animates the environment such as destructible buildings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln0D3Fx-v3k

Even need for speed the run use frostbite 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWAfxuBoKV4

Frostbite 2 has nothing to do with character animations and that's why Dice was looking at Natural Motions but decided to go with the engine the Fifa team created. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXaFw7aC9GE

Its the same engine with different tech added to them for different types of games.

Now Elite 11 did have a new physics engine you can't just remove all can animations and not apply something their to fill in the hole. Yes it was a new physics engine and no it wasn't complete. All games have physics in them but they can be used in different ways, do some research and you will see.

All EA has done was built off Elite and named it Live again, that's why they're saying the future of basketball and to me all that is saying is that they laid down a good foundation to build off of for the future of NBA Live, but at the same time we still don't know how much is done with all the time they have.

I don't think you understand what I am trying to say.

Whatever, I am not going to derail this and go back and forth. The only thing I will comment on is the "do some research and you will see" part. One I have done the research. And second I am programmer who has used multiple game engines such as UDK, CryEngine 3, Unity and another software. I am currently developing my own game. I am full aware of how games are made and what they use.

Anyways in the end whatever engine they use or rebuilt, I hope NBA Live 13 will be a great game. Carry on and have a nice day.

[23]

Re: NBA Elite Name is History, NBA Live 13 is Coming

The last thing EA needs to do is to come out talking about they're using another game/sports tactics

Just like the hockey thing didn't go over, fifa aint basketball either and the court and field are two different measurements and so are the running motions

[Subversion]

Re: NBA Elite Name is History, NBA Live 13 is Coming

I don't think you understand what I am trying to say.

Whatever, I am not going to derail this and go back and forth. The only thing I will comment on is the "do some research and you will see" part. One I have done the research. And second I am programmer who has used multiple game engines such as UDK, CryEngine 3, Unity and another software. I am currently developing my own game. I am full aware of how games are made and what they use.

Anyways in the end whatever engine they use or rebuilt, I hope NBA Live 13 will be a great game. Carry on and have a nice day.

I work in the gaming industry. For a game like basketball, it would be pretty hard to implement something like Natural Motion, simply because the consoles are not powerful enough to handle that much processing. All of the collision variables youd have to take into account. So I'm basing my opinion off of what consoles are actually capable. And I dont see how the future of basketball will be displayed in Live 13 when its using 6 year old hardware.

[BlueNGold]

Re: NBA Elite Name is History, NBA Live 13 is Coming

I have to say I'm surprised they've even bothered getting this out for the current systems. At this point I almost feel like they'd just be better off waiting for the new systems to come out (which apparently aren't that far off) and starting fresh then whatever they're doing now.

That said, I am glad they decided to bring out a game this year. It's always better to have 2 options. I'm just curious to see how much they've really changed, or if they just went back and built on what Live 10 did, which I wouldn't have a problem with.

[Jay Jay]

Re: NBA Elite Name is History, NBA Live 13 is Coming

I work in the gaming industry. For a game like basketball, it would be pretty hard to implement something like Natural Motion, simply because the consoles are not powerful enough to handle that much processing. All of the collision variables youd have to take into account. So I'm basing my opinion off of what consoles are actually capable. And I dont see how the future of basketball will be displayed in Live 13 when its using 6 year old hardware.

So I guess it was to powerfull for backbreaker that has 22 players on the feild?

[TreyIM2]

So I guess it was to powerfull for backbreaker that has 22 players on the feild?

Lol. I dunno if Subversion is truly a gaming industry insider but in his defense, Backbreaker wasn't that great. The game seemed very bareboned and I don't know if it could have handled more than it did. Maybe that's apart of why NM didn't create a true sequel to it.