OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

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  • seanjeezy
    The Future
    • Aug 2009
    • 3347

    #1

    OSFM v3: Pitch Edits




    OSFM v3 - Pitch Edits
    PSN: seanjeezy


    Wow, it took forever to get this out, but it's finally here!!!

    Big props to Authentic and ILiveForThis for helping me out, Knight for being responsible for these kick-*** rosters, and Brooks Baseball for all that pitch f/x data

    Here's the link to the spreadsheet again: Link
    Last edited by seanjeezy; 05-06-2012, 11:33 PM.
    Bakin' soda, I got bakin' soda
  • BaylorBearBryant
    Sic 'em Bears!
    • Jun 2004
    • 1536

    #2
    Re: OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

    seanjeezy,

    I can't wait. I'm waiting for these to start my franchise!




    Baylor Bears - Texans - Astros - Rockets - Avalanche


    Follow me on Twitch: twitch.tv/osovideo

    Comment

    • BegBy
      Banned
      • Feb 2009
      • 1212

      #3
      I've been using your pitch edits as a solid base for editing. I thank you for the work you've done and are about do.

      The only things I've changed from your edits are minor tweaks. I take down every pitcher's abilities by 3 and bb by 5. That's not on you...that's the game and the sliders I use. I was sick and tired of no name guys having laser precision with 5 pitches. The only other thing I do is slightly lower some pitch speeds and change a lot of sinkers to 2 seamers. This is all based on watching the actual pitchers play. I have the MLB package so I get to see the pitchers I want and very few guys throw legit sinkers. Most are 2 seamers. The occasional change based on visual appearance of pitches, but that's my personal preference.

      One thing I'll say is you nailed the slider movement. The game gives sliders insane break. For that matter they give slurves too much also, but your slider edits are near perfect. It feels so realistic when you get one that breaks a bit and leaves batters confused.

      You do great work dude and I love it. Easily the best pitch edits out there!

      Comment

      • 37
        Fear The Spear
        • Apr 2011
        • 10346

        #4
        Re: OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

        i assume u have Johan Santana?

        grrr i already started a franchise but ur convincing me to just wait lol
        Steelers | Seminoles | A's | Rockets | Avalanche | Wildcats, Hoosiers | Liverpool

        Comment

        • OSfan093
          Rookie
          • Mar 2011
          • 184

          #5
          Re: OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

          Sounds good. The only thing i'm worried about is the pitch speed you mentioned. I mean i think the speed on the radar gun is what speed we should want in the game. I'm not sure about this 55ft thing, i think the show sort of takes into account any variables like that. Anyway can't wait for this(might be changing all the velocities, i'm not sure, cause they looked ok on that spreadsheet) but overall this is going to complete the game for me. I will finally cave in and start a franchise after v3 and a few tweaks.

          EDIT: And the other thing i was noticing, like someone was saying above, i think you have some sinkers that should be 2SFB. And another thing i noticed was that you may have some Curveballs that need to be Sweeping Curves, and as a consequence of that some SCVs that should possibly be SLVs. but those are hardly big issues. I'm really interested to see how the slider thing works out. I mean it seems like something that would vastly increase the realism of the game, but i'm a little worried at how this will affect pitchers in game. I mean if i have a pitcher with 10 movement on his slider, even though IRL it might be nasty, will it hurt him in game. Like the hitters seem to hit it better? idk.
          Last edited by OSfan093; 04-16-2012, 11:29 PM.

          Comment

          • redsfan4life
            MVP
            • Mar 2005
            • 2763

            #6
            Re: OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

            Looking forward to it as always, here's some info on the Reds...I didn't change the command ratings.

            Johnny Cueto:

            Pitch 1: 2 Seam FB

            Velocity: 82 (93.4 MPH)
            Control: 73
            Break: 68

            Pitch 2: Slider

            Velocity: 44 (82.6 MPH)
            Control: 68
            Break: 70

            Pitch 3: Running FB

            Velocity: 73 (92 MPH)
            Control: 63
            Break: 66

            Pitch 4: Change-up

            Velocity: 24 (83.7 MPH)
            Control: 49
            Break: 65


            Mat Latos

            Pitch 1: Running FB

            Velocity: 80 (93.6 MPH)
            Control: 72
            Break: 50

            Pitch 2: Slider

            Velocity: 47 (83.2 MPH)
            Control: 65
            Break: 58

            Pitch 3: 2 Seam FB

            Velocity: 74 (91.8 MPH)
            Control: 63
            Break: 48

            Pitch 4: Curveball

            Velocity: 58 (77.6 MPH)
            Control: 61
            Break: 72

            Pitch 5: Change up

            Velocity: 31 (82.5 MPH)
            Control: 72
            Break: 64

            Aroldis Chapman

            Just take off the 2 seam FB, he doesn't throw one. Not sure what to do about his stamina, he's still working as a starter and has thrown 5 innings recently, however if he stays in the pen I guess keep it lowish.

            Homer Bailey

            Pitch 1: 4 Seam FB

            Velocity: 65 (92.2 MPH)
            Control: 63
            Break: 68

            Pitch 2: Slider

            Velocity: 63
            Control: 58
            Break: 33

            Pitch 3: 2 Seam FB

            Velocity: 72 (91.5 MPH)
            Control: 55
            Break: 31

            Pitch 4: 12-6 Curve

            Velocity: 55 (76.8 MPH)
            Control: 58
            Break: 56

            Pitch 5: Splitter (acts as his changeup)

            Velocity: 61 (86.6 MPH)
            Control: 42
            Break: 44

            Bronson Arroyo

            Replace his 2 Seam FB with a sinker.

            Pitch 5: Sinker

            Velocity: 47
            Control: 47
            Break: 36

            Velocities as follows:

            4 seam FB: 38 (87 MPH)
            12-6 Curve: 24 (71.8 MPH)
            Slider: 0 (75 MPH)
            Change up: 50 (78.9 MPH)

            Mike Leake

            He's completely off, need to scrap his entire repertoire basically.

            Pitch 1: Cutter

            Velocity: 54 (88.2 MPH)
            Control: 73
            Break: 66

            Pitch 2: Sinker

            Velocity: 59 (88.8 MPH)
            Control: 65
            Break: 63

            Pitch 3: Slider

            Velocity: 42 (82.3 MPH)
            Control: 57
            Break: 59

            Pitch 4: Circle Change

            Velocity: 28 (83 MPH)
            Control: 57
            Break: 59

            Pitch 5: Curveball

            Velocity: 56 (77.0 MPH)
            Control: 61
            Break: 54

            Sean Marshall

            His repertoire is ok, it just needs to be flipped around a bit.

            Pitch 1: Sweeping Curve

            Velocity: 57 (77.3 MPH)
            Control: 58
            Break: 94

            Pitch 2: Slider

            Velocity: 61 (85.4 MPH)
            Control: 89
            Break: 62

            Pitch 3: Running FB

            Velocity: 66 (90.7 MPH)
            Control: 65
            Break: 48

            Pitch 4: Cutter

            Velocity: 44 (86.6 MPH)
            Control: 77
            Break: 61


            Nick Masset is pretty good, just a few small tweaks.

            Pitch 1: 4 Seam FB

            Velocity: 70 (93.6 MPH)
            Control: 61
            Break: 50

            Pitch 2: Curveball

            Velocity: 81 (81.0 MPH)
            Control: 55
            Break: 84

            Pitch 3: Sinker

            Velocity: 54 (88.1 MPH)
            Control: 63
            Break: 41

            Bill Bray

            Pitch 1: Running FB

            Velocity: 64 (90.4 MPH)
            Control: 65
            Break: 50

            Pitch 2: Slider

            Velocity: 58 (84.9 MPH)
            Control: 90
            Break: 89

            Velocity: 16 (85.1 MPH)
            Control: 53
            Break: 66

            Sam LeCure

            Pitch 1: 2 Seam FB

            Velocity: 65 (90.0 MPH)
            Control: 53
            Break: 53

            Pitch 2: 4 Seam FB

            Velocity: 54 (90.2 MPH)
            Control: 53
            Break: 45

            Pitch 3: Slider

            Velocity: 25 (79.3 MPH)
            Control: 53
            Break: 38

            Pitch 4: Change up

            Velocity: 37 (81.2 MPH)
            Control: 49
            Break: 48

            Pitch 5: Curveball

            Velocity: 31 (73.1 MPH)
            Control: 38
            Break: 42

            Jose Arredondo

            Pitch 1: Splitter

            Velocity: 42 (83.9 MPH)
            Control: 49
            Break: 96

            Pitch 2: Running FB

            Velocity: 71 (91.6 MPH)
            Control: 58
            Break: 64

            Pitch 3: Slider

            Velocity: 61 (85.5 MPH)
            Control: 32
            Break: 62

            Logan Ondrusek

            Pitch 1: Cutter

            Velocity: 73 (92.2 MPH)
            Control: 62
            Break: 59

            Pitch 2: Slider

            Velocity: 26 (79.0 MPH)
            Control: 31
            Break: 38

            Pitch 3: Sinker

            Velocity: 86 (93.3 MPH)
            Control: 52
            Break: 59

            Pitch 4: Change up

            Velocity: 34 (81.8 MPH)
            Control: 51
            Break: 40
            PSN: Maserati_Bryan17

            Comment

            • seanjeezy
              The Future
              • Aug 2009
              • 3347

              #7
              Re: OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

              Originally posted by BegBy
              I've been using your pitch edits as a solid base for editing. I thank you for the work you've done and are about do.

              The only things I've changed from your edits are minor tweaks. I take down every pitcher's abilities by 3 and bb by 5. That's not on you...that's the game and the sliders I use. I was sick and tired of no name guys having laser precision with 5 pitches. The only other thing I do is slightly lower some pitch speeds and change a lot of sinkers to 2 seamers. This is all based on watching the actual pitchers play. I have the MLB package so I get to see the pitchers I want and very few guys throw legit sinkers. Most are 2 seamers. The occasional change based on visual appearance of pitches, but that's my personal preference.

              One thing I'll say is you nailed the slider movement. The game gives sliders insane break. For that matter they give slurves too much also, but your slider edits are near perfect. It feels so realistic when you get one that breaks a bit and leaves batters confused.

              You do great work dude and I love it. Easily the best pitch edits out there!
              Finally someone who understands lol, a slider at 87 mph cannot have over a foot of horizontal movement as well, it would defy physics! In regards to Sinker vs 2-Seam, I have formulas for those, If it has twice as much vertical movement in relation to horizontal movement or greater than 22 inches of vertical movement, its a sinker to me. Velocites are a little too hot, I will probably lower them, but no more than 1 mph.


              Originally posted by NoFatGirlz4Me37
              i assume u have Johan Santana?

              grrr i already started a franchise but ur convincing me to just wait lol
              Lol yup I have the big names already noted, you could always start a second franchise!
              Bakin' soda, I got bakin' soda

              Comment

              • 37
                Fear The Spear
                • Apr 2011
                • 10346

                #8
                Re: OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

                Originally posted by seanjeezy
                Finally someone who understands lol, a slider at 87 mph cannot have over a foot of horizontal movement as well, it would defy physics! In regards to Sinker vs 2-Seam, I have formulas for those, If it has twice as much vertical movement in relation to horizontal movement or greater than 22 inches of vertical movement, its a sinker to me. Velocites are a little too hot, I will probably lower them, but no more than 1 mph.




                Lol yup I have the big names already noted, you could always start a second franchise!
                sure but i think imma just wait till u guys are done with v4.....whenever that is lol...might as well play with a fully finished product in every area
                Steelers | Seminoles | A's | Rockets | Avalanche | Wildcats, Hoosiers | Liverpool

                Comment

                • OSfan093
                  Rookie
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 184

                  #9
                  Re: OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

                  Originally posted by seanjeezy
                  Finally someone who understands lol, a slider at 87 mph cannot have over a foot of horizontal movement as well, it would defy physics! In regards to Sinker vs 2-Seam, I have formulas for those, If it has twice as much vertical movement in relation to horizontal movement or greater than 22 inches of vertical movement, its a sinker to me. Velocites are a little too hot, I will probably lower them, but no more than 1 mph.
                  How will this affect the competitive balance when the minor leaguers come up and have really good sliders. Are you planning a sort of mass slider edit for minor leaguers with enough velocity?

                  Comment

                  • thebeaverbutcher
                    Rookie
                    • Mar 2012
                    • 67

                    #10
                    Re: OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

                    Originally posted by OSfan093
                    How will this affect the competitive balance when the minor leaguers come up and have really good sliders. Are you planning a sort of mass slider edit for minor leaguers with enough velocity?
                    Yeah, I kinda have the same question...


                    What would you recommended if we wanted to use the full 0-99 scale for sliders and cutters? I saw all of them, and you explained why they we so low. But I'm thinking ahead for when the CPU generates players, and the minor leaguers aren't on your scale

                    Comment

                    • seanjeezy
                      The Future
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 3347

                      #11
                      Re: OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

                      Originally posted by OSfan093
                      Sounds good. The only thing i'm worried about is the pitch speed you mentioned. I mean i think the speed on the radar gun is what speed we should want in the game. I'm not sure about this 55ft thing, i think the show sort of takes into account any variables like that. Anyway can't wait for this(might be changing all the velocities, i'm not sure, cause they looked ok on that spreadsheet) but overall this is going to complete the game for me. I will finally cave in and start a franchise after v3 and a few tweaks.

                      EDIT: And the other thing i was noticing, like someone was saying above, i think you have some sinkers that should be 2SFB. And another thing i noticed was that you may have some Curveballs that need to be Sweeping Curves, and as a consequence of that some SCVs that should possibly be SLVs. but those are hardly big issues. I'm really interested to see how the slider thing works out. I mean it seems like something that would vastly increase the realism of the game, but i'm a little worried at how this will affect pitchers in game. I mean if i have a pitcher with 10 movement on his slider, even though IRL it might be nasty, will it hurt him in game. Like the hitters seem to hit it better? idk.
                      Regarding pitch types, I forgot to post my movement formulas, I will update the first post.

                      Here's the rundown on pitch types: I am looking solely at numbers, RPM, spin, and charts; I am not taking into account scouting reports, anecdotes, or anything of that nature. Also, do not trust any classifications related to gameday. That includes Fangraphs, Texas Leaguers, Joe Lefkowitz, etc. These sites pull data straight from MLB Gameday and publish the data verbatum. It has been well documented that a large number of the classifications are wrong, Gameday often confuses fastball types, breaking balls, and hard changeups (wow that covers every pitch). Brooks on the other hand, has their staff manually assigning pitch types based on the criteria I listed above, plus hours of video watching. Gameday on the other hand assigns pitches through computer alogrithms, no one looks over the data afterwards.

                      Originally posted by redsfan4life
                      Looking forward to it as always, here's some info on the Reds...I didn't change the command ratings.

                      ...
                      When you gave the Chapman example, I'm assuming SCEA gave him a 2-Seam correct? Currently I have him with a 4-Seam and a slurve, but that was in 2011. Brooks actually has him throwing two splitters so far, that's what I'm gonna go with for his third pitch (as my edits are based off of their site)
                      Bakin' soda, I got bakin' soda

                      Comment

                      • redsfan4life
                        MVP
                        • Mar 2005
                        • 2763

                        #12
                        Re: OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

                        Originally posted by seanjeezy
                        Regarding pitch types, I forgot to post my movement formulas, I will update the first post.

                        Here's the rundown on pitch types: I am looking solely at numbers, RPM, spin, and charts; I am not taking into account scouting reports, anecdotes, or anything of that nature. Also, do not trust any classifications related to gameday. That includes Fangraphs, Texas Leaguers, Joe Lefkowitz, etc. These sites pull data straight from MLB Gameday and publish the data verbatum. It has been well documented that a large number of the classifications are wrong, Gameday often confuses fastball types, breaking balls, and hard changeups (wow that covers every pitch). Brooks on the other hand, has their staff manually assigning pitch types based on the criteria I listed above, plus hours of video watching. Gameday on the other hand assigns pitches through computer alogrithms, no one looks over the data afterwards.



                        When you gave the Chapman example, I'm assuming SCEA gave him a 2-Seam correct? Currently I have him with a 4-Seam and a slurve, but that was in 2011. Brooks actually has him throwing two splitters so far, that's what I'm gonna go with for his third pitch (as my edits are based off of their site)
                        Yeah this year he has definitely added a changeup. But since he throws it at 91 you'd have to classify it as a splitter in game.
                        PSN: Maserati_Bryan17

                        Comment

                        • mmorg
                          MVP
                          • Jul 2004
                          • 2305

                          #13
                          Re: OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

                          Will you be importing the SCEA version of Jamie Moyer into the OSFM roster?
                          Check me out on Twitch and YouTube

                          Comment

                          • BegBy
                            Banned
                            • Feb 2009
                            • 1212

                            #14
                            Originally posted by seanjeezy
                            Finally someone who understands lol, a slider at 87 mph cannot have over a foot of horizontal movement as well, it would defy physics! In regards to Sinker vs 2-Seam, I have formulas for those, If it has twice as much vertical movement in relation to horizontal movement or greater than 22 inches of vertical movement, its a sinker to me. Velocites are a little too hot, I will probably lower them, but no more than 1 mph.
                            Oh no, dude, I agree totally on what defines a sinker, but my issue is really quite simple. Sinkers rarely hit the mid to high 90's, however it's very typical to see a 2 seamer average 93-94 and higher. Couple that with a lot of MLB pitchers just take a bit off and keep their 2 seamer low. It's just a fastball that by design tails off and natural produces ground outs. Also, and this is the main thing for me, in game, CPU controlled pitchers will throw a sinker anywhere. They don't keep it low exclusively, so I hate to see a pitch labelled a sinker whiz by the top of the strike zone at 94 MPH. As I said, it's my personal preference and some of it's based on watching so many (too many) pitchers. As an aside, but directly related - I find sinkers produce way, way, way too many pop ups in this game. The CPU batters get under them all the time. 2 seamers produce 3 times as many grounders in my experience.

                            Your stuff rocks, brother. I tell everyone that your edits for sliders is the single best roster edit I've seen in any sports game in the last 5+ years. You know yourself from playing them...once you face a dude with a slider with 20+ movement and can place it...forget about it. That pitch will fall off the back of the plate on you so often it'll give you fits. Get a lefty with a nasty slider and a hook and you'll win that game 9 times out of ten, no question.

                            I'd like to help if I could. I'm very busy for the next week, maybe week and a half...hence me being up now. After that I'm free, so if you need any help then, don't hesitate to pm me. I'll do anything I can.
                            Last edited by BegBy; 04-17-2012, 01:18 AM.

                            Comment

                            • Jason_19
                              MVP
                              • Aug 2006
                              • 1713

                              #15
                              Re: OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

                              Originally posted by seanjeezy
                              Why is every pitch faster than what is listed in gameday, fangraphs, texas leaguers, etc. ? Brooks Baseball calculates speed 55ft from home plate instead of 60ft to take in account the average major leaguer's release point. Feel free to lower mph 1 tick.
                              I'm glad that you're planning on doing this.

                              Are you going to be looking up 2012 pitch speeds on any other pitch f/x site or are you just going to enter the speeds by taking a certain amount off of each pitch that you already have documented.

                              Either way, have you determined how much you're going to subtract from each pitch type?

                              I can't remember exactly how it worked on MLB 11 when it comes to certain pitches, but I'm pretty sure that I remember that changeups needed to remain the same. Fastballs needed about 1.3-2.3 mph subtracted (depending on the speed and the type of fastball). Sliders needed 1.7-2.3 mph subtracted. I never figured out curveballs, but I think I went with subtracting 1.1-1.3 mph. I think I used the same for slurves.

                              With that said, the softer a pitcher threw their fastball, the more he seemed to need subtracted off of it. For example, guys who had 90 mph fastballs in game seemed to be able to throw 93-94 fairly often and players who averaged 95 seemed to hardly ever throw 97. I ended up subtracting about 1.9-2.3 (depending on the pitcher) mph off of players who averaged 87-93 mph with their fastball and only about 1.7 mph off of players who averaged in the 94-95 range.

                              On top of that, each type of fastball seemed to a little different than the other when it came to this. It seemed like 4 seam fastballs usually needed 1.9-2.3 mph subtracted from their average speed. Sinkers and 2 seam fastballs seemed to need less subtracted.

                              It's been a while since I edited the speeds, so these numbers might not be exactly the way that it was, but it sounds right to me.

                              I definitely wouldn't base any of your edits off of what I just typed. I just wanted to explain what I was asking.

                              The whole in game system is silly and needs to be revamped.

                              Comment

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