Madden NFL 13 Video - Replay Footage and Packers vs. Bears Pre-Game (Pastapadre)

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video - Replay Footage and Packers vs. Bears Pre-Game (Pastapadre)

Instead it's the same outside/in approach of focusing on the skill positions and little attention given to the OL/DL play, versus an inside/out approach that while not as exciting makes more sense long term. I'm sure they've made improvements to the OL/DL on some level, but it'd be nice to see the less glamorous aspects of the gameplay be given as much attention as the QB/WR play received and addressed sooner rather than later. To that end it doesn't seem like things have changed; they always seem like the team that refuses to draft an offensive lineman because they're normally not sexy picks.

I'm not going to present anything that's going to change anyone's mind, but I would like to respond to this.

Here's something Taz just stated in another thread:

The average fan won't be able to tell if it really executes properly.

(for context, he was talking about something that had to do w/ the OL/DL interaction)

All things being equal, we'd all agree that both the passing game and OL/DL interactions needed an overhaul. Ideally, we'd like both addressed in the same cycle. If that can't happen, then a decision has to be made and I think that's the signifigance of Taz's post.

If they had the flexibility to only address passing or OL/DL, then I think they went with the right option. It's not so much about working outside/inside or going with the sexier option (although that's probably part of it). I think what sways a decision is bang-for-their-development-buck.

Let's take Madden out of the equation and think about the average football fan: do they understand principles of OL/DL battles? Do they know the signifigance of a stunt? Do they even know what a kickslide is? Sure some fans do, but a significant number could care less.

Hell, I think we're just now seeing some fans want to dig deeper into the game as evidenced by the emergence of hardcore sites such as profootballfocus.com. Even here at OS, you can tell who knows about trench work and who's just regurgitating what they've read from other knowledgeable OSers.

So again, I don't think it's as cut & dry as going with the sexy pick (borrowing your draft metaphor). We all understand that the end-game is to move units. I think it makes more sense to make necessary changes to the passing game as more people are going to notice and appreciate those.

That said, I firmly believe OL/DL is on their immediate radar.

[LBzrule]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video - Replay Footage and Packers vs. Bears Pre-Game (Pastapadre)

I'm not going to present anything that's going to change anyone's mind, but I would like to respond to this.

Here's something Taz just stated in another thread:



(for context, he was talking about something that had to do w/ the OL/DL interaction)

All things being equal, we'd all agree that both the passing game and OL/DL interactions needed an overhaul. Ideally, we'd like both addressed in the same cycle. If that can't happen, then a decision has to be made and I think that's the signifigance of Taz's post.

If they had the flexibility to only address passing or OL/DL, then I think they went with the right option. It's not so much about working outside/inside or going with the sexier option (although that's probably part of it). I think what sways a decision is bang-for-their-development-buck.

Let's take Madden out of the equation and think about the average football fan: do they understand principles of OL/DL battles? Do they know the signifigance of a stunt? Do they even know what a kickslide is? Sure some fans do, but a significant number could care less.

Hell, I think we're just now seeing some fans want to dig deeper into the game as evidenced by the emergence of hardcore sites such as profootballfocus.com. Even here at OS, you can tell who knows about trench work and who's just regurgitating what they've read from other knowledgeable OSers.

So again, I don't think it's as cut & dry as going with the sexy pick (borrowing your draft metaphor). We all understand that the end-game is to move units. I think it makes more sense to make necessary changes to the passing game as more people are going to notice and appreciate those.

That said, I firmly believe OL/DL is on their immediate radar.

I think you are right with respect to the fans. Most of them are not going to even look at it. The other thing I will add is that I think the decision they made to not overhaul it this year is because OL/DL is the most difficult work to do in a football game. WR/DB was/is easier to deal with pending on how deep a developer wants this to be. I hope it will have some depth to it. Back to OL/DL. Once you make the decision that your DL and OL are no longer tied to each other, now you open up a big a$$ can of worms that you better know what the hell you are doing once you go down that road. It took 2k 2 years to write that for 2k8 and they were going to add to it. It is by far the best pass blocking to date and they were not done with it. But with their play system the way it was, namely OL/DL already not tied together that made it a bit "easier" for them to pull off. EA will be starting from the ground up with OL/DL. Pivotal decisions will need to be made from the jump. Do they leave the play system alone or do they now decided to go with tiered defensive play calling? Lots of decisions have to be made before they jump into this.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video - Replay Footage and Packers vs. Bears Pre-Game (Pastapadre)

Great post Rgiles and it helps put things in better perspective, imo.

It absolutely makes far more practical and business sense to tie in an OL/DL overhaul with some other far more celebrated aspect of football, like say the running game. I can definitely picture even the casual football fan getting far more excited and interested in a completely redone OL/DL system in context with marketing a new running system and movement animations.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video - Replay Footage and Packers vs. Bears Pre-Game (Pastapadre)

I think you are right with respect to the fans. Most of them are not going to even look at it. The other thing I will add is that I think the decision they made to not overhaul it this year is because OL/DL is the most difficult work to do in a football game. WR/DB was/is easier to deal with pending on how deep a developer wants this to be. I hope it will have some depth to it. Back to OL/DL. Once you make the decision that your DL and OL are no longer tied to each other, now you open up a big a$$ can of worms that you better know what the hell you are doing once you go down that road. It took 2k 2 years to write that for 2k8 and they were going to add to it. It is by far the best pass blocking to date and they were not done with it. But with their play system the way it was, namely OL/DL already not tied together that made it a bit "easier" for them to pull off. EA will be starting from the ground up with OL/DL. Pivotal decisions will need to be made from the jump. Do they leave the play system alone or do they now decided to go with tiered defensive play calling? Lots of decisions have to be made before they jump into this.

Russ and LB - great posts...

The bolded text is something I find VERY interesting... I guess my question is, why was 2k able to do this (obviously several years ago) and the big mammoth company who has endless resources and the exclusive license still has not?

[KyrieIrving]

Hat interception around 25-30 was amazinly played out, i hope we see that more often

[LBzrule]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video - Replay Footage and Packers vs. Bears Pre-Game (Pastapadre)

Russ and LB - great posts...

The bolded text is something I find VERY interesting... I guess my question is, why was 2k able to do this (obviously several years ago) and the big mammoth company who has endless resources and the exclusive license still has not?

My biggest guess is that from the previous gen, 2k already had the plan of revamping the OL. They made that decision and went to work on it. Secondly, I think their play set for defense allowed them to make this decision easily. They went ahead and did the hard work of re-working the play set for defense when they did 2k4. This goes back to decisions made previous impact later decisions. I think EA may develop their own way or working out OL/DL. We'll see. Interestingly, I don't think they will renew the NFL license. They will finally have their game on next gen matching everything their competitor had on last gen so then they wouldn't care. Just my opinion. Can't be proved.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video - Replay Footage and Packers vs. Bears Pre-Game (Pastapadre)

Let's take Madden out of the equation and think about the average football fan: do they understand principles of OL/DL battles? Do they know the signifigance of a stunt? Do they even know what a kickslide is? Sure some fans do, but a significant number could care less.

It's a shame, generally speaking, that the lines aren't looked at with more awe. I find a certain beauty in what goes on in the trenches. It's where the game is made and broken in real life football and its virtual counter.

And speaking of the kickslide, I'm counting the days until I can see this in Madden:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/h1K-43g_RLw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

...instead of this:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/n4ZgAJdF2Yg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

^This has got to go. I'm with rgiles in that I believe they feel the same way, Clint especially.

[darknmild]

Not much to say about the vid that hasn't already been said. Thanks for saving me some time PG. Much easier to just like everything you said.
I see neither of you post here much, but this is the type of passive aggressive, immature nonsense that moves threads towards being locked. Have some respect for people's opinions. If you're happy with the imrpvoements, excellent. But don't insult folks that don't feel the same.

Many here are pretty good at expressing & explaining themselves. I bet if you address someone directly, they'd be happy to tell you why they're not as impressed as you.

it goes both ways.

[darknmild]

it goes both ways.

Disregard my last post

[balcobomber25]

As happens EVERY year, the EA fanboys see 3 minutes of carefully selected game footage and proclaim this to be the greatest game ever and jump all over anyone who proclaims otherwise....

[PVarck31]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video - Replay Footage and Packers vs. Bears Pre-Game (Pastapadre)

As happens EVERY year, the EA fanboys see 3 minutes of carefully selected game footage and proclaim this to be the greatest game ever and jump all over anyone who proclaims otherwise....

You won't last too long around here calling people fan boys. Just sayin.

[Goodydog]

Want to send a shot out (shout-out) to PGait & Taz for trying to set the record straight...
Eyes are finally opening.

[pcoz2000]

Madden sucks!

[BestServedCold]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video - Replay Footage and Packers vs. Bears Pre-Game (Pastapadre)

As happens EVERY year, the EA fanboys see 3 minutes of carefully selected game footage and proclaim this to be the greatest game ever and jump all over anyone who proclaims otherwise....

Madden is almost like a religion

[Robby73]

This is exactly the post I was going to write. Thanks PG, you saved me the trouble of finding the right words. I'm what you would consider an "old timer". I started playing Madden in 1988, you know, probably around the time most of you were born. There was an incarnation of Madden on the computer before the Genesis version. I've played damn near every football game ever made. I had them all. This Madden LOOKS good, but nothing is REALLY popping out at me. It's the same MO, which is the frustration you are seeing from people in this thread. These improvements, if they work as advertised, are all great. However, basic player movement, warping, leaping, and ridiculous acts that defy every law of physics is what destroys this game. Basic line interaction which is done so perfectly in other older games destroys this game. Nothing tells me the players are actually alive. They are robots. I'm willing to bet that the same issue plaguing all of the other Madden's will be there as well - when the ball is about to leave the QB's hand, all 11 defenders will stop on a dime and begin to move towards the ball. EA sees dollar signs, but they can't see the forest through the trees. The videos they are showing do not look much different than the videos I saw for M11 and M12. It always looks impressive showing the high resolution replays and those finer details, but when you are actually playing the game, it doesn't look like that. No one has ever questioned how Madden looks. It looks AMAZING - the art team has done a tremendous job. It's when you start actually playing it where it all goes awry. As of right now, I'm passing on this game. People can label me what they want, but I'm not 12 so I don't subscribe to that ridiculous "*****" terminology. I'm a realist. I have no angst towards EA, I could care less about the company. I care about the football. The challenge system, penalties, player movement and cutting without momentum, warping/teleporting, terrible OL/DL interaction, no real pocket, etc. etc. are all still going to be left on the table and I'll be told to wait until "next year". Tiburon has their work cut out for them to keep their classic customer base. Maybe they don't care too, since younger kids today will be buying this game and think it's amazing. They can play as their favorite team and score 50 points on the Ravens defense. It will be exciting to watch catches in triple coverage, Patrick Willis cover Calvin Johnson step for step and have Adrian Peterson plow through an entire defense 4 times a game while zig zagging through defenders on his way to the end zone.

Oh well, there's always next gen.

talk about zig zag down field I remember when i was teen myself playing a game called tecmo bowl ,you older guys have to remember bo jackson. I tend to agree with what you say but at the same time i had alot of fun in my days with tecmo, lol and now you couldnt pay me to play it, but that was the game back then though and i loved it..