Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but the icons don't blink or flash, they just don't appear until the receiver is looking. It's not like you can't throw the ball. I am all for options though, so I feel you.

If you mean they literally disappear until the receiver is expecting the ball, I don't think that's how it works. They seem to be "faded/grayed out" or transparent, then become "lit up" or fully solid when the receiver is expecting the ball.

On another note, I have long wanted an option to completely get rid of pass icons and instead custom map or designated the button for each receiver pregame and preplay.

I think the more that can be done to add optional mechanics to diminish the requirement for arcadey visual meters and indicators in any simulation video game, the better the overall immersion.

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

I know that I've heard the devs on both games say that the icons don't light up until the receiver is actually "looking for the ball", but from what I've seen, it looks like the icon lights up when the receiver reaches a certain point in his route -- not when he's looking, but when the timing is right to throw. In one of the NCAA vids and in a Madden one, I saw a receiver's icon light up while his back was still to the QB.

You're right -- it's not always an indicator of when the receiver is actually looking. The way it's tuned allows you to anticipate your throws like the pros do.

There were times I could throw the ball prior to his icon turning on b/c I knew the receiver would get his head around before the ball got there.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

If you mean they literally disappear until the receiver is expecting the ball, I don't think that's how it works. They seem to be "faded/grayed out" or transparent, then become "lit up" or fully solid when the receiver is expecting the ball.

On another note, I have long wanted an option to completely get rid of pass icons and instead custom map or designated the button for each receiver pregame and preplay.

I think the more that can be done to add optional mechanics to diminish the requirement for arcadey visual meters and indicators in any simulation video game, the better the overall immersion.

Being the old fart that I am, I do believe there were games back in the day that actually allowed for NOT having passing icons. it gave a much more "free" feeling when it came to passing and added a lot more challenge. I think it was an iteration of Joe Montana football on the Genesis, but I could be mistaken. I really think it would be awesome and would add to the challenge of passing. I think the problem lies within the implementation of Madden's passing game. There seem to be too many "hot and cold" spots on the field that result in pre-determined outcomes when you throw the ball. I hate that. it gives you the feeling the play was scripted from the beginning regardless of your decisions or your execution. There should be a lot more incomplete passes in Madden to go along with many less interceptions. Passing should be difficult due to the combination of the proper timing between the QB and receiver AND the defensive positioning on the field AND the athletic abilities of the players involved. Not because I threw it when the receiver was in a dead spot, or the defender warped and made a superhuman physical move to get to the ball.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

Agreed on all counts here as well. It is a glaring indication (as I stated in another post last week) that the emphasis from Tiburon is still on a casual arcade player who needs help. User catching will now be easier because they want the casual, one game per week guy or 10 year old to be able to feel like he has user control. I'll reserve judgement until i try it out, but right now, I'm not overly impressed. The idea of it and the intention is good, but once again, the implementation appears to suck, like most things in Madden. I am really fairly certain that the Madden team does not have the best of programmers. The design is fairly sound (and it should be since you have the biggest blueprint on earth for your designs - the actual NFL) but the implementation is usually pretty poor. We'll have to wait and see what the demo says.

It's funny how I seem to have a totally different POV about the new User catch assist than most people. lol

I couldn't stand the way in M12, a User could take control of a receiver and completely run off the route all over the field, like some chicken with its' head cut off but still get back to make the catch. It seems that this feature, along with the alleged more realistic ball flight speeds, will make that "tactic" less effective.

I could be completely or partially fooling myself but I get the sense that this EA football team wants and plans to subtly and sometimes blatantly "encourage" realistic game play. Like I stated before, it's not being touted a lot by the devs but Shopmaster mentioned in his impressions "Gone are the days of dropping back 20 yards and throwing the ball on a rope" but the devs are simply generally stating "it's more realistic to just let the QB auto dropback if you don't know the proper depth". lol

While marketing speak is still understandably casual friendly, that doesn't seem to apply as much to the core game design, as in the past, imo.

[SteelerSpartan]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

Don't forget guys....this is all a part of helping the cpu QBs progression too....I think they were really aiming to try an get more targets for the 1WRs

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

It's funny how I seem to have a totally different POV about the new User catch assist than most people. lol

I couldn't stand the way in M12, a User could take control of a receiver and completely run off the route all over the field, like some chicken with its' head cut off but still get back to make the catch. It seems that this feature, along with the alleged more realistic ball flight speeds, will make that "tactic" less effective.

I could be completely or partially fooling myself but I get the sense that this EA football team wants and plans to subtly and sometimes blatantly "encourage" realistic game play. Like I stated before, it's not being touted a lot by the devs but Shopmaster mentioned in his impressions "Gone are the days of dropping back 20 yards and throwing the ball on a rope" but the devs are simply generally stating "it's more realistic to just let the QB auto dropback if you don't know the proper depth". lol

While marketing speak is still understandably casual friendly, that doesn't seem to apply as much to the core game design, as in the past, imo.

that's encouraging to hear. Just when i saw that they wanted to make user catching "easier", I cringed. I agree 100% that I could not STAND it when a guy would circle around foolishly and then make a crazy leaping catch. However, I did feel that it was too easy to make a circus catch in coverage. I could literally make 4 or 5 ridiculous catches a game with Hakeem Nicks by simply lofting it up into coverage. It was terrible. 4 or 5 of those types of catches in a SEASON is crazy, never mind 4 or 5 in a game.

[Illustrator76]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

It's funny how I seem to have a totally different POV about the new User catch assist than most people. lol

I couldn't stand the way in M12, a User could take control of a receiver and completely run off the route all over the field, like some chicken with its' head cut off but still get back to make the catch. It seems that this feature, along with the alleged more realistic ball flight speeds, will make that "tactic" less effective.

I could be completely or partially fooling myself but I get the sense that this EA football team wants and plans to subtly and sometimes blatantly "encourage" realistic game play. Like I stated before, it's not being touted a lot by the devs but Shopmaster mentioned in his impressions "Gone are the days of dropping back 20 yards and throwing the ball on a rope" but the devs are simply generally stating "it's more realistic to just let the QB auto dropback if you don't know the proper depth". lol

While marketing speak is still understandably casual friendly, that doesn't seem to apply as much to the core game design, as in the past, imo.

I think you are reaching my friend, because you want so badly for Madden 13 to be good. The devs have already stated that they want to make user catching "easier", combine that with the fact that they also said that you can still throw the ball "when the receiver isn't ready" and manually take over the WR to attempt a user catch (along with zig-zagging still appearing very prominently), and you can color me extremely concerned. I can't say for sure who this dev team is "targeting", but until they stop sacrificing realism for the sake of being so extremely "user friendly", then I think the hardcore guys are going to continue to be disappointed.

This is honestly the LEAST hyped for Madden and NCAA that I think I have ever been. I'm just tired of the band-aid fixes and head-scratching additions (e.g. the aforementioned dimmed out passing icons).

I'M TIRED OF THIS MESS, FOR GOD'S SAKE I WANT REAL FOOTBALL. Little Timmy can go play Madden Arcade.

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but the icons don't blink or flash, they just don't appear until the receiver is looking. It's not like you can't throw the ball. I am all for options though, so I feel you.

Exactly -- that's why I think CMLeague was on point when he said people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. It seems like some sort of distraction when you play it out in your mind, but once you play the game, it's something subtle that adds a layer of realism to the game.

We're all entitled to different opinions, but I certainly wouldn't label some sort of training wheels. It was perhaps my favorite gameplay enhancement when I played the game in February. It added a game within a game.

I recall playing against Azure (Sim Standard). Of course I had my Cowboys. One of my go to plays is hit Witten on a streak or post coming off the LOS. With the receiver awareness, when I fired the pass, it hit him in the back. I was salty, but I loved it.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

If you mean they literally disappear until the receiver is expecting the ball, I don't think that's how it works. They seem to be "faded/grayed out" or transparent, then become "lit up" or fully solid when the receiver is expecting the ball.

On another note, I have long wanted an option to completely get rid of pass icons and instead custom map or designated the button for each receiver pregame and preplay.

I think the more that can be done to add optional mechanics to diminish the requirement for arcadey visual meters and indicators in any simulation video game, the better the overall immersion.

Yeah you're right, they are faded. The only problem I have already is it's not working as advertised already, because the icons are still there when guys aren't looking. Maybe they're still tweaking it.

Honestly I don't have a problem with the icon passing system. It's the only way I'd want to play the game.

[Smoke6]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

that's encouraging to hear. Just when i saw that they wanted to make user catching "easier", I cringed. I agree 100% that I could not STAND it when a guy would circle around foolishly and then make a crazy leaping catch. However, I did feel that it was too easy to make a circus catch in coverage. I could literally make 4 or 5 ridiculous catches a game with Hakeem Nicks by simply lofting it up into coverage. It was terrible. 4 or 5 of those types of catches in a SEASON is crazy, never mind 4 or 5 in a game.

This happens on the opposite side of the ball, players circle around pre snap and are still bale to make a play and react to the ball after/during all of this. The turn speed ratio (whatever its called) needs to be fine tuned to eliminate this.

I hate seeing people doing it on offense, it looks silly and doesnt even happen in the game it suppose to represent. Here's hoping, but I would love to know if collision detection works properly because there is nothing worse than seeing a guy collide with a defender only to still come at you full sprint.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

Being the old fart that I am, I do believe there were games back in the day that actually allowed for NOT having passing icons. it gave a much more "free" feeling when it came to passing and added a lot more challenge. I think it was an iteration of Joe Montana football on the Genesis, but I could be mistaken. I really think it would be awesome and would add to the challenge of passing. I think the problem lies within the implementation of Madden's passing game. There seem to be too many "hot and cold" spots on the field that result in pre-determined outcomes when you throw the ball. I hate that. it gives you the feeling the play was scripted from the beginning regardless of your decisions or your execution. There should be a lot more incomplete passes in Madden to go along with many less interceptions. Passing should be difficult due to the combination of the proper timing between the QB and receiver AND the defensive positioning on the field AND the athletic abilities of the players involved. Not because I threw it when the receiver was in a dead spot, or the defender warped and made a superhuman physical move to get to the ball.

You know I could go on and on about there being more difficultly to completing passes than what M12 seems to represent but I don't want to frustrate myself. lol

Your post did just jog my memory about them talking about a new tool that allows them to tune catch animations in about 15 minutes though. So if any of you CD attendees could ask is there any way they can tune the more spectacular catch animations and ALL the one handed catch animations, to less frequently result in a catch. Meaning, I am not sure if there are two different animations for each type of catch attempt, one for a successful catch and another for a dropped pass or just one catch attempt animation that is either successful or not. Either way, I am hoping that tuning tool can cause the harder catch animations that trigger, to result in far more drops, than catches.

I hope people understand what I am trying to say. lol

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

You know I could go on and on about there being more difficultly to completing passes than what M12 seems to represent but I don't want to frustrate myself. lol

Your post did just jog my memory about them talking about a new tool that allows them to tune catch animations in about 15 minutes though. So if any of you CD attendees could ask is there any way they can tune the more spectacular catch animations and ALL the one handed catch animations, to less frequently result in a catch. Meaning, I am not sure if there are two different animations for each type of catch attempt, one for a successful catch and another for a dropped pass or just one catch attempt animation that is either successful or not. Either way, I am hoping that tuning tool can cause the harder catch animations that trigger, to result in far more drops, than catches.

I hope people understand what I am trying to say. lol

I don't think i want to see more "drops" per se. I'll tell you what I want to see more of. In their trailer, they had a fade route that was thrown and the WR (I think it was Bowe) had good position, and the corner was behind him, when the ball got there, the corner hit Bowe with both his body AND his hands (near the ball), and he knocked the ball out while knocking Bowe off balance. It was one of the best animation sequences I have seen in ANY football game. However, what concerns me is that these types of things don't happen enough within the correct context. The corner didn't appear to rotate around or warp. He simply made a play on the receiver and the ball like a real corner would. Sometimes, Bowe catches that ball because he's big and strong, and that's realistic, but more often than not, that play results in what we saw in the trailer. Same thing with other passes. One of the reasons why it's far too easy to convert 3rd and a mile in Madden is the amount of success you can have with deeper passes. As I throw those deeper passes my success rate should drop significantly, even with superior athletes. How many 3rd and 19s have you seen converted in a real NFL season? If you saw two TOTAL by all teams combined, that is a lot. I can tell you that in a typical madden game, you'll see several.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

I hear you Taz but what I am getting at is this, If Calvin Johnson is wide open but the QB throws an inaccurate pass that Johnson has to try to make a one hand grab at, I don't want that being a catch just because that's Johnson wide open. Regardless of the coverage, a catch like that is not routine during a game.

We all agree that a one hand catch should be very difficult while being hit or well defended but I want the basic difficulty of certain catch attempts represented too.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

I hear you Taz but what I am getting at is this, If Calvin Johnson is wide open but the QB throws an inaccurate pass that Johnson has to try to make a one hand grab at, I don't want that being a catch just because that's Johnson wide open. Regardless of the coverage, a catch like that is not routine during a game.

We all agree that a one hand catch should be very difficult while being hit or well defended but I want the basic difficulty of certain catch attempts represented too.

Oh most definitely, I'm 100% with you on this. We've actually talked about this before on chat. The balance between realism and success. I agree totally that these catches should not be automatic, and in the current state of Madden, they just that.

[KingV2k3]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Gameplay Impressions

Very interested in how this icon thing plays out...

As a Madden vet, not only don't I want or need help picking a receiver, I prefer as "clean" (broadcast) look as possible in ALL sports titles...

I don't have names, icons, ANYTHING on the screen that isn't IRL/ Broadcast...

So, if anyone is keeping "score" put me down for "toggle on / off" option...

It can be there (gameplay-wise), as long as I don't HAVE to look at it...