Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

[ODogg]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

From what I have gathered over the years regarding penalties, this is the second time I have heard that we dont want penalties in a game thats supposed simulate the sport of football. Now my knowledge of other sports isnt as great as maddens, but im sure NBA2K and the show arent missing critical penalties in a game where its really needed.

Im so sick of running plays out of my playbook and my opponents AI clearly impedes on the process of my players running their routes. No PI is called nor is there any illegal contact after 5yds from the manual players out there who do it intentionally. Not having Pass interference in Madden is just as crucial hitting the batter with a pitch and the batter gets another swing with the bases full.

We should be beyond this and madden should never go without penalties even if most are rarely called. PI has been absent from the game for a while, and illegal touching of the ball has been #2 on my list for ages as players run out of bounds and back in making catches in the endzone or the sideline.

But I would love to see proof of this claim that we dont want penalties in a SIM game because it would be too real. I would love it just for the sake of people actually spending time enjoying the game instead of labbing gimmicks that would get any head coach fired his first year thinking all his players can Rocket Catch every down, or calling a nano blitz on defense when no such thing exist in a the form of a direct play.

EA will not release their marketing data but they have stated the public doesn't want too many penalties, that's why you usually see 1, if any, called in a game. EA believes people want to know the game has penalties but they are rarely called.

I agree with you that I'd like more penalties and more importantly would like the sliders to work as they should work but that's just what EA has said. So don't feel as if EA can't do it, they simply choose not to based on what the public has told them.

BTW - I don't doubt that the public doesn't want any penalties. From playing NCAA & Madden with casual friends and people online I can tell you people get really irate with just about any penalty that's called. Yes if you ask them they'd tell you it's unrealistic not to have penalties and they want them but in an actual game they usually throw a fit if a penalty is called on them and scream how much it's bs and whatnot. I don't like it but that's just the way it is..

[Smoke6]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

I can relate to this POV but I feel Casey too. When information first started to drop in the NCAA forum for 13 about sights and sounds, there were people already complaining about game play. There are times when some people just seemed convinced the game is horrible before even hearing anything about it. Even given the history of next-gen Madden and imo Madden period, I don't understand some of this stuff. People clamor for change but as the "change" that has been made is being explained, they scream "that's not change" or "not enough change" before hearing everything.

I agree with a lot you have to say Big F, but I have to disagree here...

We dont want information about sounds and sights first, every year they do this, the most critical aspects of the game go untouched and we get the PR line "We ran out of time, maybe next year"! along with the draggin out of releasing info on whats to come from that madden.

The trickling is for kids, kids do not have jobs as the masses who buy madden on release day are grown ups like you and me. eventually those kids will grow up and want something more along the lines of what we're aiming at here.

If gameplay is the most talked about waited on feature, then why pull our strings with dates on when this will be discussed when it should be forefront and center stage and everything after fall into place?

There's no eating crow here as madden is not where most of us think it should have been by now. They're complaining for the fact EA has said it couldnt be done on this engine or this gen and yet 3,4,5yrs later here it is. So something has to be missing from the game to make these introductions of new features work or someone has some explaining to do. Because the last 7 years has been excuses to why its not in.

Franchise modes get untouched,

We get a barebones afterthought community feature thats been asked for a long time ago and even you Big F have asked for something similar to cater to the realistic nature we want from them.

The blatant cheating in online games and nothing being done about the perps who abuse the game.

But yet again, its a wait and see approach and thus the cycle will eventually start all over again as I pointed out earlier about the guys who go looking for trouble in these games in order for them to play it will always ruin it for everyone. We cant just hide and tuck our tales running away from modes which we try to enjoy because people want the easy way out and want pre determined wins.

Oh and I doubt their will be too much left to hear from them man, these are changes we asked for years ago, and has this console life cycles fades out, now we're getting them only to miss them nex gen!

[Smoke6]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

EA will not release their marketing data but they have stated the public doesn't want too many penalties, that's why you usually see 1, if any, called in a game. EA believes people want to know the game has penalties but they are rarely called.

I agree with you that I'd like more penalties and more importantly would like the sliders to work as they should work but that's just what EA has said. So don't feel as if EA can't do it, they simply choose not to based on what the public has told them.

BTW - I don't doubt that the public doesn't want any penalties. From playing NCAA & Madden with casual friends and people online I can tell you people get really irate with just about any penalty that's called. Yes if you ask them they'd tell you it's unrealistic not to have penalties and they want them but in an actual game they usually throw a fit if a penalty is called on them and scream how much it's bs and whatnot. I don't like it but that's just the way it is..

But isnt this the point of having penalties?

It happens all the time in the NFL, coaches get irate over almost every penalty called. Thats what makes watching it on Sundays and the sport itself so spectacular!

But I agree with what you are saying!

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

Good post. Now some counter points. The problem I have with it is that they don't ever put everything together. In 7 years of development, the franchise mode is weak, online franchise is incomplete, line interaction is still awful, tackling is just now getting right, ball physics are bad, penalties don't exist or work properly, the challenge system is broken, running and player movement is abysmal... Shall I go on?

They've had more than enough time to address all of this. I said this a long time ago, with success comes arrogance and complacency. Tiburon suffers greatly from both. I'd have been really impressed if they fixed all of what I listed above. They have enough developers and plenty of resources to do it. You'll never convince me that it wasn't done by design. They want to purposely leave these things out to make people interested next year.

Removing the suction and improving zone defense were great. However, all for nothing since defenders can warp and teleport to the ball when they are running the opposite way. It's a constant fight to get this product to simulate real football.

Valid points Taz but the bold is truly more they "haven't" up til now. My stance is Madden will get more realistic because that is what EA now believes the market dictates. So with regard to the last 6-7 years, I don't think that was the case, from EA's standpoint. I am not getting into that whole "blame the suits" theory because the devs were still responsible for implementing whatever was put in those games. However, what I am saying is that whatever is happening now, has some uniquely different aspects than past years, imo.

Every person has to set there own standard for what they consider substantial change. For some it's OL/DL overhaul, others authentic run fits, still others redone player movement, etc but everyone sets the bar differently. I don't begrudge anyone for just venting about the game because I think that's what the forums are for too but I don't understand those that get frustrated simply because someone else doesn't feel the way they do about the game, either way.

Now speaking directly to you, Illy and others I have actually enjoyed playing M12 with, don't bail now. lol. M13 seems to be shaping up to be far more long term enjoyable and immersive, not just better, than any of the other editions we have manage to tolerate this gen, in addition to some of our biggest shared beefs seeming to have been addressed.

No matter how M13 turns out the one thing EA can not provide is quality standup gamers that want to play NFL football, not arcade games. So I would hate to see gamers like that remove themsleves from the player pool, especially just when things might be turning around.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

@Smoke, there are times when I can't think about Madden and this whole exclusive NFL license contract without getting frustrated but that's when I know it's time take a mental break. I am not suggesting people shouldn't feel the way they feel about whatever but they can control how they react.

If EA decides to release sights and sounds ahead of game play, that is what it is and aside from posting about how we would like to see that changed next year, I don't see how deep that topic could be. It's seems far better to discuss the actual sights and sounds but again, people can and do discuss whatever they like. lol

My main goal in regards to entertainment is to enjoy myself for as long as I can and that extends to posting on OS. So if it gets to the point where posting on OS, playing Madden or both are no longer entertaining, I take a break and try again later.

[johnnyg713]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

Game developers have the toughest jobs. Especially Sports game developers. They have only 1 year to make changes to the game. They have to have realistic goals, or else the game wont be done on time, or they could potentially screw the game up completely. Think about it, many games are developed for 2 or 3 years. If the game's not ready they can push back the release date. Sports games do not have this luxury. Imagine if madden didn't come out on time this year because they needed more time with development? People would go crazy.

Another thing a lot of you guys need to consider. How much do you think these devs make a year? No where close to enough to make them wake up everyday and say "OMG I need to work on this game non-stop for 12 hours without taking any breaks and Im going to enjoy every second of it!"

At my job I am assigned anywhere from 6-8 weeks to get something done. If I worked hard and put all my attention into my work, I could most likely get it done in 2-3 weeks. You better damn well believe I'm gonna take as much time as my boss gives me. Want me to get it done faster? Pay me more. As long as my boss is happy with my work and I get it done in the time he assigns, then nothing else matters. I imagine game development is no different.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

Game developers have the toughest jobs. Especially Sports game developers. They have only 1 year to make changes to the game. They have to have realistic goals, or else the game wont be done on time, or they could potentially screw the game up completely. Think about it, many games are developed for 2 or 3 years, if its not ready they can push back the release date. Sports games do not have this luxury. Imagine if madden didn't come out on time this year because they needed more time with development? People would go crazy.

Another thing a lot of you guys need to consider. How much do you think these devs make a year? No where close than enough to make them wake up everyday and say "OMG I need to work on this game non-stop for 12 hours without taking any breaks because it's so important to me!"

At my job I am assigned anywhere from 6-8 weeks to get something done. If I worked hard and put all my attention into my work, I could most likely get it done in 2-3 weeks. You better damn well believe I'm gonna take as much time as my boss gives me. I imagine game development is no different.

While I appreciate the intent of your post, most of this is actually not correct. The assumption that everything that shows up in a madden game has been developed in the 9 month cycle is a complete myth. Same with all of the other sports games. Most of the stuff currently in madden today has more than likely taken multiple dev cycles to finally reach the product. In reality, they are not hindered by the one year cycle. In the 7 years they have had on this generation of consoles, they could have been building on top of existing code that has been extended/tweaked over the course of the franchise. This is how software is built, not just games. That's why there are newer versions that come out. The later versions should always improve upon the previous version, sometimes by a high magnitude. This is one of my biggest problems with the dev team from Tiburon. They've wasted years and have not built on top of what they already had. Nothing has advanced because it's mainly fluff, while the more difficult items like AI, line interactions, player assignments, run fits, player movement and other items have mainly gone untouched. These areas would take some serious work to fix, and without any competition pushing them to do so, is not worth the heavy investment. Dealing with some disgruntled long time buyers is completely acceptable to the marketing team at EA, because they know that the newer gamers will buy the game and take their place because they don't know any better.

I've been in software development my entire career, a release date is not something that prevents work from being done. A release date may simply be a cutoff for the feature to make it in that particular release. When you've had over 7 releases to finally get some basic elements right, you better be sure you do it. If there was another NFL option, Madden would NOT be the game it is today. It would be more like what the Show is or what NBA 2k is.

[ODogg]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

But isnt this the point of having penalties?

It happens all the time in the NFL, coaches get irate over almost every penalty called. Thats what makes watching it on Sundays and the sport itself so spectacular!

But I agree with what you are saying!

Yeah it's the point, I mean they make real coaches irate but it's part of the game. So without them, the game isn't as realistic. If people weren't so immature and ADD nowadays they'd realize that although penalties can really hurt them sometimes, on occasion they will also work in their favor.

But then who can understand the stupidity of the American public, lol, that goes way beyond the whole penalties in Madden debate.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

Yeah it's the point, I mean they make real coaches irate but it's part of the game. So without them, the game isn't as realistic. If people weren't so immature and ADD nowadays they'd realize that although penalties can really hurt them sometimes, on occasion they will also work in their favor.

But then who can understand the stupidity of the American public, lol, that goes way beyond the whole penalties in Madden debate.

I think it's fine for people to play without penalties. However, why isn't it an option? Not only should I be able to turn them off, but I should be able to adjust the frequency of it happening. I should be able to set up my game so that a penalty is called nearly every other play. I'll never forget when I was playing NFL 2k5 years ago and my buddy I was playing against online called a screen play. He used the falcons so he had Vick, so he scrambled a bit because my line got in there (obviously on the screen). This delayed the development of the play. He caught the pass with Dunn and ran for about 30 yards. However, flags got thrown (and yes, they were actually thrown by the ref on the field in real time). The penalty? Ineligible man downfield. This penalty does not even exist in Madden. I remember how we paused the game and talked for about 30 minutes about how awesome it was that the penalty was called. His lineman had gotten downfield because he waited too long to throw the ball. In the same game, I completed a pass for a 20 yard gain only to see flags again. My receiver (Amani Toomer), had been bumped and he ran out of bounds, but came back in to catch the ball. The penalty? Illegal touching. Once again this was met with awe as far as having this level of detail and realism in the game. This penalty also does not even exist in Madden. There are a lot more instances I can bring up that these guys should be ashamed of, but I don't feel like typing them all out again.

Just these two facts alone is enough to warrant criticism of the "only officially licensed game of the NFL". This is an insult to the fan base and is an absolute embarrassment to the Tiburon team. EMBARRASSING. Some can say I'm being harsh, or an EA *****. I'm none of those. I'm holding them accountable. I used to be a loyal fan of Madden, from 1988 (Apple iie version) to 1999. It's obvious that their ability to produce something that warrants the 60 dollar price tag (not including the other charges if you do any of the micro transactions) is non existent.

I rest my case...

[Smoke6]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

@Smoke, there are times when I can't think about Madden and this whole exclusive NFL license contract without getting frustrated but that's when I know it's time take a mental break. I am not suggesting people shouldn't feel the way they feel about whatever but they can control how they react.

If EA decides to release sights and sounds ahead of game play, that is what it is and aside from posting about how we would like to see that changed next year, I don't see how deep that topic could be. It's seems far better to discuss the actual sights and sounds but again, people can and do discuss whatever they like. lol

My main goal in regards to entertainment is to enjoy myself for as long as I can and that extends to posting on OS. So if it gets to the point where posting on OS, playing Madden or both are no longer entertaining, I take a break and try again later.

Cool, for once I would like them to not take the Lebron James "decision" route with announcing news on the game and just come out and say it is all. But they have had 7 whole years to work on 1 product. There are trilogies out there that endured that long of a dev cycle and the devs built upon that foundation. EA adds little and subtracts a lot.

To the guys reading and thinking most of us will never be pleased, couldnt be further from the truth. I am comfortable with a great set of gameplay tools and guidelines to keep the integrity of the game intact more than it has ever been.

If we did a direct feature set comparison of past football title to what we have now, would anyone be shocked?

[raguel]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

I don't like penalties either. I don't necessarily want more penalties, I just want penalties thrown on obvious P.I. plays. If that means less contact (better pathing?) between defender and receiver I can live with that.

Anyone remember the good old days when the receiver could initiate contact and a flag would be thrown on the defense? LOL I had a friend who'd do that to me at least once a game.

[Smoke6]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

I don't like penalties either. I don't necessarily want more penalties, I just want penalties thrown on obvious P.I. plays. If that means less contact (better pathing?) between defender and receiver I can live with that.

Anyone remember the good old days when the receiver could initiate contact and a flag would be thrown on the defense? LOL I had a friend who'd do that to me at least once a game.

Hold up, let me explain bro, I think their might be some misunderstanding here...

If you love watching the game of football on Sundays, then thats all I want to try and experience on the field in madden. Im not asking for penalties every down, im just wanting most if not all included into the package I pay $60 a year for.

But let it be known that all this should be optional to your liking bro, i just want them to add it with my discretion on if and when I decide to use them or not is all.

[NASCARS]

The guy that is the Creative Lead for Madden this year put out a Virtual Playbook diary or whatever last year that said helmet stickers were an important addition to the presentation of the game. Sounds super creative. All I've heard them talk about is new camera angles, motion blur and lighting. Holy crap. Someone needs to shake the hell out of the Marketing guy over there at EA Sports.

You want to really create a buzz in the Madden community? How about you announce that you've revamped the franchise mode? You know, the one that's been UNTOUCHED (minus the cutting of players through preseason that was HORRIBLY done last year) for the past several years. Coaches don't mean enough. Buying upgrades for your stadium literally does nothing. Hell, the logos for moving a team ARE THE SAME THEY WERE IN THE YEAR 2000.

I love gameplay as much as the next guy, but I understand there is only so much you can do with a football game to make it realistic. There are just so many moving parts and contact between the player models (which, by the way, everyone in the game looks like they're on steroids). But there is literally no excuse for the franchise mode, which is essentially a collection of menus, to be as bare bones and horrible as it is.

NBA 2K has team chemistry ratings, coach potential, a completely rendered version of commissioner David Stern and deputy commissioner Adam Silver at the NBA draft, a trade system that allows you to see what a team would want for a certain player (Trade Finder tool), NBA.com homepage with all of the latest scores and stories about contracts, drama on the teams, etc, and a white house visit for the team that wins the championship.

So, gimme a break.

[NASCARS]

They've taken away more from the Madden franchise mode in the recent years than they've added to it (Radio Show, Mini-Camp training, Pre-Season position battles, etc.). What's so crazy is that the majority of the stuff they've taken away was from LAST GEN CONSOLES. I know it's got to be more difficult to create a dynamic lighting system than it is for Jim Nantz to record a few lines of dialogue saying the names and team names of places a franchise could move to (or hell, just let them keep the same name EX: Los Angeles Rams).

There are so many problems with gameplay it's hard to list in 1 website, let alone 1 forum or 1 forum post. But the problems with the user interface in the different modes is totally unacceptable. They don't even have to "fix" the game to make it SO much better. Just give us some details that make us more immersed in the total experience. The majority of people that play this game play Franchise mode, either alone or with friends. Make that an enjoyable process rather than a flat one.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

I think it's fine for people to play without penalties. However, why isn't it an option? Not only should I be able to turn them off, but I should be able to adjust the frequency of it happening. I should be able to set up my game so that a penalty is called nearly every other play. I'll never forget when I was playing NFL 2k5 years ago and my buddy I was playing against online called a screen play. He used the falcons so he had Vick, so he scrambled a bit because my line got in there (obviously on the screen). This delayed the development of the play. He caught the pass with Dunn and ran for about 30 yards. However, flags got thrown (and yes, they were actually thrown by the ref on the field in real time). The penalty? Ineligible man downfield. This penalty does not even exist in Madden. I remember how we paused the game and talked for about 30 minutes about how awesome it was that the penalty was called. His lineman had gotten downfield because he waited too long to throw the ball. In the same game, I completed a pass for a 20 yard gain only to see flags again. My receiver (Amani Toomer), had been bumped and he ran out of bounds, but came back in to catch the ball. The penalty? Illegal touching. Once again this was met with awe as far as having this level of detail and realism in the game. This penalty also does not even exist in Madden. There are a lot more instances I can bring up that these guys should be ashamed of, but I don't feel like typing them all out again.

Just these two facts alone is enough to warrant criticism of the "only officially licensed game of the NFL". This is an insult to the fan base and is an absolute embarrassment to the Tiburon team. EMBARRASSING. Some can say I'm being harsh, or an EA *****. I'm none of those. I'm holding them accountable. I used to be a loyal fan of Madden, from 1988 (Apple iie version) to 1999. It's obvious that their ability to produce something that warrants the 60 dollar price tag (not including the other charges if you do any of the micro transactions) is non existent.

I rest my case...

Yeah, this right here is the quickest way to end a "Madden is realistic enough" discussion, lol. Penalties or the lack thereof in Madden in 2012 is a shot right to the heart of that.

That said, they did add illegal touch in M13, so now receivers can't just step out bounds and back in to make a catch. Also, they are reported to be making a strong effort for getting defensive PI to trigger correctly.

Overall, penalties are one of those areas that really highlight the worst thing about no other NFL game to choose, target marketing. The fact that each consumer base for various games has a different set of priorities that are usually reflected in the product, makes having a choice so much better.

Here we are in the 8th edition of next-gen Madden and illegal touch is just being added but I am sure if more current NFL games were in the market, some other company would have considered applicable real NFL penalties a essential, due to it's consumer base.

Oh well.