Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

[sgibs7]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

See this goes back to the point I was making about the tourney scene, as I have experienced. While there is no textbook way to play Madden "right", there are many clear guidelines for playing NFL football right and not impeding or attempting to intentionally interfere with a receiver's route is an example.

You seem to be implying that tournament rule enforcement should be reactionary, not preventive, by only prohibiting "tactics" that can be directly contributed to losing. What many others and myself believe is that tournament rules should also be preventive and prohibit "tactics" that are not based on NFL realism taking into consideration the shortcomings/limitations of the Madden program.

People get too caught up in the winning and losing aspect of sports and games, imo when the true goal is overcoming the challenges. The tourney scene seems to value the challenge of beating their opponent but finds every opportunity to circumvent the personal challenge of self discipline and competing within realistic limitations.

Despite its' issues the intent of Madden is to simulate NFL football so whenever someone plays Madden with any intent besides to reasonably simulate NFL football, that's an attempt to exploit the program, using it for something that it was not intended, imo.

the main difference (what i believe) is that I dont see what you mention effecting the outcome of the game and or play at all to give someone a advantage.

so it just doesnt bother me. again just how i look at it - doesnt mean im right and it doesnt mean that you are right.

really about coming together to get the game to be the best game possible and with your feedback, my feedback, and everyones feedback put togehter - thats how we can get the game to where we all want it

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

I know I'm not alone in that camp. The NCAA Game Changers and CD folks are letting EA know about the lack of penalties, I would hope the same would hold true for the people that are representing us for Madden.

It absolutely does hold true. It's certainly something I mentioned when I spoke to the developers back in February. Now how does that feedback impact M13? I'll find out soon.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

the main difference (what i believe) is that I dont see what you mention effecting the outcome of the game and or play at all to give someone a advantage.

so it just doesnt bother me. again just how i look at it - doesnt mean im right and it doesnt mean that you are right.

really about coming together to get the game to be the best game possible and with your feedback, my feedback, and everyones feedback put togehter - thats how we can get the game to where we all want it

How can it be a where "we" want it when you and others that agree, think having or enforcing basic NFL penalties is not important/essential?

Player movement is a joke in M12 to where I can User a safety run up to the LOS and sprint back deep down field after the ball is snapped or User almost any defender and zig zag my way around contact. The no huddle is not representative of the NFL with fatigue seeming to only effect the defense. Fatigue is not representative of the NFL with User players sprinting all over the field without becoming "winded" in that play or even having proper progressive adverse effects in the game. A player that should presumably already be "hustling"/running at full speed can be switched to User control and receive a speed burst using sprint.

I could go on and on about the "tactics" used in Madden that are not representative of realistic NFL football, that individually do not tantamount to a guaranteed lose. However, like I keep saying, winning and losing has nothing to do with whether a "tactic" is NFL realistic or not and a Madden exploit. Everyone of those things I listed are NFL unrealistic exploits yet you keep stating this stuff is no big deal because gamers can still win in spite of them, likely by using them too or other exploits.

Look, I have no grudge against anybody playing the game the way they see fit but it is obvious that everyone doesn't value the same parameters and that's cool too.

That said there is a difference in gamers that are content to play Madden as is and those that want to play NFL football as best they can using Madden. I want to see there be a tourney/competitive scene with regulation and enforcement that cater to the latter because right now that scene seems dominated by the former.

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

the main difference (what i believe) is that I dont see what you mention effecting the outcome of the game and or play at all to give someone a advantage.

so it just doesnt bother me. again just how i look at it - doesnt mean im right and it doesnt mean that you are right.

Therein lies the issue my friend. Pass interference (or the lack thereof) doesn't impact Madden the way that it impacts a real NFL game.

I think that speaks to a difference in perspectives which you and I acknowledge. But many of the people you'll find on OS want P.I. to impact the outcome of the game.

[sgibs7]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

How can it be a where "we" want it when you and others that agree, think having or enforcing basic NFL penalties is not important/essential?
bc i want what you want - its just that with the cards that are dealt to me with the current madden 12 game I played with whats in front of me and just play to win games. im agreeing with you about what your saying and that those things need to be fixed. however personally i just dont have a problem with how its working right now - does it need to be fixed, yes im on board this ship.

Player movement is a joke in M12 to where I can User a safety run up to the LOS and sprint back deep down field after the ball is snapped or User almost any defender and zig zag my way around contact. The no huddle is not representative of the NFL with fatigue seeming to only effect the defense. Fatigue is not representative of the NFL with User players sprinting all over the field without becoming "winded" in that play or even having proper progressive adverse effects in the game. A player that should presumably already be "hustling"/running at full speed can be switched to User control and receive a speed burst using sprint.
if you play at the LOS in madden 12 you have no chance at sprinting back and playing a deep ball - literally zero chance. back in the day this was a problem - especially on current gen you could user cover sooooo much. now you are really forced to pick a area of the field you want to control and you can (if i play in the box i will take away anything within a few yards of me but outside that I wont have a chance to make plays on the ball. I think your right about fatigue - madden 09 had fatigue on target - or was it 10? not 100% sure but the fatigue was right there where if you want no huddle to much you had guys coming out. im not really sure thoough what the stats are in the NFL in terms of teams subbing on no huddles with guys tiring, i dont want to speculate on what i feel. I do know the patriots no huddle soooooo much and in that no huddle they keep the same packages through out the drives and they maintain that all game.

I could go on and on about the "tactics" used in Madden that are not representative of realistic NFL football, that individually do not tantamount to a guaranteed lose. However, like I keep saying, winning and losing has nothing to do with whether a "tactic" is NFL realistic or not and a Madden exploit. Everyone of those things I listed are NFL unrealistic exploits yet you keep stating this stuff is no big deal because gamers can still win in spite of them, likely by using them too or other exploits.
i just dont think that running no huddle is a exploit. force an incompletion and take me out of it. its not really fair to say its not realistic when teams do no huddle, espicially the patriots. i dont see it being a advantage to no huddle or not to no huddle. i just dont view some of the things you are saying as exploits that make someone win or lose.

Look, I have no grudge against anybody playing the game the way they see fit but it is obvious that everyone doesn't value the same parameters and that's cool too.
100% with you on this. we all play it differently, but at the end of hte day we want a sound football game.

That said there is a difference in gamers that are content to play Madden as is and those that want to play NFL football as best they can using Madden. I want to see there be a tourney/competitive scene with regulation and enforcement that cater to the latter because right now that scene seems dominated by the former.

overall i look at things in the game and i ask myself what gives someone a unfair advantage (blocking fg's) bc no adjustments can be made by the offense when kicking to stop the blocked fg.

i want what you want at the end of the day.

[sgibs7]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

Therein lies the issue my friend. Pass interference (or the lack thereof) doesn't impact Madden the way that it impacts a real NFL game.

I think that speaks to a difference in perspectives which you and I acknowledge. But many of the people you'll find on OS want P.I. to impact the outcome of the game.

i respect that - when im playing the game i havent seen many instances where I will say - wow thats costing me games or thats costing me enjoyment with the game.

if i could hitstick receivers downfield and no PI was called - thats more so something thats game breaking that needs to be fixed.

but i totally understand where everyone is coming from with the PI that they are referring to thats why that feedback gets sent over to make that adjustment

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

Fatigue is not representative of the NFL with User players sprinting all over the field without becoming "winded" in that play or even having proper progressive adverse effects in the game.

As a sidebar, there is a progressive fatigue model in M12. It's been there since M10 I believe.

Does it work in M12? It's hard for me to say b/c I don't call plays by formation, so I normally don't see the fatigue levels. But unless it's been bugged, it should work. That's why people at one time were having issues with their players disappearing. Fatigue was progressive so once a player couldn't reach his sub-in threshold, he was never seen again.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Dualshockers Madden 13 Interview with Clint Oldenberg and Mike Young

they definitely SHOULD be making a new engine, despite people not liking them 'starting over' but the difference in the next-upcoming generation should be they need to do a much better job right up front on the first shot at it. I mean we took a HUGE hit going from last-gen to this gen and it's taken us years to get back to a playable game, we can't afford to have that happen again.

I just wanted to say I don't entirely disagree with you. But taking that approach, they'd be running the risk of running into the same problems they did this generation. And then what, another slow start on a new console generation or generation lost outright because they're locked in? I just feel they should be trying to go that route now, rather than later (well, should've been trying to go that route a few years ago). If the feeling is they need newer/more powerful hardware to implement their vision, I'd disagree given what's been accomplished by other games this generation across every genre. We've already seen real time physics in a sports game. Or a game deliver great OL/DL/ player interaction. We've seen presentation, features, animations, etc. taken beyond anything done last generation.

It's not an apples to apples comparison, but this sort of thing was handled properly last gen with the move from Triple Play to MVP Baseball. It wasn't like they required all new powerful hardware, just a talented team with bringing in a fresh approach with new ideas. I thought they'd be willing to either take a new approach or at least a more comprehensive approach to addressing the game's issues with the dev team doubling in size yet seems like we'll be getting the same themed-upgrades/piecemeal approach of years past

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

@sgibs, I have no problem agreeing to disagree but I don't understand how you can continue to say "i want what you want", while at the same time saying "personally i just dont have a problem with how its working right now".

Injust about every post you keep referring back to wins and losses as your standard for what should and should not be allowed. Likewise, I keep stating that is not my standard but whether something is reasonably NFL realistic is.

We both agree that the other should be able to play the game the way they feel is right, which is good. However, the current issue on the tourney scene and with Madden in general is your POV about a standard based on wins and losses instead of reasonable NFL realism, seems to be the prevailing rule of thumb.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

As a sidebar, there is a progressive fatigue model in M12. It's been there since M10 I believe.

Does it work in M12? It's hard for me to say b/c I don't call plays by formation, so I normally don't see the fatigue levels. But unless it's been bugged, it should work. That's why people at one time were having issues with their players disappearing. Fatigue was progressive so once a player couldn't reach his sub-in threshold, he was never seen again.

Maybe you or anybody can answer this question I asked in another thread. I am trying to understand how catch animations work in Madden.

Excuse me if I come across the wrong way but what does "triggering good ones" mean? I heard this on Game Changers Radio Tuesday and it's starting to concern me in terms of how EA/Tiburon might use animations.

I am not a programmer but it is starting to sound like to me "triggering animations" in relation to catches equates to an automatic catch. I have no issue with every receiver in the game being capable of ATTEMPTING say a one handed catch but it would be ridiculous for every player to be capable of triggering a successful one handed catch repeatedly with the just the right timing, control mechanic or some such nonsense.

Is that pretty much what goes on in Madden to your knowledge? Where do you think ratings come into play with all this?

[sgibs7]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

@sgibs, I have no problem agreeing to disagree but I don't understand how you can continue to say "i want what you want", while at the same time saying "personally i just dont have a problem with how its working right now".

Injust about every post you keep referring back to wins and losses as your standard for what should and should not be allowed. Likewise, I keep stating that is not my standard but whether something is reasonably NFL realistic is.

We both agree that the other should be able to play the game the way they feel is right, which is good. However, the current issue on the tourney scene and with Madden in general is your POV about a standard based on wins and losses instead of reasonable NFL realism, seems to be the prevailing rule of thumb.

its fair to say that it was unrealistic to have a TE at HB before the 2011 season right?

I look at the NFL and "realism" to be as current as the last play i saw. you dont know how things will play out until then.

its not really fair to say that the problem is my point of view. we just view things differently.

isnt the nfl standard based on wins and losses? last year it would have been unrealisitic for a TE to play HB - but now that the pats have done it should now be allowed? that why i think the most current play you see is what sim is.

sim is always evolving. 15 years ago having 8 WRs on your depth chart wouldnt have been a sim way to play madden bc the nfl was all about pro sets. teams had 3-4 fullbacks on the roster that all saw play time. but now its a passing league so things have changed.

[roadman]

Re: Dualshockers Madden 13 Interview with Clint Oldenberg and Mike Young

I just wanted to say I don't entirely disagree with you. But taking that approach, they'd be running the risk of running into the same problems they did this generation. And then what, another slow start on a new console generation or generation lost outright because they're locked in? I just feel they should be trying to go that route now, rather than later (well, should've been trying to go that route a few years ago). If the feeling is they need newer/more powerful hardware to implement their vision, I'd disagree given what's been accomplished by other games this generation across every genre. We've already seen real time physics in a sports game. Or a game deliver great OL/DL/ player interaction. We've seen presentation, features, animations, etc. taken beyond anything done last generation.

It's not an apples to apples comparison, but this sort of thing was handled properly last gen with the move from Triple Play to MVP Baseball. It wasn't like they required all new powerful hardware, just a talented team with bringing in a fresh approach with new ideas. I thought they'd be willing to either take a new approach or at least a more comprehensive approach to addressing the game's issues with the dev team doubling in size yet seems like we'll be getting the same themed-upgrades/piecemeal approach of years past

I agree with a lot of this, disagree with some.

Triple Play took a year off, too. That helps a heckuva lot.

I'm not so sure it's the piecemeal approach, either. A lot of the things Madden is updating is specific things the sim crowd has wanted.

I've said earlier, and I'll say it again. Madden is darned if they do and darned if they don't. If they didn't address what they are putting in this year, you would hear about it. They put the things in that most people here wanted, and they still hear about what is left out.

I don't blame people for feeling either way, just a tough spot to be in.

[BlackBetty15]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

i spent the last hour trying to do it every play of a game - and when there is a user receiver involved i havent been able to successfully do it once.

i see it being a big problem is there is no user involvement with the receiver. outside that i dont see it as a issue at all.

i think user catching is a big appeal of the game for me. it makes it fun - doesnt mean im right or that your wrong. yes user catching is effective and yes you clearly get rewarded by user catching.

biggest thing is trying to all mix together and not bash opposing views. prob best way to handle this is to play in a league where you make rules that state you cant click on (like you said). because once you get into the wild guys wil be clicking on and making plays.

user skill is what separates a loft of peoples game.

Here is a season recap of 2011 in regards to penalties called with yards lost...now in ncaa I can crank the only four sliders that work and TRY to match it...but seeing the same holding, clipping, facemask, and false starts would get annoying...there is no variety. I want O/D PI, intentional grounding, late hit out of bounds, defensive holding, illegal wr crack blocks, horsecollar, and maybe some helmet to helmet or some other personel foul penalties. I mean Dang...heaven forbide I actually expierience the drama and suspense of my players having a ****** moment and blowing my momentum or vice versa...the agony or joy of catching that lucky break to keep the drive alive because of an untimely penalty...its what sets up those sweet moments...I have been clawing out my eyes for five years now reading madden and ncaa threads on what people think need to be added to the game and yet the same bare bones foundation of football is missing. Sure, a wet bar in a two story house looks nice, but with no proper foundation the house as a whole sucks and unfortunately that's what we have been getting for five years...some visual candy like animals looking nice and what not but foundation of football has been terrible.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/totalPenaltyYards

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

Here is a season recap of 2011 in regards to penalties called with yards lost...now in ncaa I can crank the only four sliders that work and TRY to match it...but seeing the same holding, clipping, facemask, and false starts would get annoying...there is no variety. I want O/D PI, intentional grounding, late hit out of bounds, defensive holding, illegal wr crack blocks, horsecollar, and maybe some helmet to helmet or some other personel foul penalties. I mean Dang...heaven forbide I actually expierience the drama and suspense of my players having a ****** moment and blowing my momentum or vice versa...the ago.y or joy of catching that lucky break to keep the drive alive because of an untimely penalty...its what sets up those sweet moments...I have been clawing out my eyes for five years now reading madden and ncaa threads on what people think need to be added to the game and yet the same bare bones foundation of football is missing. Sure, a wet bar in a two story house looks nice, but with no proper foundation the house as a whole sucks and unfortunately that's what we have been getting for five years...some visual candy like animals looking nice and what not but foundation of football has been terrible.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...alPenaltyYards

Agree with you on the lack of penalties, that is a given, but I doubt you will get the NFL to agree with horsecollar and personal foul penalties.

I just don't see a time when the NFL would agree to that, at this time, cracking down on concussions, bountygate, etc.....

[sgibs7]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

Here is a season recap of 2011 in regards to penalties called with yards lost...now in ncaa I can crank the only four sliders that work and TRY to match it...but seeing the same holding, clipping, facemask, and false starts would get annoying...there is no variety. I want O/D PI, intentional grounding, late hit out of bounds, defensive holding, illegal wr crack blocks, horsecollar, and maybe some helmet to helmet or some other personel foul penalties. I mean Dang...heaven forbide I actually expierience the drama and suspense of my players having a ****** moment and blowing my momentum or vice versa...the agony or joy of catching that lucky break to keep the drive alive because of an untimely penalty...its what sets up those sweet moments...I have been clawing out my eyes for five years now reading madden and ncaa threads on what people think need to be added to the game and yet the same bare bones foundation of football is missing. Sure, a wet bar in a two story house looks nice, but with no proper foundation the house as a whole sucks and unfortunately that's what we have been getting for five years...some visual candy like animals looking nice and what not but foundation of football has been terrible.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...alPenaltyYards

thanks for those stats man - im diving into them now.

why do you want more penalties is it for the sake of realism or is it bc you feel as though you are getting a unfair advatange when playing the game nad not getting the calls

or is it both?