Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

[WFColonel56]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

@WFColonel56, the fact you seem to keep wanting to ignore is that Madden is not trying to simulate football in general, it's trying to simulate NFL football.

I wanted to address this point directly

If madden wants to simulate only the NFL than madden will always be three years behind in EVERYTHING.
Gibs posted earlier about TE @ HB...That was considered crazy just a calender year ago in the NFL. But guess what this next season you will see at least two more teams do it. Book it

And NE's 2 TE offense that they really got into 2 yrs ago was a complete throwback to the NFL. And where is the NFL shifting towards this upcoming season 2 TE offenses.

And lets not forget that NOTHING is invented in the nfl...EVERYTHING originated in high school and college and then made its way to the nfl. Which further leads to the point that by NOT trying to replicate football and only replicate the NFL you will always be three years behind.

But if madden doenst implement 2 TE packages like NE has than I can do it myself....I could have done it this yr, the yr before, and the yr before.

Im not saying madden needs to implement the option just because ________ gets drafted. Something like that needs to be seen in the nfl first. But to restrict a playstyle just because it isnt prevalent in the NFL is ridiculousness

Sim players were against (not sure if sim guys are still against) no huddling every play on a drive. Well ATL is at its best when they no huddle. In fact they would no huddle entire drives. Now is it acceptable to be done in sim games?

if not than the sim rules really arent sim

and if so what happens when EVENTUALLY there is a NFL coach that goes for it on 4th down at a crazy rate? What happens to your rules?

You cant govern a playstyle

[WFColonel56]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

If someone played a NASCAR simulation game with the intent of just crashing into as many people as possible, not to actually compete in racing cars, is that playing the game the wrong way?

Of course it is but they are free to do it if that's what they enjoy. Same thing applies in Madden, just because people can play however they want does not mean however they are playing the game is right, ie as intended. I can respect that choice too without pretending it's something it's not.

As far as the offensive/defensive gameplans, I really don't put that much thought into Madden. I play with the Redskins and try to utilize everything in both playbooks to keep it fresh. I can't imagine playing Madden strictly to win because so many things are lacking in NFL risk/reward, imo.

For example, I spent about 10 minutes in Practice mode one day trying to see if a particular goal line fade could be stopped, I couldn't believe how easy it was to successfully utilize that play. That was with just about 10 minutes of practice, I can't imagine actually committing to try finding and perfecting every unsavory effective "tactic" the game has.

I have absolutely no interest in something like that and refuse to exploit the program yet I still have won countless online games but actually enjoyed far less.

Which comes down to the developers again

[sgibs7]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

If someone played a NASCAR simulation game with the intent of just crashing into as many people as possible, not to actually compete in racing cars, is that playing the game the wrong way?
that would be similar to me punting on every play and or being offside on every play intentionally.

Of course it is but they are free to do it if that's what they enjoy. Same thing applies in Madden, just because people can play however they want does not mean however they are playing the game is right, ie as intended. I can respect that choice too without pretending it's something it's not.

As far as the offensive/defensive gameplans, I really don't put that much thought into Madden. I play with the Redskins and try to utilize everything in both playbooks to keep it fresh. I can't imagine playing Madden strictly to win because so many things are lacking in NFL risk/reward, imo.
thats not NFL like at all. Teams scheme and they prepare and get ready for there opponent for hours on end. The very fact that you are saying you go into games to try and replicate what you see on Sundays without any preparation can't be considered NFL like at all.

For example, I spent about 10 minutes in Practice mode one day trying to see if a particular goal line fade could be stopped, I couldn't believe how easy it was to successfully utilize that play. That was with just about 10 minutes of practice, I can't imagine actually committing to try finding and perfecting every unsavory effective "tactic" the game has.
Play a cover 2 zone and drop your deep safeties into purple zones - you souldnt have a issue stopping it moving forward. i have actually spent time trying to find a stop to this unstoppable tactic/gimmic - you have not and thats just the fact of the matter. dont claim something is unstoppable when you spent 10 minutes running it on offense only.

I have absolutely no interest in something like that and refuse to exploit the program yet I still have won countless online games but actually enjoyed far less.

but you dont scheme and you dont prepare for games like teams do on Sunday.

A direct representation of games on Sunday that is what you want yet you arent playing the game in a manner thats intended. Teams do prepare and they gameplan.

This is my point with all the posts above. A bit harsh in what im saying, ya totally. but in your mind you are quintessential representation of what the NFL experience is and should be playing Madden. Yet you dont go the FULL distance. You play games online which to me means you dont play 15 min qtrs and you dont play with acc clock off. Again another instance of you not representing what the NFL is like.

Theres no way any of us can replicate to the point that is going to be exactly what you see on Sundays - we can come close and we are ALL going to be off in specific scenarios in regards to whats real and whats not real. but dont judge someone for how they play the game and explain that they are playing it wrong.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

over effective routes,blitzes, animation (ex: RC) are what the sim gamers main gripes are against tourney guys and who does that fall back on

THE DEVELOPERS

I keep saying it......Players can only do what the game allows them to do.

As far as going for it on 4th, or calling plays over and over again, etc...That is a gamers right to do so. They are their own coach

I am not the sim gamer spokesman but I know for me, I couldn't care less about people going for every 4th down, as long as their 4th down play is not some unrealistic "tactic" for success, which it likely is. No reasonable person would go for 4th down if they didn't feel they have a good chance to get the 1st down, unless the had no choice, like trying to comeback.

I am not some casual or noob to NFL football gaming that wants gamers forced to play according to some NFL script, I want gamers reasonably regulated by applicable NFL parameters.

If EA/Tiburon and competitions focused on trying to represent NFL parameters in Madden, all that other stuff would become more realistic as a consequence.

[sgibs7]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

How many offensive plays a game should I be calling to emulate a NFL game?

[sgibs7]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

but you dont scheme and you dont prepare for games like teams do on Sunday.

A direct representation of games on Sunday that is what you want yet you arent playing the game in a manner thats intended. Teams do prepare and they gameplan.

This is my point with all the posts above. A bit harsh in what im saying, ya totally. but in your mind you are quintessential representation of what the NFL experience is and should be playing Madden. Yet you dont go the FULL distance. You play games online which to me means you dont play 15 min qtrs and you dont play with acc clock off. Again another instance of you not representing what the NFL is like.

Theres no way any of us can replicate to the point that is going to be exactly what you see on Sundays - we can come close and we are ALL going to be off in specific scenarios in regards to whats real and whats not real. but dont judge someone for how they play the game and explain that they are playing it wrong.

I am not the sim gamer spokesman but I know for me, I couldn't care less about people going for every 4th down, as long as their 4th down play is not some unrealistic "tactic" for success, which it likely is. No reasonable person would go for 4th down if they didn't feel they have a good chance to get the 1st down, unless the had no choice, like trying to comeback.


I am not some casual or noob to NFL football gaming that wants gamers forced to play according to some NFL script, I want gamers reasonably regulated by applicable NFL parameters.

If EA/Tiburon and competitions focused on trying to represent NFL parameters in Madden, all that other stuff would become more realistic as a consequence.

That is a VERY bold flavors assumption. I know that Im not going for it EVER if i dont think I can convert and that has so much to do with the game situation and my opponent. Are there bad apples that will just randomley go for no matter the situation, i imagine so. If its 4th and 35 you should honestly be happy they are going for it - lock up and get the ball back.

[baller7345]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

One point of contention. Sgibs you've said that Madden is doing a fairly good job of replicating the game in your eyes. While I can agree that it does a decent job of replicating many of the passing concepts you'd see from an NFL game. In fact that is one aspect that I really think they did a great job with, I can run Double Dino Post , Double China, Smash, Curl Flats, Strong Flood, Drive, Shallow Cross, Mesh, Z-Spot, Slot Outs, Comebacks, Corner Strike, Flanker Dig, etc. and have success with them against the defenses they are designed to beat in real life and that is where I get my satisfaction out of Madden from (trying new real world concepts).

However saying it does a good job of expressing the game as a whole is disregarding several key factors. Madden has never managed to programmed well enough in terms of simulating the game to allow higher levels players to play 15 minute quarters and not turn it into some crazy scoring game. To put it simply offense rules while the defense is the reason most of the exploits are in place. The tourney guys play with 4 minutes quarters (never will understand that) and can still manage to put up over 40 points in some games. The reason is because the game is not programmed well enough to handle to sort of plays you are throwing at it so the offense is always at the advantage.

You have to work to free rushers up to generate any type of pass rush which while yes blitzes ran in the NFL generally are designed to free people up they aren't looking to do it every play. They are able to trust their 4 man rush to get pressure. Also a defense like Cover 2/Tampa 2 is a staple of several teams however sticking to a tampa 2 for an entire 60 minute game is going to result in you giving up close to 100-150 points unless you heavily modify it on the fly till you are occasionally not even running a tampa 2 anymore.

Give your typical Madden player 60 plays a game and they'll put up at least 40 points a game where as only the best offenses in the league can barely approach 35 points a game. Put a good offensive player in control of a team with the typical 60 plays a game and you can see how the poor representation of the defensive side of the ball coupled with the offense generally having the advantage makes playing the game however you want no more sim than the fact the Big FN Deal not scheming at all.

[KOACHK]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

madden is a competitive played game. Just like with EVERY OTHER competitive played game the players will do everything within the rules to win.

Same with Halo, COD, 2k basketball, street fighter/any fighting game...it doesnt matter. If it is competitively played than players will do everything within the rules to get a victory.

Definitley agree with you here WFC. -Why can't we all just "play Madden" like others "Play Halo", "Play Street Fighter", "Play COD", etc.. When I take a break from Madden, play COD and get shot-up to high heaven; I just chalk it up to me having to get better at that game instead of using cop-outs such as "THEY'RE NOT PLAYING SIIIIIM!".

I dont really think its fair to say thats how the game is meant to be played - the game is just meant to be played.

Exactly Gibs! What's funny is that there are as many definitions of "sim" as there are people that claim to play that way; at least the competitive Madden community has a standard, basic, set of rules that we adhere to as a community. The competitive community has rules that prohibit blatant game-breaking glitches; we don't fill up our rulebook with a list of subjective rules long enough to require a lawyer to sit next to us during games. We want to compete for a win as hard as we can within the rules of football itself; if there's a blatant glitch that needs to be addressed, we address it in our rules, but other than that, we play with the freedom that every coach on the real gridiron has too.

As far as going for it on 4th, or calling plays over and over again, etc...That is a gamers right to do so. They are their own coach

It's so funny that there are people out there that actually want to coach their team and your team too in a game of Madden.


*"SIM" Madden Players = Boxers
*Competitive Madden Players = MMA Fighters


I wish there was a way to filter out the following types of individuals when it comes to talking about Madden 11 here:
*People that don't play the game at all.
*People that blindly hate EA.
*2K fanboys (there is a 2K football forum here ... go THAAAAT way! #BigPun)
*People that play this game for a month or less every year.
*Overly sore losers.
I think if we could properly qualify everyone's statements based on what perspective their expressing themselves from, these conversations would be much more constructive.


For the record; I detest labels when it comes to how people play Madden. We should all enjoy this game for what it is with basic rules that allow us to compete as hard as we want to within the rules of football itself.

[sgibs7]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

One point of contention. Sgibs you've said that Madden is doing a fairly good job of replicating the game in your eyes. While I can agree that it does a decent job of replicating many of the passing concepts you'd see from an NFL game. In fact that is one aspect that I really think they did a great job with, I can run Double Dino Post , Double China, Smash, Curl Flats, Strong Flood, Drive, Shallow Cross, Mesh, Z-Spot, Slot Outs, Comebacks, Corner Strike, Flanker Dig, etc. and have success with them against the defenses they are designed to beat in real life and that is where I get my satisfaction out of Madden from (trying new real world concepts).

However saying it does a good job of expressing the game as a whole is disregarding several key factors. Madden has never managed to programmed well enough in terms of simulating the game to allow higher levels players to play 15 minute quarters and not turn it into some crazy scoring game. To put it simply offense rules while the defense is the reason most of the exploits are in place. The tourney guys play with 4 minutes quarters (never will understand that) and can still manage to put up over 40 points in some games. The reason is because the game is not programmed well enough to handle to sort of plays you are throwing at it so the offense is always at the advantage.

You have to work to free rushers up to generate any type of pass rush which while yes blitzes ran in the NFL generally are designed to free people up they aren't looking to do it every play. They are able to trust their 4 man rush to get pressure. Also a defense like Cover 2/Tampa 2 is a staple of several teams however sticking to a tampa 2 for an entire 60 minute game is going to result in you giving up close to 100-150 points unless you heavily modify it on the fly till you are occasionally not even running a tampa 2 anymore.

Give you typical Madden player 60 plays a game and they'll put up at least 40 points a game where as only the best offenses in the league can barely approach 35 points a game. Put a good offensive player in control of a team with the typical 60 plays a game and you can see how the poor representation of the defensive side of the ball coupled with the offense generally having the advantage makes playing the game however you want no more sim than the fact the Big FN Deal not scheming at all.

i think that if you put the game in front of people that have never played before and have them play 60 mins of football - you would have pretty life like representation. I have done this before with a few buddies and well lets just say it look like the 2000 Ravens vs 2000 Ravens. The game didnt even finish bc it was just taking to long.

I attribute that to the fact at how good we actually all are. I will very rarely get sacked in Madden bc the focal point of my offense is getting the ball out quickly. I havent actually sat with a stop watch in practice to see what the consistent pass rush time is. but anything around 4 seconds should be about right. I would imagine we would see this if we tested it out.

That fact that we all play it so much and perfect the game so well is why we notice a lot of the nuisances and issues with the game. That comes with anything though - be around something long enough and it will lose its shiny gloss it once had

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

Ok, this discussion is taking a turn for the ridiculous, then again maybe it always has been but I am just now realizing it. lol

I never said the play was unstoppable, I don't even know if it is. I said I spent about 10 minutes in Practice mode one day trying to see if a particular goal line fade could be stopped, I couldn't believe how easy it was to successfully utilize that play.

To this notion of me not gameplanning and preparing for Madden tactics, it's not necessary to stop most things because Madden is not that NFL deep. I am definitely not about to "lab" or do a youtube search to find an exploit to counter another exploit. lol

I think you guys think because I want to play the game as NFL realistic as possible, that must mean I have a problem winning when my opponent doesn't but that's not rue. Feel free to look up my online record on 360, not that I care but I win far more than I lose.

What I enjoy is discussing NFL gaming and Madden on OS since I can not find long term enjoyment in playing it. However, this discussion is going all over the place and things are started to get taking completely out of context, imo.

[KOACHK]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

How many offensive plays a game should I be calling to emulate a NFL game?

Good question ... or maybe Madden should just do away with the playcall screen and just have one big "random play picker" button instead? -Just be random for the sake of randomness! --Strategy? ... What's that? ...


I swear actual football coaches would laugh at some of the "sim for sim's sake" posts seen here. This is football, not synchronized swimming!

[sgibs7]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

Good question ... or maybe Madden should just do away with the playcall screen and just have one big "random play picker" button instead? -Just be random for the sake of randomness! --Strategy? ... What's that? ...


I swear actual football coaches would laugh at some of the "sim for sim's sake" posts seen here. This is football, not synchronized swimming!

saw a tweet by chris from Smart Football that read...

"Just cut up coaches film of 2006 Manning-Indy Colts. They literally had like 15 plays. Expect 40 mins of vid/breakdown on site soon"

"Video will be organized by pass/run play. They had games where Colts used like 4 pass plays and 2 runs entire game. It's crazy (but great)"

thought that was interesting to see. this is the kind of stuff im talking about when I think people take the NFL realism card to far. How many of us even knew this? I for sure didnt. Hell that sounds similar to the amount of plays I call all game. I have about 15 plays that I call on a very regular basis.

[sgibs7]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

"Yeah I only have two runs on here, Pin-and-pull OZ and inside zone. Pass concepts are levels, deep cross off PA, 3 verticals"

"They have a few route conversions built in (will diagram) but super simplistic. Obviously QB putting them in right play helps."

"Just further evidence that most NFL teams really overdo it though."

"If a college QB came out of the Colts system I just got done cutting up, would say played in "predetermined read" "simplistic" O."

"Yep. About 90% of success of Colts very basic stuff, 10% total WOW execution RT <s>@</s> andrewdstanley football is all about execution"

"Yes, but you agree that most teams overdo it with playbooks. Getting into right play and executing it, not have 1,000 looks"

"Also, watch my work next couple of months. With no-huddle in CFB/NFL, not a/b play-calling anymore, packaged/combo plays now"

"I'd say that play-design is more important than having a lot of plays. No geniuses in football; everything is old."

What are your thoughts on this everyone?

[WFColonel56]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

gibs hit the nail right on the head the first week the game is out a game of 2000 ravens vs 2000 ravens even with tourney guys.

After the dust settles and players get a handle on the game. How does this coverage work, which alignments benefit me, who are the best players for me to put on the field, how do I throw this route, etc is when the points go up....

and thats even more of a testament to the work put in by players... If one is slacking it could be a 70-17 game (5 min q's)

If both players put in the necessary work game scores can be all over the place...but the score will be close.

Could be 35-42 or 10-17

in the virgin gaming tournament a player named Zan won 13-10

=============
and idk where the 4 min quarters came from in the tourney community but this is just my guess that that is long enough to get a game where you have time to adjust to an opponent and play a fulfilling game yet short enough to not be there all day playing 1 game.

remember tourneys can have 5,6,7,8,10 rounds and the difference between 4 min Q's and 5 mins may seem stupid but it adds up.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

That is a VERY bold flavors assumption. I know that Im not going for it EVER if i dont think I can convert and that has so much to do with the game situation and my opponent. Are there bad apples that will just randomley go for no matter the situation, i imagine so. If its 4th and 35 you should honestly be happy they are going for it - lock up and get the ball back.

See this is what I am talking about with things getting out of context, please explain what this reply was to do with what I posted?

I was replying to WF's post "As far as going for it on 4th, or calling plays over and over again, etc...That is a gamers right to do so." and I stated I couldn't care less about people going for every 4th down, as long as their 4th down play is not some unrealistic "tactic" for success, which it likely is, referring to people that go for every 4th down likely utilizing an unrealistic tactic. If that doesn't apply to you, cool.