Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

[Colts18]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

youALREADYknow******** type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_2043132050", true); </SCRIPT> ,

Your name is pink. Which company do you work for?

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

do u guys think ppl focus to much on the name, sim or cheese. I agree nobody will be 100% but yet why does bs constantly gets rewarded?

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

Some issues are simple slider adjustments and will probably be patched. At that point, people will then move on to the next "advantage" they can exploit. The problem is that no sports game is currently sophisticated enough to provide an ultra-realistic game while simultaneously allowing a User to control any action at any time by any player on the court. You have to choose between realism and control and apparently some people refuse to accept this.

I agree with this to a point, at the same time when guys throw double teams in the dumbest of manners and leave shooters open, I don't care how realistic or unrealistic it is, It should be RARE to miss. Punish the bad play. I'm not saying every open shot, just shots where say a guy controls an off ball defender and leaves his man wide open. I get infuriated when i miss these looks with good shooters because then the bad play continues because despite giving up a phenominal look, the shot missed so to them it was a success. Stuff could be programmed in to punish bad play, instead of rewarding it.

[ricardo_ducadae]

I get catering to a wider audience. But why not include sliders that are very sim. 2K does a great job, but some areas are shockingly bad. The trade logic is horrible. The CPU pump fakes at least four times on nearly every play.

[westfl87]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

Y'all all have good points.. But uhh anybody want to run a game? HOF sim 7 or so gt: Gator yall kno.. I'm board as ish...

[Fly3]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

What's Sim more or less rests in the eye of the beholder. Everyone has their own vision of it. My main irritation is with reach-in spammers, non stop pump fakers and constant zone defenders. Zone DEFENSE can prove way too effective in 2k12(more than IRL) due to the undependable passing. People don't reach all the time IRL because they get called for fouls or take themselves completely out of position if they are unsuccessful-These things don't happen nearly enough in 2k12. As far as pump faking, I've never seen Ray Allen, Melo, Dirk, KD, etc pump fake 5 times at 3point line trying to bait the d into jumping IRL, but I see this all the time online.

I remember people saying zone D needed to be more effective in 2K10. Now that it works, people call it cheese.

Same thing for on-ball steals (2K11) and 3pt success (2K11). Both were said to be ineffective last year, but now are seen as "cheese" by many in the online community. Users have failed to adjust to the improvements and cry, "Cheese!" when their old tactics no longer reap the rewards they've grown accustomed to.

Take on-ball steals for example. Last year, these were non-existent in ranked games. This allowed users to walk blindly into heavy defense while scanning the court for options. This year, users must pay attention to the defender (as do NBA PGs), before strolling into an anticipative defender. If you don't want to get ripped, get your body between your man and the ball.

[Godblessyaanklez]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

I wrote this over a year ago on 2k sports about this same topic, but heres the short version.


You know, i'm thinking this discussion has been beat to death over the years...but here's my thought on "simulation basketball". If 2k or any other company develops the best simulation of real life basketball, football or whatever sport they release, and we enjoy playing them, why do so many people hate when we don't play according to how "simballers" play? for example....if i wanna make a guy that jacks 3's all day, dunks in the paint like no one's business, and plays ridiculous defense, why would anyone oppose to that? Including myself, so many people caught flack for abusing exploits, and using "cheesy" tactics to win games. The way i see it is, if i pay my money for my game the same way yall do, why shouldnt i do what i want, how i want, whenever i want to whoever i meet online? I mean for crying out loud i havent seen a game this generation that doesnt tell u ahead of time that gameplay changes online and that the developers of the game arent really accountable for what happens online...dont get me wrong, im not saying that we should be just all out cheesers, or just play the game for exploits, but the fact of the matter is, every game has exploits....In real life, basketball is a game of match ups... kinda like a big game of rock, paper scissors...speed kills power, accurate timing beats speed, height beats speed...etc so why not take advantage of what u can to win? i mean everyone respects a winner, right? As much as people are not willing to understand, i respect people who find out exploits...its the people who get exploited that complain...i feel if they had the opportunity, they would do the same...a side note...just because u can exploit, doesnt mean, u cant get exploited right back...and if you're smart, you'll learn how to defend exploiters, and make em pay...for every action, there's a reaction...anything i can do, you can do...no one is magically "better" than anyone else....some people just use their brains alot more than others....the real problem actually doesnt lie in people, it lies in development, and game testing....there should be more developers reaching out at people who play this game online on a year to year basis, and get some of us to find out the exploits in the game, and for them to take em out the game before release so everyone has the same shot at playing on an even playing field.

[secondcity t]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

6 pages and no one mentioned one of the biggest issues in online play: Offball offense. It was bad last year, but this year I've watched opponents call quick iso, dance around the perimeter with an offball player like it's my player online then pull a contested j with the cpu ballhandler. So for those that are so adamant about onball defense, keep in mind that most players online aren't even controlling the ballhandler. With a few slider adjustments, offball control can be extremely effective which takes the learning curve out because there's no need to learn how to iso amongst other things.

[NINJAK2]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

I remember people saying zone D needed to be more effective in 2K10. Now that it works, people call it cheese.

Same thing for on-ball steals (2K11) and 3pt success (2K11). Both were said to be ineffective last year, but now are seen as "cheese" by many in the online community. Users have failed to adjust to the improvements and cry, "Cheese!" when their old tactics no longer reap the rewards they've grown accustomed to.

Take on-ball steals for example. Last year, these were non-existent in ranked games. This allowed users to walk blindly into heavy defense while scanning the court for options. This year, users must pay attention to the defender (as do NBA PGs), before strolling into an anticipative defender. If you don't want to get ripped, get your body between your man and the ball.

Zone is only effective because of the undependable passing mechanics in 2k12. While penetrating the middle of the floor is one way to beat a zone, crisp/swift passing around the perimeter is another way and doing this with any consistency in 2k12 is very difficult imo. To top it off, players can move faster than a passed ball in 2k12. Most online users know this which is why some lean on zones so heavily in 2k12 when in the real NBA players can't always react instantaneously to passes, they have to anticipate when a pass is made inorder to steal it. A missed steal attempt in the NBA can sometimes result in a foul or most likely a player taking themselves out of position to recover defensively if they don't get the ball. Most NBA teams will eat up a zone in real life because of these facts which is why most zones are played in spurts only as a change of pace not for entire games IRL.

I do not pound the paint or walk in the paint blindly. The fact you are missing is that most people complaining about steal spammers do protect the ball and would just like to have a reach in foul called every once in awhile on these guys to keep them in check. Right now there is no punishment for constantly reaching either in fouls or loss of defensive position. IMO that is one thing that the cell-shaded legend challenge really nailed-punishing players for unsuccesful steal attempts , sometimes taking them out of the play.

Play how you want to play man.....

[shayellis]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

The title should be REAL Ball vs Cheese.

Real ball is the way the game should be played. Not "sim" where you must run a play every possesion (i know all sim players arent like this).

I think when people play "sim" they feel like they have to call plays every single possesion, and can only fast break on turnovers. That is not real basketball. To me you have to have variety in your game. You should post up, run plays, shoot jumpers, fastbreak when the defense is not back yet, iso if you have a mismatch, etc. But dont resort to abusing the game with lead passing and other fake stuff.

Now cheese is pretty obvious. The steal spamming, alleyoops, through defenders and turbo baseline every possesion is clearly cheese. Along with spin dunking, etc. Basically cheese is abusing the flaws in the game.

[PRAY 2 KOBE]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

I don't play online because of the crybabies and lag, but I did a couple of years ago and put up 22 points with Joe Johnson and some ****** said "all u used was joe johnson" lmao I put up what he averages

are we not supposed to get close to 30ppg with LeBron, Kobe, Wade, etc?

or am I supposed to put up 30ppg with Haslem, Steve Blake, any other scrub??

Someone answer this.

The star player on whatever team I play with will usually score the most points. That is how it is in real life. Deal with it.

[tetoleetd]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

i dont care if someone isnt sim, but it just pisses me off when the game rewards people for running around like a chicken with its head cut off and chucking up horrible contested jumpers and MAKING THEM. the idea of basketball is to get open shots. i cant stand it when people have no concept of this. but it is easy to beat them so im not really complaining. its just annoying.

[tetoleetd]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

i love "cheesing" with al horford. he is deadly from mid range and most people have no idea so they leave him open all game. it pisses people off lol.

[siouxredskins]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

I don't like cheese players but I don't like people dictating how others should play either. If you played against someone who cheeses a lot, just remember his username and don't play with him again. If a cheeser enjoys playing the game that way then let him be. He paid for the game, let him play the way he wants to.

thats fine if they are playing by themselves or with a friend who agrees to do the same thing. But when you play someone you dont know online and pull stupid junk, you are proving you only care about the almighty win and have no desire to play fair. The online ghetto is just full of dumb,selfish immature kids who spend 60 bucks to play a game that..even with all its flaws, still has a alot of fun stuff in it for a sports game. And thanks to modern science you can play another person thousands of miles away( this is a fantastic priviledge) and these childish idiots reduce it to 2 or 3 moves all game with a screw you attitude.And the sad truth is, this is the majority and not the rarity. Americans are stupid,selfish people and this is an example of it

[siouxredskins]

Re: Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

I don't play online because of the crybabies and lag, but I did a couple of years ago and put up 22 points with Joe Johnson and some ****** said "all u used was joe johnson" lmao I put up what he averages

are we not supposed to get close to 30ppg with LeBron, Kobe, Wade, etc?

or am I supposed to put up 30ppg with Haslem, Steve Blake, any other scrub??

Someone answer this.

The star player on whatever team I play with will usually score the most points. That is how it is in real life. Deal with it.

intellectually dishonest argument because the game clock in video games is shorter. 30 points is usually half of what you get in a full game and for a player to get 30, that means only 2 or 3 other guys got the other 30 points. Thats what children do. using a star player like a ball hog in every game you play is not sim at all. It means you figure he will miss less than anyone else and you are afraid to spread the ball around and just play.

the last 3 games I bothered to play online..6 to 8 of my players had points distributed between them because i moved the ball around while the guys I played only had 2 or 3 guys scoring most of the points due to constantly doing the same things over and over with no spontanaity..granted, who knows how old they are? but this is a very simple minded approach by shallow people