Madden NFL 13 Connected Careers Mode Preview

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Connected Careers Mode Preview

Connected Careers sounds great as an addition, but not as a replacement. They took some huge steps backwards along with their steps forwards. Stats based progression has always been the ultimate of anti-realism and user based progression is even worse. Also, taking away customization/editing everything in franchise mode is another step back.

I'm going to wait until some guru at football-freaks comes up with some kind of editor for franchise, so we can at least counter the arcade idea of user based progression and/or stats based progression before I even think about purchasing Madden 13.

If they would have added this, while also enhancing franchise mode to be more realistic, I would be very excited, because connected careers does sound very interesting. But not at the expense of losing making offline franchise more realistic.

So, really, kudos to the dev team for connected career and adding some physics and also SMH and facepalm at the same time.

[bichettehappens]

Connected Careers sounds great as an addition, but not as a replacement. They took some huge steps backwards along with their steps forwards. Stats based progression has always been the ultimate of anti-realism and user based progression is even worse. Also, taking away customization/editing everything in franchise mode is another step back.

I'm going to wait until some guru at football-freaks comes up with some kind of editor for franchise, so we can at least counter the arcade idea of user based progression and/or stats based progression before I even think about purchasing Madden 13.

Wait.... Wait wait wait. So pre-programmed, automatic progression is MORE realistic? Is that what you're saying?

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Connected Careers Mode Preview

Wait.... Wait wait wait. So pre-programmed, automatic progression is MORE realistic? Is that what you're saying?

A tad more realistic than "I want so and so to be good so I'll just gain XP points and make him good".

And a calculated progression based on a bunch of factors, which would include things like position coaches, players potential in each category, system, head coach, work ethic, off season schedule, team and individual practice schedule, etc, etc, etc. My god, Chad Johnson couldn't even learn a playbook to be effective in NE. But we can make him really good by fudging a bunch of bogus XP points?

H E double toothpics, Sierra Sports had at least some of this 15 years ago. But you want completely unrealistic, user and/or stats based progression instead of ENHANCING franchise mode and making it more realistic?

Hey, I have nothing against arcade progression, if it's OPTIONAL. Let those that want arcade have it. Add Connective Careers or whatever it's called. I'm not against it. But do it as an addition, not as a replacement.

We should have had some kind of simulated training camp/preseason practice schedule by now. We should have had positional coaches by now. And we should be using real life variables in a dynamic way for use in player progression. And everything in the game should be customizable. it should be as realistic as you want or as arcady as you want.

Why in the world would you want me to want something as unrealistic as user and/or stats based progression?

[mwjr]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Connected Careers Mode Preview

With regards to progression, if I don't spend or commit any XP to a player then he won't develop?

[moneal2001]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Connected Careers Mode Preview

nope mwjr unless you set progression to auto

[Errors Occurred]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Connected Careers Mode Preview

Can you do a fantasy draft?

No it's not in the game this year at all.

With regards to progression, if I don't spend or commit any XP to a player then he won't develop?

That's right unless you pick for the computer to do it for you...So if you have 27,000 skill points and don't use them they will just keep adding up.

[mwjr]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Connected Careers Mode Preview

nope mwjr unless you set progression to auto

That makes more sense. I couldn't figure out why people kept saying progression was no longer in there.

I suppose my next question is will there be enough points to help develop your whole team?

[moneal2001]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Connected Careers Mode Preview

each player will gain their own xp based on their indavidual goals

[bichettehappens]

A tad more realistic than "I want so and so to be good so I'll just gain XP points and make him good".

And a calculated progression based on a bunch of factors, which would include things like position coaches, players potential in each category, system, head coach, work ethic, off season schedule, team and individual practice schedule, etc, etc, etc. My god, Chad Johnson couldn't even learn a playbook to be effective in NE. But we can make him really good by fudging a bunch of bogus XP points?

H E double toothpics, Sierra Sports had at least some of this 15 years ago. But you want completely unrealistic, user and/or stats based progression instead of ENHANCING franchise mode and making it more realistic?

Hey, I have nothing against arcade progression, if it's OPTIONAL. Let those that want arcade have it. Add Connective Careers or whatever it's called. I'm not against it. But do it as an addition, not as a replacement.

We should have had some kind of simulated training camp/preseason practice schedule by now. We should have had positional coaches by now. And we should be using real life variables in a dynamic way for use in player progression. And everything in the game should be customizable. it should be as realistic as you want or as arcady as you want.

Why in the world would you want me to want something as unrealistic as user and/or stats based progression?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue then. To me, automatic progression of each player, as it was in M12 and prior, is entirely unrealistic. I don't think there's anything arcade about game & practice performance dictating a player's ratings considering that's exactly what dictates rating changes in the roster updates throughout the season and from year to year.

It is unrealistic for a player to jump from a 75 to an 81 despite hardly seeing the field simply because they have an A potential. With the old progression system, there was no such thing as a bust. JaMarcus Russell came into the game as an A potential, as he should have. By old Madden rules, he would progress to be a pro bowler no matter what. Now, if he doesn't perform up to his expectations, he doesn't progress to become the star the Raiders hoped.

I mean, there was a lengthy thread last year with people pointing out everything that was wrong with the old progression system. While this may not be an egalitarian solution, it's certainly an improvement. And in order to make Ochocinco progress, you would in turn be sacrificing XP (through more targets for 85) that other, younger players could be earning, considering that it's harder to improve an older veteran player than a young up-and-comer. But, that's up to the end user to decide who to focus on improving. I thought the people upset about the changes were feeling that way because they had less control, but the XP system gives them more control over progression than they've ever had...

[bfslcommissioner]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Connected Careers Mode Preview

Connected Careers sounds great as an addition, but not as a replacement. They took some huge steps backwards along with their steps forwards. Stats based progression has always been the ultimate of anti-realism and user based progression is even worse. Also, taking away customization/editing everything in franchise mode is another step back.

I'm going to wait until some guru at football-freaks comes up with some kind of editor for franchise, so we can at least counter the arcade idea of user based progression and/or stats based progression before I even think about purchasing Madden 13.

If they would have added this, while also enhancing franchise mode to be more realistic, I would be very excited, because connected careers does sound very interesting. But not at the expense of losing making offline franchise more realistic.

So, really, kudos to the dev team for connected career and adding some physics and also SMH and facepalm at the same time.

I don't understand how performance based/stat based progression is worse than random progression that has no rhyme or reason to it?

[BrettCM06]

So in Madden 12, they revolutionized us with being able to edit any player in offline franchises or whatever, now they turn around and take it right back out? If they dont have a patch or tuber that adds the edit ability and import draft classes then both ncaa 13 amd madden 13 are no buys :/ was really looking forward to new sound and presentation.

Exactly my point that everyone attacked me for making. They keep taking away more and more of our control over our own games and instead sell us tweaked versions of recycled features. On a side note, I'll be curious to see how badly NCAA 13's sales are affected by not having the option to import draft classes, as the game personally has no value to me personally now whatsoever.

[Outkizast]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Connected Careers Mode Preview

Exactly my point that everyone attacked me for making. They keep taking away more and more of our control over our own games and instead sell us tweaked versions of recycled features. On a side note, I'll be curious to see how badly NCAA 13's sales are affected by not having the option to import draft classes, as the game personally has no value to me personally now whatsoever.

I personally have NEVER skipped buying NCAA and Madden every year. But I'm not buying NCAA this year for 2 reasons: No infinity engine (doubt I could go back to NCAA after playing Madden) and no import draft classes.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Connected Careers Mode Preview

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue then. To me, automatic progression of each player, as it was in M12 and prior, is entirely unrealistic.

Where did I say "USE" the M12 progression system as is. Did you miss where I said "enhance it"? Did you miss some of the things I mentioned as variables to use in the progression calculation?

I don't think there's anything arcade about game & practice performance dictating a player's ratings considering that's exactly what dictates rating changes in the roster updates throughout the season and from year to year.

Really? You pick which players you want to go through which drills and earn XP points and then spend those XP points on whatever attribute you want that player to progress in? Or even if the XP points gained can only be used in attributes effected by the drill you select, that's still not like real life. People have limitations on what they can do. No one is limitless. Speed doesn't increase to a 4.1 40 just because players run drills. If that were the case, we would see world sprint offensive lineman.

It is unrealistic for a player to jump from a 75 to an 81 despite hardly seeing the field simply because they have an A potential.

Yes, players do it ALL THE TIME, during the off-season, and during the season. Players get better with PRACTICE and film study. They don't have to be in the game on Sunday to get better. You may be surprised by this, but ALL NFL players see the field during practice, even practice squad guys.

With the old progression system, there was no such thing as a bust.

There were plenty of high draft picks that weren't worth doo-doo in Madden 12. There were plenty of busts. They existed. I still would have enhanced the scouting/progression system.

JaMarcus Russell came into the game as an A potential, as he should have.

In the real NFL, J. Russ. didn't have A potential. His perceived potential was an A, but his actual WAS NOT. We could get into an entire discussion about perceived vs (hidden) actual potentials in Madden along with perceived vs actual (hidden) ratings. The more you get to know a player the closer the perceived would get to the actual. An J. Russ guy would come into Madden as a perceived A potential, like all high draft picks would, but would have an F (hidden) actual potential.

I mean, there was a lengthy thread last year with people pointing out everything that was wrong with the old progression system. While this may not be an egalitarian solution, it's certainly an improvement.

It's not an improvement, it's a step backwards. An improvement would be to enhance the existing progression system, adding the many things that we did talk about in the threads you mentioned, making progression much more realistic, not taking a step backwards.

And in order to make Ochocinco progress, you would in turn be sacrificing XP (through more targets for 85) that other, younger players could be earning, considering that it's harder to improve an older veteran player than a young up-and-comer. But, that's up to the end user to decide who to focus on improving.

And that's what's unrealistic. You are choosing who works hard and who doesn't. In real life, MD Jennings isn't being held back just because Donald Driver is WORKING HARD. This new system, as I understand it so far (and I could be missing some things) is just plain unrealistic. And to me that is just plain stupid.

I thought the people upset about the changes were feeling that way because they had less control, but the XP system gives them more control over progression than they've ever had...

You should not have more control over progression. That's not how it works in real life. The only control you should have over progression is who you hire as a coaching staff and how well/who you draft. Scouting should work the same way. Perceived potential vs hidden actual potential. The better your scouting staff the more accurate the scouting reports.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I want more realism, and I want complete customization at the same time. In fact, I want stat based progress and XP progression to exist but not be mandatory. I want to shut stat based and XP off and allow you to turn it on. They should have greatly enhanced the progression that was in Franchise, not scrap it and replace it with something that's even slightly more unrealistic.

Hope that clears up my stance for you.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Connected Careers Mode Preview

I don't understand how performance based/stat based progression is worse than random progression that has no rhyme or reason to it?

Random progression with no rhyme or reason doesn't even come close to a non stats based progressions system. Stats based progression is completely backwards to how real life works. You get better, then you perform better. You don't get better because you perform better. The cause and effect is completely backwards.

And progression, in real life is rather random. Rich Gannon excelled late in his career. I think Madden's progression should have some of what MLB2k has, where a player has a range of peak years. A player can then peak late in his career, or peak early and fizzle out early. Much more like real life than stats based progression.

[bichettehappens]

Yeah we're just going to have to agree to disagree, it is what it is.