EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

[RGiles36]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

Great thread LBz. I'm buying what you're selling.

Good work by Steve as well for highlighting this thread; hopefully that gets the attention of EA.

Maybe its just me but I like it but I don't -- the pocket never truly forms. The QB is on the outskirts of it.

They need to 'spread' the interactions out a bit so the QB is actually in the pocket -- mixt that in with DEs rushing up the field (which should only be on pass commit type plays) and that would be golden.

Spread the interactions to what degree? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point, but I don't want the interactions spread anymore than they already are. The "pocket" already forms too wide. Even when the ends/OLBs disengage, they're too far from the passer to have any impact on the play.

To that end, I don't get too caught up in the appearance of a pocket. If the ends rush up field on passing plays (or when you instruct them to), the pocket will take care of itself. Then it's a matter of adding mobility upfront so that DE/DTs can effectively collapse the pocket w/out always tossing the G/C to the side.

[LBzrule]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

I wish EA would come out and confirm whether or not on higher levels of the game this plays out more frequently. I watched Ravens vs Redskins 3 and I saw it again at 00:53
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a76bHVO75oU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So obviously it is there we just need to know how often it plays out and if if can be sped up. If they can speed up QB drops, Play Action animations then surely they can speed up the DE's coming out of their stance and engaging with Offensive Tackles.

[DocHolliday]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

How frustrating is it that something that we have literally complained about for about a decade does not get fixed?

This would also be an instant boost to maddens "sim" factor on this site.

It also doesn't seem like it is that hard to implement since APF did it, not amazingly but light years better than maddens O line play.

I just don't get why they continue to ignore something people have been complaining about for so long.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

Great thread LBz. I'm buying what you're selling.

Good work by Steve as well for highlighting this thread; hopefully that gets the attention of EA.



Spread the interactions to what degree? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point, but I don't want the interactions spread anymore than they already are. The "pocket" already forms too wide. Even when the ends/OLBs disengage, they're too far from the passer to have any impact on the play.

To that end, I don't get too caught up in the appearance of a pocket. If the ends rush up field on passing plays (or when you instruct them to), the pocket will take care of itself. Then it's a matter of adding mobility upfront so that DE/DTs can effectively collapse the pocket w/out always tossing the G/C to the side.

The pocket only forms wide when you spread your line out. If you do a regular pass rush it looks jammed -- maybe a DE gets pushed to the ground to make it look like they were coming off the edge. If the pocket starts to look like its forming right -- my opinion only -- but that must mean that offensive and defensive linemen are using proper blocking/rushing techniques. Only way to make it look right is to do it right, right?

Look at the AP2k8 video -- thats the 'spreading' out I'm referring to. In fact, in his video LB spreads the line to get a realistic looking rush. Thats offensive and defensive lines performing, or giving the idea, that they are executing proper fundamentals. The play in that video gives me the feeling that the ends are getting 'as deep as the QB' or that the linemen are riding their man out of the play ALLOWING the QB time to step up. If you compare that to a non adjusted Madden/NCAA pass rush then you'll see patty cake animations with the ends getting stood up. If the tackles would have pushed rode their assignments further outside, therefore spreading the interactions, a beautiful pocket would have formed -- one I'd be willing to step up in at least.

Hope that was clear -- its late in Germany and I just started drinking.

[Goffs]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

Quality post! If the animation is already there then it should be an easy fix!

[SteelerSpartan]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

Any updates on whether this has gotten any looks from the devs?????

[ch46647]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

Any updates on whether this has gotten any looks from the devs?????

THis would be a great thread for a developer to pop in and let us know if it is possible. I know the developers dont post much anymore, but I would like to hear a litte input from them occasionally.

[GiantBlue76]

There is no chance the developers will give this a look. To them, they see nothing wrong with what they've got.

[LBzrule]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

There is no chance the developers will give this a look. To them, they see nothing wrong with what they've got.

I gave them a link to the thread along with that Ravens vs Redskins video.

[LBzrule]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

Part of me wonders though is this a specific type of pass rusher that is causing this animation script with the offensive tackles. Kruger and Upshaw have pretty high power move ratings. Suggs does too, although he's not in these videos. I wonder if those LSU DE's are more power move guys? I'm not sure though because I get it with the USC DE's on occasion along with the Oregon guys as well. I need to play as KState and see. What I can say is the OLB's just based on playing with Bama, their rush angles out of 3-4 Odd result in a lot of bouncing with the offensive tackle. I

[briz1744]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

can't link this but people in this thread might be interested in an article that is linked to a tweet sent to both Donny and Looman on the effect on pass rush of the BSH rating
Sorry I can't link but check out their twitter timelines by using twitter search, looks like one way to improve edge rush would be re-rate DLs globally

[GiantBlue76]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

Part of me wonders though is this a specific type of pass rusher that is causing this animation script with the offensive tackles. Kruger and Upshaw have pretty high power move ratings. Suggs does too, although he's not in these videos. I wonder if those LSU DE's are more power move guys? I'm not sure though because I get it with the USC DE's on occasion along with the Oregon guys as well. I need to play as KState and see. What I can say is the OLB's just based on playing with Bama, their rush angles out of 3-4 Odd result in a lot of bouncing with the offensive tackle. I

try finding a pass rusher that fits the mold of a JPP or Osi Umenyiora. Speedy, with low power moves and 90+ finesse moves. Last year in our league we had guys drafting DL with super high power moves, because those guys were much more effective. JPP had 99 agility, acceleration and finess moves for me and was completely useless 90% of the time. That's just plain awful. It negates the personnel you have on the field and basically makes the teams generic in how they play. JPP is a special athlete who is damn near unblockable for most tackles. That should be reflected in the game. Not with sacks on ever play, but with the proper engagement with the tackle. Umenyiora is an edge speed rusher and will use an outside move very often. Many times if he is neutralized, he'll get blocked up field way past the QB. Do DEs even get pushed upfield past the QB (forming the pocket) in this game? I've rarely seen it if it does happen. Would be nice if it was fixed somewhat for this game and definitely made awesome next year.

[LBzrule]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

can't link this but people in this thread might be interested in an article that is linked to a tweet sent to both Donny and Looman on the effect on pass rush of the BSH rating
Sorry I can't link but check out their twitter timelines by using twitter search, looks like one way to improve edge rush would be re-rate DLs globally

Ehhh this is why a discussion with them is necessary. It sounds to me they understand improved edge rush as quick block shed and get to the QB. I don't think that's what the community wants because then the Offensive Tackles mean nothing. Just based on the videos I think what we want is:

1) DE's exploding out of their stance faster
2) which results in them getting up the field faster
3) Engagement and fighting towards the QB like in the Ravens vs Redskins or LSU vs Bama; Dip the shoulder and drive those damn feet. OT's can win by steering them past the QB and the QB stepping up. No bouncing, just smooth engage and fighting towards the QB, with good tackles keeping the defender at bay and steering him past and bad tackles getting pushed back into the QB and the block eventually shed.
4) The animation is too slow. That's one of the biggest issues IMO. Of course all we have seen it on is Pro so it might play faster on higher settings.


Making global rating changes tend to never be good.

I guess the first thing that needs to be figured out is what is causing the animation I discussed with the DE's and OT's to trigger? Is it Power Move; Block Shed; a combination of both?

[LBzrule]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

try finding a pass rusher that fits the mold of a JPP or Osi Umenyiora. Speedy, with low power moves and 90+ finesse moves. Last year in our league we had guys drafting DL with super high power moves, because those guys were much more effective. JPP had 99 agility, acceleration and finess moves for me and was completely useless 90% of the time. That's just plain awful. It negates the personnel you have on the field and basically makes the teams generic in how they play. JPP is a special athlete who is damn near unblockable for most tackles. That should be reflected in the game. Not with sacks on ever play, but with the proper engagement with the tackle. Umenyiora is an edge speed rusher and will use an outside move very often. Many times if he is neutralized, he'll get blocked up field way past the QB. Do DEs even get pushed upfield past the QB (forming the pocket) in this game? I've rarely seen it if it does happen. Would be nice if it was fixed somewhat for this game and definitely made awesome next year.

The highlighted is very important. IT does not happen. I think they can address that. Everything that we are talking about right now is already in the game. It's just a matter of what is causing it in some situations and not others. Again, the Ravens vs Redskins was the only time I saw it in any of the Madden E3 videos and I'm wondering if it was because of Kruger and Upshaw high power move ratings or block shed. Not sure. I'll go back and look through but I don't recall it happening in any of the Giants, Colts, Redskins, Vikings. I'm going to go back and look through all E3 videos just to look for that. Esshhhh, why? For me, if it is just ratings then it'll make getting the game worth it. If we can pinpoint who is doing it and who is not then it might just be ratings related. If that's the case the fix would definitely be easy.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

The highlighted is very important. IT does not happen. I think they can address that. Everything that we are talking about right now is already in the game. It's just a matter of what is causing it in some situations and not others. Again, the Ravens vs Redskins was the only time I saw it in any of the Madden E3 videos and I'm wondering if it was because of Kruger and Upshaw high power move ratings or block shed. Not sure. I'll go back and look through but I don't recall it happening in any of the Giants, Colts, Redskins, Vikings. I'm going to go back and look through all E3 videos just to look for that. Esshhhh, why? For me, if it is just ratings then it'll make getting the game worth it. If we can pinpoint who is doing it and who is not then it might just be ratings related. If that's the case the fix would definitely be easy.

That would be good. I still think there is much work to be done to get their line play to look and behave realistically in this space, but that would certainly be a massive improvement. I was playing APF yesterday and I was paying specific attention to this area. I've got JPP as a gold and Tuck as a silver, both being pass rushing studs in the game. When computer controlled, they would dip their shoulders and rush upfield, while engaged with the tackle, they would try various moves to get free. Many times simply being pushed BEHIND the QB, just like in real life. On an inside move I saw JPP do a rip move then a sping in attempting to get there and he was literally pushed out of the play completely while Romo stepped up in the pocket and delivered a pass. This is what I want to see in this game. Make my elite defensive lineman matter in this game and force the QB to step up in the pocket. Allow my elite pass rushers to matter, and allow me to play with the Giants like they are in real life. Relying on that front 4 to get pressure instead of blitzing every single play.