EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

[LBzrule]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

IMO this is caused more by the flawed rating system than issues with animations, the the OVR is calculated varies by position and generally values seed over strength etc making it harder for DTs to achieve high OVR
Thus Donny Moore artificially increases individual attribute ratings on DTs like BSH and PMV to bring the OVRs at this position in line with other positions
Combine this with underrating most OCs in many strength catergories and the onterior rush overpowers the OLs far too easily once the game is tuned to give any outside rush at all and unbalances the lineplay

The only problem is if Donny does not increase BSH and PMV for DT's then they are pretty garbage against the run. So they need to figure out some ratings issues.

[briz1744]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

The only problem is if Donny does not increase BSH and PMV for DT's then they are pretty garbage against the run. So they need to figure out some ratings issues.

Agreed its the OL/DT/DE balance that needs work as a whole but most DTs aren't making tons of tackles more occupying blockers to free up LBs

[LBzrule]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

Recorded some more footage from NCAA.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/N2Kj6kQoL_4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



That fighting towards the QB animation happens a bit more than I thought. Still not enough for my taste. There is still just something wrong though. I've talked about getting defenders out of their stances faster and speeding up the animation.
When the animation occurs, notice I'm just standing in the pocket with no urgency to get rid of the football. I have plenty of time. With the QB I don't feel the pass rush closing in or bearing down on me. I chill most of the time. I don't think they need to always disengage, I think there needs to be more push/fight animations.

At 3:57 it looks really good on the right side of the screen Baylor OLB vs K State RT. That bounce slows it down and the animation in general is kinda slow. Happens again on the right side at 4:22 and 4:47. Again, I'm just chilling in the pocket. On that last one I step up because I'm looking for the post for the TD. I wonder how this will play out on higher levels? Is the animation faster? Will I be forced to step up?

[hay99077]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

Recorded some more footage from NCAA.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/N2Kj6kQoL_4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



That fighting towards the QB animation happens a bit more than I thought. Still not enough for my taste. There is still just something wrong though. I've talked about getting defenders out of their stances faster and speeding up the animation.
When the animation occurs, notice I'm just standing in the pocket with no urgency to get rid of the football. I have plenty of time. With the QB I don't feel the pass rush closing in or bearing down on me. I chill most of the time. I don't think they need to always disengage, I think there needs to be more push/fight animations.

At 3:57 it looks really good on the right side of the screen Baylor OLB vs K State RT. That bounce slows it down and the animation in general is kinda slow. Happens again on the right side at 4:22 and 4:47. Again, I'm just chilling in the pocket. On that last one I step up because I'm looking for the post for the TD. I wonder how this will play out on higher levels? Is the animation faster? Will I be forced to step up?

In the play at the 4:22 mark, it looks like the linebacker blitzes and is able to get into the animation as well. This would be a huge issue for 3-4 users as someone previously mentioned the issue of linebacker pass rush angles differing from those of 4-3 DE's.

[LBzrule]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

In the play at the 4:22 mark, it looks like the linebacker blitzes and is able to get into the animation as well. This would be a huge issue for 3-4 users as someone previously mentioned the issue of linebacker pass rush angles differing from those of 4-3 DE's.

Yeah, it is the OLB in Nickel 33. So I'm going to take it that it can happen in most defenses. Going to look at Bama vs LSU here in a sec and look at it out of every 3-4 front.

[btemp]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

I have been saying this for years. EA is working on the WR/CB one on one match up, and that's cool, but the real match up that needs attention is the DE/OT one on one battle. That, in my opinion will make the game more realistic. Not only will it help in passing plays, but it will open up draw plays and bootleg plays. What is the point of having a good pass rusher if they are not affective in the game at all. Also, if you have a one dimensional pass rusher, you should be able to take advantage of him by running at him. I'm sure that EA has heard this before and (hopefully) is working on this. I enjoy playing the game, just want it to evolve more.

+1 DL/OL play has been horrible for years, its a real black eye for Madden. I'm excited about physics, but it really needed to be applied to the DL/OL not for improving tackling animation.

I'm pretty sure using a 200 LB player effectively at DT is a bigger problem than tackling. Line play drives me crazy and its been embarrassing for years.

[TarHeelPhenom]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

I was messing around with the NCAA 13 demo the other day...spcifically the OL/DL interaction. I was playing as LSU against Bama. I sat and watched the RDE vs. LT. I tried it a couple of different ways and came away with this:

1) With the game on default, if you play as the DE and you let the action begin before you try to make any moves, it automatically goes into the bounce animation. Problem is there is no branching out of it.

2) If you press down/left/right on the left stick immediately after the ball is snapped and attempt your defensive moves agaist the CPU's OL there is a chance this animation will not trigger. I did this a few times and came away either overpowering the OL by pushing him to the ground, getting the sack or barely missing him.

I don't know...maybe the sliders will be able to do something to the gameplay interaction so that you won't automatically go into that bounce animation.

[kongemeier]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

@ LBz: https://jobs.ea.com/

[RandyBass]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

...That fighting towards the QB animation happens a bit more than I thought. Still not enough for my taste. There is still just something wrong though. I've talked about getting defenders out of their stances faster and speeding up the animation.
When the animation occurs, notice I'm just standing in the pocket with no urgency to get rid of the football. I have plenty of time. With the QB I don't feel the pass rush closing in or bearing down on me. I chill most of the time. I don't think they need to always disengage, I think there needs to be more push/fight animations.

At 3:57 it looks really good on the right side of the screen Baylor OLB vs K State RT. That bounce slows it down and the animation in general is kinda slow. Happens again on the right side at 4:22 and 4:47. Again, I'm just chilling in the pocket. On that last one I step up because I'm looking for the post for the TD. I wonder how this will play out on higher levels? Is the animation faster? Will I be forced to step up?

Those look pretty good, but as you noted they need to have the pass rusher be able to break free to be an actual threat.

I really think as a quick fix they need to give outside pass rushers a boost of some sort so that you do see those guys break free more often, even if they don't have a good set of animations in place to make it look exactly right. So whatever "win" they have for outside rushers, it needs to happen more often.

Then of course long term they need to come up with animations that better represent the fight that goes on at the line.

[RandyBass]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

Praise Marty Moose!

lol

[Big FN Deal]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

I am bumping this old thread because recently a patch for NCAA 13 was released that had a particular addition that caught my eye.

First off, some time ago Gotmad posted this in the NCAA forum;

Since video is more helpful then words here you go. #55 DE is user controlled by me. This is something you will NEVER see a CPU controlled DE do.

1. CPU controlled Defensive End don't ever rush to the inside shoulder of an offensive tackle, they always rush to the outside shoulder in a pre-determined arc.

2. CPU controlled Defensive End don't ever execute a successful spin move passed an offensive tackle.

As you see in the beginning of this video, #55 DE controlled by me, spins to the inside, throwing the OT OFF of me and make a straight line towards the QB.

Second half of the video, #99 DE controlled by the CPU does what a CPU controlled Defensive End ALWAYS do. Rush to the outside doing that patty cake animation, never getting passed the OT.

This needs to change in NCAA 13. Come on guys, you still tuning game play, get it tuned before the game comes out.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...rolled-de.html

Now the video is no loner available but what he is talking about is the AI having CPU defenders, even the other 10 CPU defenders on a User controlled team, to use pass rush moves. OK, so back to the NCAA 13 tittle update/patch and here is what caught my attention;

• Increased frequency of AI using ball carrier special moves.
• http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2044006545
  

So if these can be done for ball carriers, why can't it be done for DEs, allowing them to use pass rush moves and combinations of those moves to get to the QB, more effectively, according to their ratings?

[Senator Palmer]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

Wish I could have liked your post twice, Big. What you're saying makes a lot of sense, and I'm holding out hope that improvements like these can be made, but they've never been able to get the defensive linemen to function with the level of independence and creativity that the running backs in Madden are now tuned with, and it's probably because the offensive/defensive line movements are still tied together.

As LBz pointed out a long time ago, defensive ends look to engage at the snap. That bit of programming, the fact that pass rushers don't look to create space, seems to have something to do with them being limited in their moves and probably explains why you used to see d-linemen falling over themselves when they went for a spin move, or not slapping down the o-linemen's hands to set up a real finesse move. The fact that they're not programmed to move independently seems to bottleneck the effectiveness of whatever moves the pass rush ratings call on. So even if you saw a CPU DE go for an inside move, there's not enough engaged movement to make that move consistently effective (just from my observations). Even if you could get the d-linemen to call on power moves, it would just be win/loss calculations instead of real trench fighting. You'd get Haloti Ngata doing that instant rip/swim move that DTs did 2 years ago, overwhelming o-linemen, or the bull rush animation they put into the game where the d-linemen just pushes the o-linemen over. With the absence of engaged player movement that BezO talks about, everything on the line still seems to come down to wins or losses played out by a limited number of animations and that doesn't make for a very balanced or realistic outcome.

Madden runners, especially for the past few years, have called on their special moves almost too frequently in my opinion. A few years ago, every back would automatically hurdle when a tackler went low. This year - from playing the demo - it looks like the spin move is going to be the move de jour. Add to that, the past few cycles, they've improved the ball carrier vision to where the runners looked for open space instead of just running to the playart. The defensive line has never enjoyed that level of attention from the programmers.

I know that last year some of the slider guys said that if you changed this value or that value, it would unlock pass rush animations that weren't seen in default settings, but if the Madden team hasn't caught on to a way to unlock secondary pass rush moves, or inside moves by now, and do it in a balanced way, then I don't know that they're going to get it done this cycle.

[mtmetcalfe]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

bump
The pass rush is still really lacking. I've played about 5 games on the demo and never see any push from the front 4 and when I blitz suction block makes an apperance

[Big FN Deal]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

@Senator, I feel everything that you said in your post and my question is, in that video Gotmad posted, it showed him User controlling a DE to effectively and realistically get by the Tackle, so if the User is able to overcome the issue with the OL/DL being "linked" using pass rush moves, why not CPU controlled defenders?

I am not suggesting this as a "fix", just a way to improve on what's currently available. If they can patch in special moves for the RB, I hope they can for DEs too. I am thinking specifically for finesse moves, not power moves which I think is what DTs are using for instant success.

[slick589]

Re: EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

The pass rush is fine, how can you say it's lacking. I get like 5 sacks a game, and always get sacked on third and long in the demo.

Where do you get pressure from? The dt's and le while the re gets no pressure at all?