Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

[majesty95]

I've come to the realization that the team at Tiburon is limited by what the inital developers of next gen NCAA left them with. I'm not excusing the issues that we have seen the last two years, but I think it is becoming clear that this engine has run its course and needs to be redone.

The good news? The Infinity Engine.

Both Madden and NCAA have been plagued by a poorly thought out/implemented next gen engine and have been fighting an uphill battle on it ever since. With a brand new engine (hopefully with much more functionality and capability) I think we finally have the potential to see all of the great things we have been asking for.

Again, not excusing EA from what has transpired over the past 13 months, but I do see a light at the end of the tunnel.

[Pezell04x]

I've come to the realization that the team at Tiburon is limited by what the inital developers of next gen NCAA left them with. I'm not excusing the issues that we have seen the last two years, but I think it is becoming clear that this engine has run its course and needs to be redone.

The good news? The Infinity Engine.

Both Madden and NCAA have been plagued by a poorly thought out/implemented next gen engine and have been fighting an uphill battle on it ever since. With a brand new engine (hopefully with much more functionality and capability) I think we finally have the potential to see all of the great things we have been asking for.

Again, not excusing EA from what has transpired over the past 13 months, but I do see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Or it will be a disaster. Madden 13 will be a good test.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[jim8015]

Re: Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

Whatever it takes to get your $60 for another year. Next year will be new this, the year after will be new that.

[Colt45]

Re: Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

How is this going to be different than any of the other lights at the end of the tunnel?

[RumbleCard]

Re: Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

How is this going to be different than any of the other lights at the end of the tunnel?

Whatever it takes to get your $60 for another year. Next year will be new this, the year after will be new that.

Yeah but you're failing to realize that they're not just arbitrarily dropping random features and gimmicks like years past. Connected Careers, Infinity engine and better booth audio quality are exactly what people have been asking for these last two years. It may not be perfect for everyone but based on the general consensus they're listening to the things the hardcore fans want. Its a sincere step in the right direction.

I think there is good reason for that. There is or was a huge misconception of casual gamer vs. hardcore gamer with the previous developers and their superiors. I'm not going to dig the stat back up but somewhere in the range of 70% of Madden customers are repeat customers within the last 5 years. That means that a large portion of their clientele is in reality a lot closer to the regular buyers/players than random casual one time buyers.

[Pezell04x]

Yeah but you're failing to realize that they're not just arbitrarily dropping random features and gimmicks like years past. Connected Careers, Infinity engine and better booth audio quality are exactly what people have been asking for these last two years. It may not be perfect for everyone but based on the general consensus they're listening to the things the hardcore fans want. Its a sincere step in the right direction.

I think there is good reason for that. There is or was a huge misconception of casual gamer vs. hardcore gamer with the previous developers and their superiors. I'm not going to dig the stat back up but somewhere in the range of 70% of Madden customers are repeat customers within the last 5 years. That means that a large portion of their clientele is in reality a lot closer to the regular buyers/players than random casual one time buyers.

But when I watched Madden clips and game play, I never got better booth audio. There was still a lot of dead spots between plays.

I'm under the guise that commentary is not EA's forte. Only one of their big 4 sport games has good to great commentary and that's FIFA. NHL, NCAA and Madden all have terrible commentary.

I'm more interested in what Connected Careers can bring (or restrict from us) at a collegiate level.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[GSU Panther]

Re: Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

I would rather have all the uniforms, helmets, bugs, glitches, plays, stadiums, fans, sidelines, medical redshirts, spring games, 16 team ODs, full customizeable conferences fixed instead of infinity but that will never happpen unfortunately

[PowerofRed25]

Re: Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

How is this going to be different than any of the other lights at the end of the tunnel?

Maybe this time it won't be a train coming to plow you over. Maybe.

Yeah, probably not.

[RumbleCard]

Re: Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

But when I watched Madden clips and game play, I never got better booth audio. There was still a lot of dead spots between plays.

I'm under the guise that commentary is not EA's forte. Only one of their big 4 sport games has good to great commentary and that's FIFA. NHL, NCAA and Madden all have terrible commentary.

I'm more interested in what Connected Careers can bring (or restrict from us) at a collegiate level.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Don't get me wrong its not as good as 2k or some of the other games but what I mean is that it was a step in the right direction. The so called light at the end of the tunnel.

Last year was horrendous for Madden. Two commentators recorded at different volumes in different booths. At least this year its moderately fresh with the recording done by both guys in one booth at the same time. Again they're listening. Could/should it be better? Yes, but at least they're moving in the right direction instead of away from it which is what we've been seeing for prior 5 or so years.

[tested29]

Re: Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

Yeah but you're failing to realize that they're not just arbitrarily dropping random features and gimmicks like years past. Connected Careers, Infinity engine and better booth audio quality are exactly what people have been asking for these last two years. It may not be perfect for everyone but based on the general consensus they're listening to the things the hardcore fans want. Its a sincere step in the right direction.

I think there is good reason for that. There is or was a huge misconception of casual gamer vs. hardcore gamer with the previous developers and their superiors. I'm not going to dig the stat back up but somewhere in the range of 70% of Madden customers are repeat customers within the last 5 years. That means that a large portion of their clientele is in reality a lot closer to the regular buyers/players than random casual one time buyers.

Although 70% may be repeat buyers, I would argue only a small portion of that percent would classify as "hardcore" gamers, i.e. people like us on OS who notice the small things. Just because people buy the game year after year really doesn't mean much. In my opinion the majority of people who play these games will forever be casual gamers and that is why EA will continue to cater to them, not players like us. I mean, I have friends that buy both NCAA and Madden each year, but mention sliders or downloading rosters and they will give you a blank stare. They never even up the difficulty.

The new things EA is adding may be slightly more "hardcore" related(infinity engine), but the small, miniscule details(socks, facemasks) only we notice still go unchanged because, IMO, EA knows no one but us notices them. They're not things EA can tout as new improvements so changing them is a low priority.

[Buckeye Country]

Re: Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

I've come to the realization that the team at Tiburon is limited by what the inital developers of next gen NCAA left them with. I'm not excusing the issues that we have seen the last two years, but I think it is becoming clear that this engine has run its course and needs to be redone.

The good news? The Infinity Engine.

Both Madden and NCAA have been plagued by a poorly thought out/implemented next gen engine and have been fighting an uphill battle on it ever since. With a brand new engine (hopefully with much more functionality and capability) I think we finally have the potential to see all of the great things we have been asking for.

Again, not excusing EA from what has transpired over the past 13 months, but I do see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Stupid question, but is there a new engine this year?

[stoncold32]

Re: Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

How are they limited when they can't even consistently make a great game with what they have now?

Not tryin to be mean, but we've seen this game play very well in '11, and just needed to be tweaked for the better.

But they messed it up in 12

[RumbleCard]

Re: Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

Although 70% may be repeat buyers, I would argue only a small portion of that percent would classify as "hardcore" gamers, i.e. people like us on OS who notice the small things. Just because people buy the game year after year really doesn't mean much. In my opinion the majority of people who play these games will forever be casual gamers and that is why EA will continue to cater to them, not players like us. I mean, I have friends that buy both NCAA and Madden each year, but mention sliders or downloading rosters and they will give you a blank stare. They never even up the difficulty.

The new things EA is adding may be slightly more "hardcore" related(infinity engine), but the small, miniscule details(socks, facemasks) only we notice still go unchanged because, IMO, EA knows no one but us notices them. They're not things EA can tout as new improvements so changing them is a low priority.

I do agree with what you're saying. Some of the more aesthetically anal retentive aspects aren't high on the priority list.

I don't believe OS to solely be that upper 10% extreme gamer (but yeah they're here). I certainly don't consider myself to be one. I think OS largely consists of gamers who just want a good deep authentic gaming experience. Even if OS represents a more dedicated gamer they still represent to a lesser extent the buying majority when it comes to EA games.

Think of it in these terms.

Whether it be the annual buyer, guy who buys every other year or even every 3-4 years that gamer is enticed to buy based on the idea that the game is authentic, deep and has high replay value. An authentic sporting experience. Not because he/she is a casual gamer who can play the game with 3 buttons. These so called casual gamers are really buying for the same reason or fundamental essence the hardcore gamer is. They just don't obsess over it. I do believe that EA now see that misconception which is why they're listening now more than ever.

The whole notion that EA is going to pluck mmorpg gamers by simplifying the game is a game plan of the past. Two button gaming or gimmicky features to entice the first time buyer didn't work. That causal gamer catering mentality is a failed experiment. It appears that the target audience gamer is looking for something very similar to the hardcore gamer...just without the obsession. However the ideas that come from that upper 10% translate very well to the core of their target market. Infinity, twitter feeds, better booth audio, online gaming.

Just because the obsessive gamers are a limited group doesn't mean their idea of what makes a great game wouldn't apply to their target audience. Which I don't feel is a "casual" gamer. Their core demographic wants an authentic deep experience. The so called causal gamer is a lot closer to the hardcore sim gamer than the gamer who would be a first time buyer.

[gogators]

Re: Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

Everyone I've seen that has played earlier builds if Madden already say NCAA feels old and stale after playing/seeing the Infinity Engine. Hopefully they can fine tune it for OL/DL, WR/DB interaction for NCAA next year. I shouldn't have to say that and the IE should be in this year.

[tested29]

Re: Light at the End of the Tunnel - Infinity

Retracted to save scrolling

I agree. Great post. I apologize, in my post I did a very poor job of conveying what I wanted to really. Let me clarify.

By "hardcore" I meant, more or less, the players who play the game, but who notice the things that are wrong. Not necessarily the players who just obsess over socks and facemasks, but rather the people who, like you said, are dedicated and want a good deep authentic gaming experience, whether it be through accurate uniforms or gameplay, etc etc . The OS community represents this. We, by far and large, love the game, but we also know what it could and should be.

By "casual gamer" I meant the players who buy the game, pop the disc in and play to their hearts content - never really having a problem with anything in the game. They play the game and get that satisfactory experience from day 1. They don't need any changes made, so each year when something new comes out it really is a "wow!" experience for them, unlike us where it's a "cool, but wheres the...." experience.

Because we, the more dedicated crowd, are a smaller majority, 30% to maybe 40% of the entire percentage of buyers for NCAA and Madden I would guess, EA doesn't quite take us into full account because the majority of their money isn't being made from our percentage. That's why, I believe, EA chooses to not change the things we notice and rather implement things the majority will take note of. These changes may stem from ideas started in forums like these like you said, but they are changed and softened to appeal to the mass majority(people called for real physics and we got semi real physics with infinity). Its this reason though why the things so many people want changed each year are left untouched.

The infinity engine may be a little light at the end of the tunnel, but until EA fixes other glaring issues it might as well be a dim flashlight at the end of the tunnel. It's a bit of another band-aide to me.