NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

[Weapon X]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

^That actually sounds better and more realistic that the old RS save system... if I read it correctly and it works as described, that is.

WX

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

The cpu goalies look great,except fot the stupid 1950`s upright post hug.

Get rid of it,so the game will actually use the modern ones that are in the game.
Why EA is in love with this ancient stance is beyond me.

For human goalies,....we`re getting hosed.
Less control then NHL12.

The human goalie can`t use the paddle down technique effectively,because we can`t use it inside the crease.The cpu goalie can,....not the human goalies.

[RealmK]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

The cpu goalies look great,except fot the stupid 1950`s upright post hug.

Get rid of it,so the game will actually use the modern ones that are in the game.
Why EA is in love with this ancient stance is beyond me.

For human goalies,....we`re getting hosed.
Less control then NHL12.

The human goalie can`t use the paddle down technique effectively,because we can`t use it inside the crease.The cpu goalie can,....not the human goalies.

Why not wait and play it before proclaiming doom and gloom?

[gopher_guy]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

The cpu goalies look great,except fot the stupid 1950`s upright post hug.

Get rid of it,so the game will actually use the modern ones that are in the game.
Why EA is in love with this ancient stance is beyond me.

For human goalies,....we`re getting hosed.
Less control then NHL12.

The human goalie can`t use the paddle down technique effectively,because we can`t use it inside the crease.The cpu goalie can,....not the human goalies.

Doesn't there just come a point where there's only so much you can control with two joysticks and 4 triggers/bumpers?

What would be your ideal controller layout to have the amount of control you are pleading for?

(Not being a jerk with that question... Legitimately curious...)

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

Why not wait and play it before proclaiming doom and gloom?

Why not tell me where I`ve been wrong in what I`ve said?

[Weapon X]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

For human goalies,....we`re getting hosed.
Less control then NHL12.

Rogie, you know that I hear you on a lot of the goalie stuff, as you usually have our (user goalies) best interests in mind, but when it comes to this, our thought processes go completely separate ways.

The real question is, how exactly do you think the new RS system using 'anticipation' give us less control than the NHL 12 variant of "flick RS in a direction; get locked into the only animation that command triggers; pray the puck hits the miniscule pre-determined 'save area' the animation contains lest you enjoy getting lit up like a Las Vegas casino"? The old system was so impractical, I found it to be a better venture to just not touch it at all and let the ratings make the saves, which really takes the immersion (and technically, control) out of playing goal. Even then, playing that way had problems arise (I know for a fact that a cross-crease pass is coming, but it doesn't matter, because the desperation controls have become too clunky to fire off on reaction, and unless my Angles, Agility and Speed ratings are jacked out the arse, I'm basically up ****s creek). If the anticipation works as intended, it makes the system more intuitive while possibly giving the user incentive to use the RS again. If I read correctly, flicking (or perhaps holding) RS in a direction will now influence the side in which the user thinks the save should be attempted on, where the new independent limb system and ratings will then take over again. Not to mention it may also be able to initiated the "cheating" system the game now allegedly has so you aren't helpless if you know a cross-crease pass is coming but don't have the proper ratings jacked up. So basically, it may in fact give manual control back to those of us who crave it without the gigantic handicap that the old system put on us when compared the the results of not using it at all.

WX

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

Doesn't there just come a point where there's only so much you can control with two joysticks and 4 triggers/bumpers?

What would be your ideal controller layout to have the amount of control you are pleading for?

(Not being a jerk with that question... Legitimately curious...)

The post hugs and the paddle down and VH technique should function and be triggered using the NHL11 control layout.
This allowed the human user the ability to use the paddle down and the VH techniques effectively.They had the choice and ability to use either one correctly.

NHL12,the paddle down was rendered useless for the human goalie because it can`t be used as a post hug and you can`t get into the stance if you are inside the crease,.........which is actually where it is predominantly used in the real world game.

You would be surprised with what one could do with the current controller scheme.

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

Rogie, you know that I hear you on a lot of the goalie stuff, as you usually have our (user goalies) best interests in mind, but when it comes to this, our thought processes go completely separate ways.

The real question is, how exactly do you think the new RS system using 'anticipation' give us less control than the NHL 12 variant of "flick RS in a direction; get locked into the only animation that command triggers; pray the puck hits the miniscule pre-determined 'save area' the animation contains lest you enjoy getting lit up like a Las Vegas casino"? The old system was so impractical, I found it to be a better venture to just not touch it at all and let the ratings make the saves, which really takes the immersion (and technically, control) out of playing goal. Even then, playing that way had problems arise (I know for a fact that a cross-crease pass is coming, but it doesn't matter, because the desperation controls have become too clunky to fire off on reaction, and unless my Angles, Agility and Speed ratings are jacked out the arse, I'm basically up ****s creek). If the anticipation works as intended, it makes the system more intuitive while possibly giving the user incentive to use the RS again. If I read correctly, flicking (or perhaps holding) RS in a direction will now influence the side in which the user thinks the save should be attempted on, where the new independent limb system and ratings will then take over again. Not to mention it may also be able to initiated the "cheating" system the game now allegedly has so you aren't helpless if you know a cross-crease pass is coming but don't have the proper ratings jacked up. So basically, it may in fact give manual control back to those of us who crave it without the gigantic handicap that the old system put on us when compared the the results of not using it at all.

WX

Trust me,..I understand what you are saying,and others.

I understand what this change is doing.
It`s only being used to enhance with the new AI what will be auto triggered reactions/saves.

What limited control we had doing anything with our limbs with the RS was still human controlled,....and could also be used in desperation to a late deflection or puck being passed against the grain...lots of different situations.

That being said,...I can`t deny that it was very bare bones limited.

Taking it away wasn`t the solution though.

Who in the hell wants to play the position when you don`t have to do anything? It`s like being a glorified Pong paddle with the cpu doing all the fun stuff.

I`m sorry,but playing as a goalie in NHL12 was not good,and it wasn`t because of the Right Stick Manual Saves....where if you didn`t like to use them,....hey,you didn`t have to use them.

NHL11 was where they were on the right track...moving forward from there,giving us more manual control should have been easy.
Instead we`re going backwards.

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

Here`s what the controls should look like.

LS - Move

LT - Butterfly

RT - Modern Standing Post Hug

LT+RT - Paddle Down Post Hug
***(use X button to cycle between Paddle Down and VH stance)

LB - Precision LS Movement - change to Free Skate?
A - Free Skate - change to Shove/Slash or use for something else?
Y - Cover Puck

(when passing puck)
RT - normal pass (glove pass,exquisitly tuned to please)
RB + RT - flip pass/dump

........................Right Stick Moves (when in normal stance or butterfly stance)

Up - Pokecheck - out and hold out on ice for a second or two ( and this needs to function much better )
Down - go down to make butterfly save or kick save,then recover back into normal crouch

Top left - Glove/Stick High Left
Middle left - Glove/Stick Middle Left
Bottom Left - Leg Save Left

Top Right - Glove/Stick High Right
Middle Right - Glove/Stick Middle Right
Bottom Right - Leg Save Right

-Right Stick Moves while in Paddle Down or VH ( LT+RT ) example below is when the puck is on the right side,in the corner or behind the net
(for the left side, controls are flipped)

Top left - glove high
Middle Left - glove middle
Bottom Left - pad/glove low left
Up - lift left shoulder/glove high

Top Right - lift right shoulder/blocker high
Middle Right - lean against post in paddle down,close down the 5 hole in VH
Bottom Right - poke check
Down - poke check/block pass from behind or side of net

.......................Desperation Saves
RB - modifier for RS desperation moves

RB+Up - Diving desperation save,while in free skate can do the diving-head first poke check
RB+Left - Stack pads to the left
RB+Right - Stack pads to the right
RB+Down - Spread Eagle

.................................................. ...................................

I`m not sure if I`ve missed anything,..but this covers a lot,...and there`s still room to do more stuff.

The important thing to note is,...ergonomically,....this layout is about as perfect as it can get.

[Weapon X]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

It`s only being used to enhance with the new AI what will be auto triggered reactions/saves.

Which is how it was in 12 if you actually wanted to be a decent 'tender. At least this could possibly give us some user error into that system without the gigantic handicap from the previous installment.

What limited control we had doing anything with our limbs with the RS was still human controlled,....and could also be used in desperation to a late deflection or puck being passed against the grain...lots of different situations.

Yet it was completely impractical 99% of the time, and again it acted as a self-imposed handicap rather than the "user freedom of selection" system most assume it was intended to be.

Who in the hell wants to play the position when you don`t have to do anything? It`s like being a glorified Pong paddle with the cpu doing all the fun stuff.

But that's exactly what happens anyway in 12. In fact, it's how I've been forced to play goal in every iteration of the game since Goalie Mode was introduced back in 08 if I didn't want to get blown up on the score sheet. If you don't touch the RS at all in NHL 12, the ratings + your positioning alone determines the save. It happens regardless. This system just appears like its trying to get the user involved into said system with better "success v faliure" results if you anticipate / read the shot correctly. If you wanted to be decent in the NHL series in goal, you didn't touch RS at all and let your ratings bail you out. That was the cardinal rule for the past 5 years. That's one of the ways I was always able to obtain legit stats with my BAP characters over the years. If this system influences more RS use and promotes user error without locking them into one lone animation, then it's by definition adding control, not subtracting.

I`m sorry,but playing as a goalie in NHL12 was not good,and it wasn`t because of the Right Stick Manual Saves....where if you didn`t like to use them,....hey,you didn`t have to use them.

Isn't that part of the problem? That you didn't have to use manual saves at all (with better results imminent if you didn't), when in reality we do have to do something other than just dropping to the butterfly when we see a puck rocketing towards us?

WX

[gamerk2]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

Edited video of a cpu controlled goalie is,.... meh.

What can human controlled goalies do? Half of what the cpu goalies can?

What if human skaters could only do half the abilties as cpu controlled players?
You think all hell would break loose?

Frankly, I'd be happy if I could pull the save I WANT to pull. You have any idea how many times I know EXACTLY where the puck is going to go, but have no option to pull out the sliding save animation that I know will actually save the puck?

That's the biggest problem in 12: You have no control over what animations you get, so you have to have almost perfect positional play, because you have no ability to correct when beaten [and it does happen]. Hence why so many EASHL goalies have ~800 save percentages and ~3.5 GAA's, and only maybe 5 have stats approaching real life.

[gamerk2]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

From today's new goalie blog:

http://www.easports.com/nhl/news/article/nhl-13-goalie-deep-dive

User Controlled Goalies - Anticipation

This year the right stick is used to anticipate a save, allowing the human controlled goalie to prepare for a shot without committing to the save and moving out of position. If the player guesses right they are that much more likely to make the save. Guessing wrong still leaves the goalie with a chance to make a save, but they’re going to be an instant slower which could be costly.

Once committed to a save human controlled goalies will still have the ability to adjust and correct, using their individual limb control to raise a blocker or kick out a pad to make that amazing save.

The poke-check ability has also been improved for human controlled goalies in NHL 13, making it more accurate and increasing the chance that the player controlled goalie will end up with the puck.

This is actually what I've wanted for some time now. Allow me to predict a cross ice pass, but not move out of the way of the guy who still has the puck on the other side of the ice.

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

This is actually what I've wanted for some time now. Allow me to predict a cross ice pass, but not move out of the way of the guy who still has the puck on the other side of the ice.

And you needed the RS to do this?

How does a controller predict what`s going to happen?

Wouldn`t it be you that is doing the anticipating?

Wouldn`t you just rather be able to move well,at the needed time?

Why do you need to move early now?
Does it make sense to move early when the puck carrier can still shoot?

[gamerk2]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

And you needed the RS to do this?

How does a controller predict what`s going to happen?

Wouldn`t it be you that is doing the anticipating?

Wouldn`t you just rather be able to move well,at the needed time?

Why do you need to move early now?
Does it make sense to move early when the puck carrier can still shoot?

You have to move early, because on a cross ice pass, you currently have no chance of making it all the way to the other side of the net before the puck goes in. So you either have to leave part of the short side open [which EASHL players can easily hit], guess exactly when the pass is comming and move then, or wait for the pass to actually happen and hope the puck isn't aimed all the way over at the other post.

Allowing me to press the RS to the right to predict that pass simplifies things. The way I imagine it, this will allow me to play the man without opening the net, and if the pass does come, you get a much faster slide to the other side of the net.

And I again note, if the CPU defense could do ANYTHING, this wouldn't be nearly as big a problem as it currently is. Its the defense job to cover the pass in that situation, but the AI just backs into the net...

[Revan30]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

You have to move early, because on a cross ice pass, you currently have no chance of making it all the way to the other side of the net before the puck goes in. So you either have to leave part of the short side open [which EASHL players can easily hit], guess exactly when the pass is comming and move then, or wait for the pass to actually happen and hope the puck isn't aimed all the way over at the other post.

Allowing me to press the RS to the right to predict that pass simplifies things. The way I imagine it, this will allow me to play the man without opening the net, and if the pass does come, you get a much faster slide to the other side of the net.

And I again note, if the CPU defense could do ANYTHING, this wouldn't be nearly as big a problem as it currently is. Its the defense job to cover the pass in that situation, but the AI just backs into the net...

This is because EA has a terrible skating engine for goalies and it takes them several strides to get across their crease--which is ridiculous and unrealistic.

When playing goal, you should be lined up with the puck at all times. A one-time pass is no different. The reason the cross crease works so much in this game is because goalies are ridiculously slow, even with 99 speed/agility, and the game has a terrible puck physics engine, which means that almost all passes are pretty much tape-to-tape, even with passing accuracy at 0 as well as pass reception at 0. You watch a real NHL game, players try to make cross-crease passes quite often, especially on two-on-ones, but a good 80% of the time, the pass will be too far behind or in front of the recipient, or the recipient will bobble the pass and lose the puck.

And even then, goalies in this game are just so slow. You shouldn't need a button to cheat. If you wanted to cheat you should just do it. You don't need an analog stick to guess--you should just do it. That's what any smart goalie does. It's even worse now that if you don't guess on a play, you're going to be penalized for it, since they said that if you do guess it apparently seems to boost your chances of stopping the puck.

I don't want to have to use a gimmicky right analog feature to do something that I already try to do while playing the game itself. They're just making goaltending more arcadey and clunkey than it has to be.