NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

[RealmK]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

This is because EA has a terrible skating engine for goalies and it takes them several strides to get across their crease--which is ridiculous and unrealistic.

When playing goal, you should be lined up with the puck at all times. A one-time pass is no different. The reason the cross crease works so much in this game is because goalies are ridiculously slow, even with 99 speed/agility, and the game has a terrible puck physics engine, which means that almost all passes are pretty much tape-to-tape, even with passing accuracy at 0 as well as pass reception at 0. You watch a real NHL game, players try to make cross-crease passes quite often, especially on two-on-ones, but a good 80% of the time, the pass will be too far behind or in front of the recipient, or the recipient will bobble the pass and lose the puck.

And even then, goalies in this game are just so slow. You shouldn't need a button to cheat. If you wanted to cheat you should just do it. You don't need an analog stick to guess--you should just do it. That's what any smart goalie does. It's even worse now that if you don't guess on a play, you're going to be penalized for it, since they said that if you do guess it apparently seems to boost your chances of stopping the puck.

I don't want to have to use a gimmicky right analog feature to do something that I already try to do while playing the game itself. They're just making goaltending more arcadey and clunkey than it has to be.

I believe tenders have the same skating that the rest of the players do this year with the new skating engine. How they tune human goalies for OTP/Clubs remains to be seen however.

I still think folks should wait and see how it plays out before condemning how playing as a human tender is going to work in 13.

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

I believe tenders have the same skating that the rest of the players do this year with the new skating engine. How they tune human goalies for OTP/Clubs remains to be seen however.

I still think folks should wait and see how it plays out before condemning how playing as a human tender is going to work in 13.

NO.

There are no skating improvements for the goalie.

I don`t have to wait and see to know they have done nothing to improve human goalies,...all they`ve done is dumb it down.

They hadn`t even fixed the bugs in the goalie animations at the community event.
You know why?
Because they don`t have a clue about goalies.

Glorified PONG paddles!

[Cycloniac]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

NO.

There are no skating improvements for the goalie.

I don`t have to wait and see to know they have done nothing to improve human goalies,...all they`ve done is dumb it down.

They hadn`t even fixed the bugs in the goalie animations at the community event.
You know why?
Because they don`t have a clue about goalies.

Glorified PONG paddles!

Jeez Rogie, so negative. Would you rather the goalies in 12/13 or the goalies back in 10? (I popped in 10 yesterday, you see)

[RealmK]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

NO.

There are no skating improvements for the goalie.

I don`t have to wait and see to know they have done nothing to improve human goalies,...all they`ve done is dumb it down.

They hadn`t even fixed the bugs in the goalie animations at the community event.
You know why?
Because they don`t have a clue about goalies.

Glorified PONG paddles!

So when did you play the full retail version and are you enjoying your new job at EAC?

[gamerk2]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

This is because EA has a terrible skating engine for goalies and it takes them several strides to get across their crease--which is ridiculous and unrealistic.

When playing goal, you should be lined up with the puck at all times. A one-time pass is no different. The reason the cross crease works so much in this game is because goalies are ridiculously slow, even with 99 speed/agility, and the game has a terrible puck physics engine, which means that almost all passes are pretty much tape-to-tape, even with passing accuracy at 0 as well as pass reception at 0. You watch a real NHL game, players try to make cross-crease passes quite often, especially on two-on-ones, but a good 80% of the time, the pass will be too far behind or in front of the recipient, or the recipient will bobble the pass and lose the puck.

And even then, goalies in this game are just so slow. You shouldn't need a button to cheat. If you wanted to cheat you should just do it. You don't need an analog stick to guess--you should just do it. That's what any smart goalie does. It's even worse now that if you don't guess on a play, you're going to be penalized for it, since they said that if you do guess it apparently seems to boost your chances of stopping the puck.

I don't want to have to use a gimmicky right analog feature to do something that I already try to do while playing the game itself. They're just making goaltending more arcadey and clunkey than it has to be.

Slow goalies are indeed the root of the problem. Buts it rediculous that I have to bascially abandon the shot when predicting a cross ice pass.

The way I see it, if you "predict" a pass, you get a major dive across the net, enabling you to quickly get into position, without having to move away from the guy who still has the puck. Of course, if you could mvoe like that to begin with, you wouldn't need to be able to predict...

[bwiggy33]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

NO.

There are no skating improvements for the goalie.

I don`t have to wait and see to know they have done nothing to improve human goalies,...all they`ve done is dumb it down.

They hadn`t even fixed the bugs in the goalie animations at the community event.
You know why?
Because they don`t have a clue about goalies.

Glorified PONG paddles!

I basically agree with you 100% and have the same exact frustrations as you, I just don't play BAP so I wouldn't know what it's like playing goalie on that front. EA has no idea in any way at how a goalie plays, reacts, or moves. Personally I think they need to just about completely redo goalies and someone who knows goaltending needs to provide input in how to make them play the way they should. The two parts to this game that need to be changed are goaltending and the skill stick, once those two are fixed and done properly this game should be extremely good.

[RealmK]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

I basically agree with you 100% and have the same exact frustrations as you, I just don't play BAP so I wouldn't know what it's like playing goalie on that front. EA has no idea in any way at how a goalie plays, reacts, or moves. Personally I think they need to just about completely redo goalies and someone who knows goaltending needs to provide input in how to make them play the way they should. The two parts to this game that need to be changed are goaltending and the skill stick, once those two are fixed and done properly this game should be extremely good.

Here's my question. Why would they do a brand new skating engine, complete with momentum (not over done like 2k btw) and not include goaltenders in that? It just doesn't make any sense.

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

They haven`t done anything with the goalie`s skating while re-doing the skaters.

Whether it makes sense or not,...that`s the way it is.

[bwiggy33]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

Here's my question. Why would they do a brand new skating engine, complete with momentum (not over done like 2k btw) and not include goaltenders in that? It just doesn't make any sense.

Because the goalies have to move 100 times different than the skaters. I mean if you think about it, when they do mo cap sessions they specifically do a player and then a goalie because obviously goalies and players move differently. Nothing that a player does is tied to what the goalie does. Players glide and dig into the ice using both legs in order to skate. Goalies on the other hand shuffle and use short quick movements around the net. The only time goalies and players skate similarly is when the goalie goes out to play the puck.

Realm look at some video footage on youtube of NHL 07 and you will honestly see the same movement by the goalies in NHL 12 and that is no joke. From those videos of 13 goalies DO NOT move any differently at all. It's still the same hyperspeed and miraculously fast reactions. They just look bad all around. Do they make saves? Yes, but the goalies just don't look and move the way they should with this being the 7th edition on 360. It's just been hard for me to believe that this problem hasn't been touched in the 7 years of this game. They've upgraded animations of goalies but that's basically it.

[RealmK]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

Because the goalies have to move 100 times different than the skaters. I mean if you think about it, when they do mo cap sessions they specifically do a player and then a goalie because obviously goalies and players move differently. Nothing that a player does is tied to what the goalie does. Players glide and dig into the ice using both legs in order to skate. Goalies on the other hand shuffle and use short quick movements around the net. The only time goalies and players skate similarly is when the goalie goes out to play the puck.

Realm look at some video footage on youtube of NHL 07 and you will honestly see the same movement by the goalies in NHL 12 and that is no joke. From those videos of 13 goalies DO NOT move any differently at all. It's still the same hyperspeed and miraculously fast reactions. They just look bad all around. Do they make saves? Yes, but the goalies just don't look and move the way they should with this being the 7th edition on 360. It's just been hard for me to believe that this problem hasn't been touched in the 7 years of this game. They've upgraded animations of goalies but that's basically it.

I dunno I don't think the "warp" as you put it is near as bad as some of the earlier iterations this gen. Goalies actually look like they at the very least push off now. I doubt it's going to be everything those that play the position are going to want, I'll give you that any day of the week and twice on Sunday. It just gets old when the same user or two has nothing but negative after negative to post when they haven't played the game yet.

[jyoung]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

Another goalie video from EA:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NROzMpdr-OU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The goalies' lateral quickness looks way too fast to me.

[bwiggy33]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

I dunno I don't think the "warp" as you put it is near as bad as some of the earlier iterations this gen. Goalies actually look like they at the very least push off now. I doubt it's going to be everything those that play the position are going to want, I'll give you that any day of the week and twice on Sunday. It just gets old when the same user or two has nothing but negative after negative to post when they haven't played the game yet.

The push they use looks great, but it's the movement and momentum that follows it that screws it over. It's almost like they float across the crease and then warp into a save. They are just way too quick and unnatural looking.

The reason I'm being negative about this is because it's straight up a major flaw to the game in my eyes. It always has been for me, obviously it doesn't bother too many others. I'm just saying what's on my mind and I can honestly say there is not much of a difference to the way goalies move from 07 to 12 (and what appears to be 13). Hell that video just showed how bad it is. Then EA hypes it up like it looks great. To me it just doesn't look good at all. As long as goalies don't flop and miraculously dive across the crease to make saves everytime I'll be ok. Ultimately I just want to see the goalies play the position the way it should be played, because I'm very sure not much else about them has changed.

[RealmK]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

The push they use looks great, but it's the movement and momentum that follows it that screws it over. It's almost like they float across the crease and then warp into a save. They are just way too quick and unnatural looking.

The reason I'm being negative about this is because it's straight up a major flaw to the game in my eyes. It always has been for me, obviously it doesn't bother too many others. I'm just saying what's on my mind and I can honestly say there is not much of a difference to the way goalies move from 07 to 12 (and what appears to be 13). Hell that video just showed how bad it is. Then EA hypes it up like it looks great. To me it just doesn't look good at all. As long as goalies don't flop and miraculously dive across the crease to make saves everytime I'll be ok. Ultimately I just want to see the goalies play the position the way it should be played, because I'm very sure not much else about them has changed.

I can understand that. I still want to see how it plays 5 on 5 before I decide if it's been improved at all, or really just added animations with the same ol same ol. To be honest that's really my approach with everything regarding the game this year. "Sure that sounds good EA but I want to play it and decide if you get 60 from me next year or not"

Aside from gripes with the AI and presentation the last couple years though 12 had a few small improvements to the latter, imo they're at a point with me where the game and systems running the areas that I care about, mainly offline gameplay, presentation, and GM dealings, need to see a major improvement this year.

I do think the complaints about tenders not being/moving as realistic as they should be are very valid, I guess for me they're serviceable enough currently that it doesn't bother me quite as much as it might someone else.

[gamerk2]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

Another goalie video from EA:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NROzMpdr-OU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The goalies' lateral quickness looks way too fast to me.

Looks about right to me.

[BLA244]

Re: NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

This game looks promising