Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

[codyj123_321]

I think APF2K8 had the right idea, as i have seen so do a few people on here. The problem with the ratings is what is really the difference between 99 THP and 93 THP? I can't seen one and the same goes for throwing accuracy. The ratings also don't really make elite players seem different from just average players. Madden 12 for example, I won a super bowl with LEVI BROWN in a first year chise btw. I played on All-star(I believe that's the one just before all-madden?) and finished 2nd in MVP race. What i'm getting at with that little story is that I shouldn't be able to carve up D's and put up MVP numbers with a 70 OVR QB. I think just having abilities like Cannon Arm, Laser Arm, Glue Hands, etc. instead of ratings would result in more accurate play styles of players. It's just my opinion and i would love to hear some of you all to elaborate on this further.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

Reason why I think ratings should be hidden and only 40 times, bench etc are shown. Like I posted in the other thread... Let us use practice, combine and games to judge where people are and have an area we can input those numbers that follow that player so if we rate someone and dont sign them.. If later he comes up again via FA or trade offer we can see where we rated them before. Of course only we could see what we rated them and not other owners.
IMO that would add lot more feelings of ownership and coaiching/scouting. Not to mention maybe rating someone less that what they are and not taking them then whatching them have a pro bowl year on another team. Oops..
That gets us closer to te real deal IMO.
We finally have where performance affects overall thank goodness and that is a step in the right direction.

[codyj123_321]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

Reason why I think ratings should be hidden and only 40 times, bench etc are shown. Like I posted in the other thread... Let us use practice, combine and games to judge where people are and have an area we can input those numbers that follow that player so if we rate someone and dont sign them.. If later he comes up again via FA or trade offer we can see where we rated them before. Of course only we could see what we rated them and not other owners.
IMO that would add lot more feelings of ownership and coaiching/scouting. Not to mention maybe rating someone less that what they are and not taking them then whatching them have a pro bowl year on another team. Oops..
That gets us closer to te real deal IMO.
We finally have where performance affects overall thank goodness and that is a step in the right direction.

I like what your saying. Especially about them having a pro bowl season cause that's another reason where rating fail cause you can't have any breakout years cause of what there rating limits them too. I can't recall ever seeing a QB rated lets say a 72 and then just play a monster season and then jump up into the elite ranks like up to an 89 or 90. It would kinda be like the NCAA gem feature but better. If that makes any sense..

[StrawHat Patriot]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

I really like abilities too.

[cuttingteeth]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

I think the problem will become that it would then cost Donny Moore and others on the ratings team their jobs. This is why I proposed letting Donny and crew instead focus all their efforts on building and controlling a teambuilder styled site for everyone to generate their rosters from - ratings, editing in full, etc.

This would keep jobs intact, as no matter how frustrated I can get at game features in or out, I won't call for someone to lose their job. I just want their job focused better and done more to what makes better sense for their time, resources and per the goals of fan enjoyment. The website I have in mind would do just that.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

I always liked the idea, but it's just not the way EA wants to do things. I remember this subject came up a few years ago, and the way it was explained - by Ian if I remember correctly - was that no matter if you have abilities or not, there is still a number representing everything a player does. APF had ratings behind all of those abilities, they were just hidden from my understanding. So, all you're doing is hiding that number from the user, but the CPU/AI would always have it when it evaluated things.

So, it's not really changing the way the game functions, it's just handicapping the user.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

I think the problem will become that it would then cost Donny Moore and others on the ratings team their jobs. This is why I proposed letting Donny and crew instead focus all their efforts on building and controlling a teambuilder styled site for everyone to generate their rosters from - ratings, editing in full, etc.

This would keep jobs intact, as no matter how frustrated I can get at game features in or out, I won't call for someone to lose their job. I just want their job focused better and done more to what makes better sense for their time, resources and per the goals of fan enjoyment. The website I have in mind would do just that.

Actually having the ratings hidden and letting us detemine what we "think" they are has no bearing on Moore etc... Someone would still need to program in the ratings.

[cuttingteeth]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

Actually having the ratings hidden and letting us detemine what we "think" they are has no bearing on Moore etc... Someone would still need to program in the ratings.

In my vision, they would generate a base-roster-template like always and leave it at that within the website. We would pick up from there and do whatever else to our hearts' content (within reason, of course, as they would have to mod and control some things). The bulk of their work would indeed be modding and controlling the bugs/glitches/BS of the site like is the norm.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

I'm all for abilities and animations tied to those different abilities to give the game some personalty and life. If they are there I'd rather they be hidden. It's so hard to just give players numbers.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

Actually having the ratings hidden and letting us detemine what we "think" they are has no bearing on Moore etc... Someone would still need to program in the ratings.

The main reason I am such an advocate for hidden ratings is that it takes public opinion and influence out of the equation. My #1 defense of Donny Moore is that he worked on HC09 with Looman and I presume he did those ratings as well. However, the lack of circus fanfare surrounding that game likely allowed him to do what he thought was the most realistic job, not the most popular. The worst thing about Madden is that to EA/Tiburon and some gamers in general it is its' own brand of football and the NFL branding is simply a general baseline for notoriety, not a blueprint for how to make the game.

[osubucksfan47]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

You shouldn't be able to tell if your draft picks are gems or busts until they've played a season or two. And certain players perform better with different roles in different systems. Things like that are why ratings bother me unless they became really dynamic.

[codyj123_321]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

You shouldn't be able to tell if your draft picks are gems or busts until they've played a season or two. And certain players perform better with different roles in different systems. Things like that are why ratings bother me unless they became really dynamic.

I agree, but i'm suggesting something like let's say a rookie goes undrafted and his THP & THA are like a 80 and 76 but he is a gem and his true stats are actually like a 93 & 87 but you can only earn there true numbers by playing with them. Then you would add more depth to drafting and could have your guys who end up being the next Tom Brady(nobody expected Brady to be an all time great, but once he got his shot he never looked back) it may be a little complicated to put in a game and really make it work but if somehow they did that'd make CC/franchise whatever you wanna call it a 1000x times better.

If you all understand the idea i'm trying to get across.

[batyuki]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

Reason why I think ratings should be hidden and only 40 times, bench etc are shown. Like I posted in the other thread... Let us use practice, combine and games to judge where people are and have an area we can input those numbers that follow that player so if we rate someone and dont sign them.. If later he comes up again via FA or trade offer we can see where we rated them before. Of course only we could see what we rated them and not other owners.
IMO that would add lot more feelings of ownership and coaiching/scouting. Not to mention maybe rating someone less that what they are and not taking them then whatching them have a pro bowl year on another team. Oops..
That gets us closer to te real deal IMO.
We finally have where performance affects overall thank goodness and that is a step in the right direction.

I've posted a similar idea a while ago on the GameChangers site a while ago but it didn't get any attention :

Madden NFL » Idea for a more realistic Franchise mode


I think a very cool way to make Franchise more realistic would be to conceal players ratings from the gamer. Please read it all and give me your opinions on this.
First let me explain how I came up with that : on a franchise I was playing in Madden 12, I noticed at some point in the season that the current sack leader was a guy I didn't know. I looked him up and it turned out he was a rookie DE for the Giants filling in for an out-for-season Justin Tuck. The guy finished the season with 22 sacks (0.5 sack away from Strahan's NFL record !) In real life, a rookie recording 22 sacks on a season would promoted to starter, or traded even if that seems less likely. But not that guy. Why ? He was 68 overall, D potential. So the next season, the guy was back to being a backup with no interest from anyone to make him a starter. What would have happened in real life : Tuck is traded away, the rookie becomes the full time starter, the Giants are up for disappointment as the guy probably turns out to be a one year wonder. Real life players don't have numbers reflecting their skills displayed on their foreheads, virtual players shouldn't either!

1) You would have the option to play your franchise with ratings displayed or hidden, because some people will certainly prefer the current rating system.

2) You would obviously know the players ratings at the beginning of the franchise since they would be the same as in other game modes, but you would never have progressions or rookies ratings displayed

3) You would have your position coaches give you reports on your players to bring up things they believe the player has improved lately (or if he thinks the player has lost a step)

4) Add scouts that will give you a weekly report on your incomming opponent : strengths / weaknesses, the players to watch, the opponent's gameplan tendencies, etc. Basically everything you need to know to make up your own gameplan. They would also give you reports about the hot players in the league

5) For free agents and incomming rookies, bring back some of the features I recall from Madden 07 on PS2 : the workouts and the senior bowl. You would get to see how a player actually behaves on the field by playing him instead of just looking at numbers before making a decision on wether to sign / draft him

6) The rookies scouting should be more realistic : you have a determined amount of scouts that you send all over the country to attend college games and give you reports on interesting players they saw, their strenghs, etc. All scouts wouldn't necessarily have the same perception of a player

7) Bring in mock drafts

I think this all would make for an interesting and realistic franchise mode. Preseason and practices would actually matter since you would have to make your roster and depth chart decisions based on your feel of the player in game rather than by the look of his ratings. This would also make trades more interesting since you would only have reports and stats to evaluate a potential trade target.
Also all reports about all players should be based on the player's performances and never on the hidden ratings progressions.
That's pretty much it, thanks if you had the courage to read it all and to give me your opinion !

I'm not a die-hard OSer so I don't know if that's an idea that has already been thrown around here but I just came up with that, if you want to look it up

[1D4ever]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

Actually having the ratings hidden and letting us detemine what we "think" they are has no bearing on Moore etc... Someone would still need to program in the ratings.

Exactly All that would mean is they would just hide it from us the user that is all that would happen. We should have options on this but, Aparntly they are moving away from giving users options.

[rooney8]

Re: Instead of ratings why not just abilities..

I think some people don't understand that you can't get rid of ratings. Every game is pretty much driven by numbers and calculations. You can choose not to show the numbers to the user and just show abilities or grades based on the numbers but they still have to be there. When you truck stick with Brandon Jacobs the game uses his trucking, break tackle, weight etc in an algorithm with the defenders tackling and weight etc to decide what animation will occur. The numbers are essential showing them is not.

This was discussed in detail in the thread in my sig. Cummings and Looman then talked about it in a podcast and said hiding the ratings would take 2 minutes to put in the game but they don't think that's what we really want. Looman sounded like he liked the idea but only with some things to replace it like scouting and coaches opinions if I remember correctly.