The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

[Broncos86]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

Line play addressed but no physics = band aid.

Physics integrated with line play in the pipe = long term solution that benefits every faucet of the game.

I'll take #2.

[StrawHat Patriot]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

Line play addressed but no physics = band aid.

Physics integrated with line play in the pipe = long term solution that benefits every faucet of the game.

I'll take #2.

true. But I think Big FN Deal mentioned that if they had addressed Line play and Running Animations, while simply addressing tackling with better animations, than I think people would've been happier than they are now with just the Infinity Engine, which I've been hearing doesn't affect gameplay that much from what I've heard recently.

[Broncos86]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

true. But I think Big FN Deal mentioned that if they had addressed Line play and Running Animations, while simply addressing tackling with better animations, than I think people would've been happier than they are now with just the Infinity Engine, which I've been hearing doesn't affect gameplay that much from what I've heard recently.

Yeah, I understand that. And though I may get flogged, I like the foundation that Infinity lays down. And I feel good knowing that the underlying tech is going to be something that will be more durable and robust. I'd prefer the effort go towards that than giving us a one-year band-aid. But that's just me.

[roadman]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

Lot's of if's and many we won't know.

[LBzrule]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

Line play addressed but no physics = band aid.

Physics integrated with line play in the pipe = long term solution that benefits every faucet of the game.

I'll take #2.

I don't think that's true. I think they could just as easily write the line logic with physics in mind. It is not a band aid to do it that way. I haven't seen anything that would suggest a developer needs physics to get adequate line play progressions in place. They do need a great catalog of animations. With the way EA is deploying physics in Madden it is not governing movement yet, if it ever will. Look at the way physics was incorporated this year. Are you saying that they couldn't do read and react defense and all the other things they did this year responsibly without physics? I would disagree with that completely. NCAA and Madden both have 430 + new catching animations. The only difference is one game will use physics calculations to manipulate and control the animations whereas the other one will not. It's still 430 + animations. There can be no more room for making exceptions for them. I don't see anything that suggests that line play logic and progressions cannot be written without physics. I'm not a programmer, but there are a lot of folks on this board who are and who are in the video game industry that I'm sure would say, no, you don't need the one before the other or else it is a band aid; especially with the way physics will be functioning in Madden at this early stage.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

Yeah, I understand that. And though I may get flogged, I like the foundation that Infinity lays down. And I feel good knowing that the underlying tech is going to be something that will be more durable and robust. I'd prefer the effort go towards that than giving us a one-year band-aid. But that's just me.

Hmmm, the impression I got from the interviews and discussions from the physics team was that the infinity engine was a layer on top of the existing animation engine. So to me, wouldn't it have made more sense to get the player interactions and logic for the line play right first? I guess from an implementation standpoint it doesn't really matter, since the IE is not preventing them from changing what's underneath it. It's just that it really lessens the effect that IE has because the player movement and interaction is so bad. Line play and movement shouldn't even need to be specifically marketed, it should just be implied as part of an NFL simulation. What can be marketed is the realistic experience these parts that come together can deliver.

There really isn't an excuse as to why the gameplay team couldn't address player movement and line play in M13 along with the incremental improvements they made. A doubled gameplay team implemented QB drop backs (for the umpteenth time), read and react (great, but a whole year ?) and passing trajectories? We all know they spent longer than 9 months working on a lot of this too which is what's really scary. Then they said they "tuned" (everyone's favorite mythical word) the running and line play - which was already proven was a complete load of bull because it's exactly the same.

Regardless - when you think what you have is already good and you live in your own little vacuum, you don't see why it's a fail to deliver half built, sub standard elements.

All of this can be fixed. Stop with these small, incremental changes that are not even done well to begin with and make a big jump. If the team can produce a game that really nails down the gameplay elements and the realism factor, most of us will forget about all of the hot garbage they've delivered the last 9 years. However, in order to make that jump, you need to be both capable and willing. Neither of which seem to be apparent.

[wheelman990]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

To me, the infinity got piled on top of all the issue's. While I agree that Madden should have been ready by now for a infinity engine...they weren't.

They have to get the major issue's fixed before they can really add anything new IMO. I would never add more, when what I had was broke...but that's me.

If someone thinks Madden is already a great playing game, then I can see why they were excited for the infinity engine over gameplay issues

[SageInfinite]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

All of this can be fixed. Stop with these small, incremental changes that are not even done well to begin with and make a big jump. If the team can produce a game that really nails down the gameplay elements and the realism factor, most of us will forget about all of the hot garbage they've delivered the last 9 years. However, in order to make that jump, you need to be both capable and willing. Neither of which seem to be apparent.

Sad part is they said this was the biggest jump and Madden was going BIG for 13

Seriously though with connected careers, the new commentary, and the IE and other upgrades, they did put in work this year. It's just it seems like once again, nothing seems fully fleshed out or complete. I have to wait to play the game, but once again, I'm feeling like the game will lack that polish.

[poster]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

I'm indifferent on these previews, and only because I'd like to know where were the criticisms years ago? It seems these outlets are finally paying attention to the fanbase, and they're just copying & pasting the complaints found in various forums.

It's the same way I feel about Pastapadre. He was never very critical or scathing in his assesments when it came to Madden & NCAA when these games flat out stunk. His previews/reviews always reeked of, 'Well this & that bug me, but I'm having a lot of fun with Madden 07-08-09'. Now he's become the Nino Brown of sports videogame coverage, and wants to criticize the games when they're actually (and finally) on the uptick.

That said, I'm glad the mainstream outlets are getting more in-depth in their previews & reviews; after all, that's how sports games will continue to innovate and improve. But it just seems to me a lot of the videogame media are attempting to be critical now to make up for the times in which they unjustafiably gave Madden/NCAA a passing grade.

I don't care much for any of the previews/reviews I read anywhere, as they are always bare bones and never fleshed out enough for me. A sports game review should have pages on gameplay and career modes, not paragraphs. My point was that these issues being published by mainstream media outlets is good, as hopefully it pushed the devs to fix these issues. Perhaps it won't do anything, but to me, it is better then it not being mentioned.

I fully agree with your assessment that alot of the media that write about sports games are flip floppers, for whatever reason.

See, I have a different opinion of your first paragraph.

Even the article quoted noted the same thing I have with NCAA.

The passing game is a big upgrade over past iterations of Madden and NCAA. It's a thing of beauty. The passing game feels very different from the past.

That has kept me playing NCAA.

Glad you are enjoying it road. Not a big ncaa fan in general, as I age, and I always see that title as even more half baked then Madden is. I have a football fix that is needed, but that game does not do enough to pull me in. I just hope Madden will do so this year.

The gif that Sage posted with that nice looking tackle is what I am looking for. That makes this game feel new and fresh. How often will that occur though? That is my concern. I don't need over the top action with the Infinity Engine, just more realistic looking and feeling outcomes when I play.

The other issues won't go away, but I need something gameplay wise to reel me in. That's my big concern with the physics. The passing seems like a nice addition, although I question 25 different trajectories and 430 catch animations. How many in each area are seen over and over again when playing these games, or is this a legitimate area that brings new and exciting things every game you play. If the latter, then that makes me happy.

Can't wait for this damn demo and early release. I hope I am wrong, and that the game surprises me.

[jfsolo]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

Given that EA, unlike OS peeps, still concerns itself with casual gamers, reviews/metacritc scores, they made the right call to focus on the Infinity Engine first. Everyone who plays cares about passing, catching and tackling. Only the hardcore really care about OL/DL interaction.

I went back and read ten reviews of NFL 2K5, that gave the game a "B+" or higher, out of those ten reviews, there was one line about OL/DL interaction, one line. It said that the animations for the lines were cool.

Now that doesn't mean that those reviewers didn't notice the line play or think that it was great, but they didn't feel that it warranted a mention in their review.

That also, of course doesn't mean that EA shouldn't overhaul their OL/DL stuff, because obviously they absolutely should, but it was a logical and reasonable call for them to place other aspects of the gameplay as a higher priority target for getting renovated first.

Even with this new team being focused on authenticity and no gimmicks, they're not going to ignore the marketability of their improvements. Now I'm sure that they're clever enough to find a way to market the "battle in the trenches", but I not sure that it's something that they would want to hang their hat on.

[CRMosier_LM]

Maybe, idk. Line play was a top priority for me. I gets so old watching players online use the 1 5 5 shake or setting up ridiculous nanos to get pressure because a normal 4 man rush isn't effective. Dealing with these tactics really takes what little football strategy Madden has right out of the game, imo. I have no desire to deal with that another year.

Line play was one of my top priorities as well. But for this year I'm good with physics as long as physics stage 2 AND line interaction is addressed for next year (if next year is next gen then I think it certainly will be). As far as 4 man rush being effective consistently I hope it never is without some sort of trickery/setup. No way if I'm blocking 5-6 should 4 cause too much pressure without some setup or confusion inducing moves (ie fake blitz with a safety or lb in the gap). Should it get pressure sometimes, yeah. But consistently no.



Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[N51_rob]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

Line play was one of my top priorities as well. But for this year I'm good with physics as long as physics stage 2 AND line interaction is addressed for next year (if next year is next gen then I think it certainly will be). As far as 4 man rush being effective consistently I hope it never is without some sort of trickery/setup. No way if I'm blocking 5-6 should 4 cause too much pressure without some setup or confusion inducing moves (ie fake blitz with a safety or lb in the gap). Should it get pressure sometimes, yeah. But consistently no.





Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

You posted something similar earlier. This bold isn't true. The New York Giants Dline can beat 5 and 6 man protection consistently. Baltimore can get pressure with just 4, and usually its Suggs and Nata. The Eagles can get home with just 4 rushers more often than not.

Elite DE > RB

Elite DE > TE

Most OTs are 1 on 1

There is usually a combo block on the interior OL.

Even if the don't get sacks. Elite edge rushers are a nuisance 60% of the time I would guess.

[slick589]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

Given that EA, unlike OS peeps, still concerns itself with casual gamers, reviews/metacritc scores, they made the right call to focus on the Infinity Engine first. Everyone who plays cares about passing, catching and tackling. Only the hardcore really care about OL/DL interaction.

I went back and read ten reviews of NFL 2K5, that gave the game a "B+" or higher, out of those ten reviews, there was one line about OL/DL interaction, one line. It said that the animations for the lines were cool.

Now that doesn't mean that those reviewers didn't notice the line play or think that it was great, but they didn't feel that it warranted a mention in their review.

That also, of course doesn't mean that EA shouldn't overhaul their OL/DL stuff, because obviously they absolutely should, but it was a logical and reasonable call for them to place other aspects of the gameplay as a higher priority target for getting renovated first.

Even with this new team being focused on authenticity and no gimmicks, they're not going to ignore the marketability of their improvements. Now I'm sure that they're clever enough to find a way to market the "battle in the trenches", but I not sure that it's something that they would want to hang their hat on.

So when the center and both guards get pancaked by dts and same animation plays out for both at the same time, and its an instant sack it doesnt affect the casual gamer?

When d ends play patty cake with tackles instead of rushing upfield and trying to get to the qb it doesnt affect casual gamers?

I just dont see it that way. My girlfriend is less than a casual gamer and when she sees these things she tells me how weird or unrealistic they are....granted she knows a lot more about football than some guys i know haha

[Big FN Deal]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

I just did an OS search and all I could do is shake my head about how history seems to be repeating itself but I will leave that alone until M13 drops.

What I did want to bring up is this old blog from the M11 Lead Gameplay Designer about locomotion. Can other people please read this and help me understand why something new is even needed to fix/adjust/tune player movement.

http://www.operationsports.com/ncaa/...11-locomotion/

[m1ke_nyc]

Re: The more videos I watch, the less I seem to see the impact of the Infinity engine

I just did an OS search and all I could do is shake my head about how history seems to be repeating itself but I will leave that alone until M13 drops.

What I did want to bring up is this old blog from the M11 Lead Gameplay Designer about locomotion. Can other people please read this and help me understand why something new is even needed to fix/adjust/tune player movement.

http://www.operationsports.com/ncaa/...11-locomotion/

It did the exact opposite of what was stated in that write up. Players cut on a dime with no momentum shifting or loss of speed. Yea you have the full control of making the player go wherever you want on the field but it doesn't come with a penalty. But this is something I think will be addressed for Madden 14. I feel this new dev team is committed to getting this game where it needs to be.