OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

[raguel]

Re: OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

No one else has noticed how flaky man coverage gets when the cpu calls no huddle?

[StrawHat Patriot]

Re: OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

But Madden is also a "good" game by the majority of subjective standards.

Even OS' more discerning critical opinion hasn't scored a console release Madden game lower than a 7.5 out of 10, and it's metacritic ratings have consistently fallen right around the 80 range. Me personally, I've found each Madden significantly better than the previous one, with admission that any next-gen Madden games before Madden 09 weren't really worth playing.

But to the point, Madden hasn't exactly reinvented itself either. Simulation sports games can't really, they are consistently bound by the rules and laws of the sport they are attempting to simulate.

The whole Madden is the same thing seemed to be with Madden NFL 06-08 because they were all bad, and then it lingered because either people gave up and now don't know what they are talking about or they simply are tired of the same old legacy issues.

To the Bold: There are ways to reinvent the games of the Madden series. For example, take advantage of the buttons we have on current consoles. 2K's shot stick could be an example. If EA implementing the Vision Cone was an example of reinventing the game (but they didn't even try to improve it or make sure it was usable). I remember how one guy said they should use the right stick as a way to aim then pull the RT/pull R2 to throw. That's an example of reinventing.

[SFNiner]

Re: OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

Aww man you can't cut Brooksy. He was one that I hated to see the Bengals get rid of. I knew he was going to turn into a contributor. Not a pro bowler by any stretch but man I loved watching him thump. But I hear you on that. I just recently, couple years ago, stopped putting myself in my franchise or else I would probably be right there with you.

Actually wasnt going to cut him this time. Was gonna keep him as a backup/ST player. Just for depth. But still....Kinda suck not being able to do that now.

[Hooe]

Re: OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

The whole Madden is the same thing seemed to be with Madden NFL 06-08 because they were all bad, and then it lingered because either people gave up and now don't know what they are talking about or they simply are tired of the same old legacy issues.

To the Bold: There are ways to reinvent the games of the Madden series. For example, take advantage of the buttons we have on current consoles. 2K's shot stick could be an example. If EA implementing the Vision Cone was an example of reinventing the game (but they didn't even try to improve it or make sure it was usable). I remember how one guy said they should use the right stick as a way to aim then pull the RT/pull R2 to throw. That's an example of reinventing.

Putting passing on the right stick and ditching icon passing would be reinventing the game, yes.

The vision cone, however, didn't reinvent how one played the game; it was a redundant command that forced me to confirm something my brain had already processed, that being that I the user see a guy open. I shouldn't have to confirm that he's open and that I'd like to throw to him to throw him the ball. That half second is the difference between a sack and a first down.

If pre-snap reads and identifying a hot / primary receiver based on information gathered before the snap were more important in Madden, then I could see some form of the cone coming back and being a good gameplay mechanic, but there aren't enough ways to gather a tell from a coverage pre-snap, there aren't defensive tendencies that we can scout from how the AI plays with which to gather these tells, and there aren't enough options for the defensive playcaller - user or AI - to disguise his coverage.

I think that, to the end of limiting the effectiveness of the passing game, the dimming receiver icons is a much better mechanic, as it passively interferes with the user's ability to succeed at passing, rather than actively as the cone did.

All my opinion, of course.

[JBH3]

I think the presentation of Naantz/Simms was great, but call me crazy if the gameplay just felt like typical/normal Madden from yesteryear.... No?

I played as San Fran on default All-Pro.

[roadman]

Re: OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

I think the presentation of Naantz/Simms was great, but call me crazy if the gameplay just felt like typical/normal Madden from yesteryear.... No?

I played as San Fran on default All-Pro.

Not sure how it could have. New pass trajectories, new catching animations, infinity engine and read n react defense.

[swac07]

Re: OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

I totally agree with the article...great write up

[Eski33]

The demo is fun and the visuals, especially the fields compared to NCAA, look great.

The game feels familiar but so does every other title on the market. I withhold my trie judgment until I can play the full release next Friday.

[ODogg]

Re: OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

The Camera view during the extra point is comic. Welcome back to the 90's!!!! It is such an arcade style look with lack of depth perspective or realism.Poor, very poor....

Actually it's a very realistic looking camera angle in regards to what is shown on TV. I wish they'd adopt this for NCAA, looks awesome IMO

[btemp]

Re: OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

I think the presentation of Naantz/Simms was great, but call me crazy if the gameplay just felt like typical/normal Madden from yesteryear.... No?

I played as San Fran on default All-Pro.

+1.

Not sure how it could have. New pass trajectories, new catching animations, infinity engine and read n react defense.

These are largely cosmetic. Pass trajectories get rid of the occasional knockdown by an LB, catching animations have very little effect on the game, IMO the infinity engine at this point changes very little how the game is played, and "read and react defence" (hilarious marketing) not only makes passing easier but is again, like everything else, a TWEAK.

[Goodydog]

1st, I will state that I am an avid 2K Football fan. That being said, I would give the Madden demo a C; however, at this stage of football videogaming, a C = subpar.
Those individuals who don't understand the phrase "it's the same old Madden" need to realize that...
gamers don't want the game of football to change, they want EA to eliminate all of the mistakes that have plagued the Madden franchise for years (example: all versions of Madden are offense heavy; they are also pass heavy). EA has ignored other facets and intricacies of the game of football and focused on a few minor aspects (that people like to exploit) then they slap lipstick on it and sell it to the masses. If there are other aspects of the game of football that you like that aren't included in the Madden Team's focus (line play or the running game), you have probably felt neglected (insert 2K fans here). This is the reason why the debate has continued between 2K players and Madden players.

And for the individual who asserted that if you are not a Madden fan then you are not a football fan, dude, you are a joke. I will always break it down like this...EVERY 2K fan was a Madden fan at one time...that's why we tend to have a little more credibility than most Madden fans. The red pill tastes better.

[roadman]

Re: OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

+1.



These are largely cosmetic. Pass trajectories get rid of the occasional knockdown by an LB, catching animations have very little effect on the game, IMO the infinity engine at this point changes very little how the game is played, and "read and react defence" (hilarious marketing) not only makes passing easier but is again, like everything else, a TWEAK.

No problem, just a difference of opinion.

[Bgamer90]

Re: OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

These are largely cosmetic. Pass trajectories get rid of the occasional knockdown by an LB, catching animations have very little effect on the game, IMO the infinity engine at this point changes very little how the game is played, and "read and react defence" (hilarious marketing) not only makes passing easier but is again, like everything else, a TWEAK.

What wouldn't be cosmetic then? Some of the features you mentioned address "legacy issues". If addressing legacy issues is just cosmetic, why were so many asking for it on these forums?

[roadman]

Re: OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

What wouldn't be cosmetic then? Some of the features you mentioned address "legacy issues". If addressing legacy issues is just cosmetic, why were so many asking for it on these forums?

I think I can answer that.

Some people were looking for a different priority of legacy issues to be dealt with from EA.

For example, some people wanted OL/DL overhauled, momentum, plant footing worked on before pass trajectories, read and react, leaping LB's and CB's, etc.....

At the end of the day, EA makes the decision, we can only make suggestions.

[btemp]

Re: OS Roundtable: Madden NFL 13 Demo Impressions

No problem, just a difference of opinion.

Nice to have a discussion, recognize we don't agree, and have it all be polite and civil. Thank you.

What wouldn't be cosmetic then? Some of the features you mentioned address "legacy issues". If addressing legacy issues is just cosmetic, why were so many asking for it on these forums?

If you're interested I can go into greater detail, but ultimately I think the biggest "legacy" issues (think of these as umbrella issues with sub-issues below) are (a) repetitive, uninteresting defence and (b) broken offensive line and defensive line play. Personally, I'd add a (c) lack of development of franchise there as well, but we won't know if major steps have been taken until we play CC. [I also just want to note these are off the top of my head, there are probably better "umbrella words" to capture these]

So some of the fixes you've brought up would be sub-issues (or sub-sub-issues) of these major problems. Again, if requested I can go into much greater detail.

And at the end of the day I found Madden boring. That's of course entirely subjective, but I personally attribute it to these improvements being "tweaks" leaving the underlying, fundamental flaws in the game untouched. Or perhaps just a lack of innovation. This is almost exactly the same Madden I've been playing since 05 [IMO]