Breaking Down Madden: The Run Game

[datruth]

Very good write up. I think one of the things that needs to be brought back to defense (this seems to have been taken out at the beginning of the current generation of Madden/NCAA titles) is the sensitivity of the left analog stick. Now when I say sensitivity, I don't mean the current twitch movement that we have in game. What I'm specifically speaking about is the degrees of movement in relation to the pressure you put on the left stick and the movement of the player.

In order to play effective defense or should I say (defense that plays out correctly and retains the immersion/visuals making you feel like you're on the field) you have to have the ability to move laterally with precision. Compare the PS2 versions of Madden with current generation. Before the play, select a safety. Gently nudge the left analog stick down and you'll notice your player will actually WALK. Now place a bit more pressure and he'll start to jog. Full pressure will give you a sprint. That precision control has been totally removed from current gen Madden. There is a semblance of it still in place, but its not like it should be.

This is where all the complaints of player movement originated. Until the players are anchored back to the field as they should be, (they're taking baby steps, as you see the LBs can't jump up like they're feathery light anymore) no amount of animations added to the library is going to smooth this out. The players are too robotic at the moment, they had more "life" last generation and you could actually feel the weight. Don't get me wrong, I most definitely agree with adding more animations but the base player movement MUST be returned to its former glory before it all will make sense.

So true. I've been saying this for years. You got it spot on.

[datruth]

Does seem a little strange.

BC there is absolutely no change in Madden 13

[Cpterp22]

Re: Breaking Down Madden: The Run Game

Great read, but we already know the change wasn't coming til 14..


I have the retail.. Blocking is a little better with IE.. 14 will be where we really see it ( I hope )

[datruth]

Great article on the lack of run blocking in Madden. That was a very good read.

I now understand why 90% of running plays end with a tackle for a loss or no gain.

A lot of the complaints about the run blocking can be masked by tuning the sliders but I primarily play online or head to head on All Madden level with my friends. Sliders won't help me.

I would like to see defensive linemen attempt arm tackles. You see it all the time where a DT is engaged in a block and when he sees the RB headed for his gap the DT reaches out to grab the RB with one arm.

With the way defenders flow to the ball, gang tackling has made a big improvement over the years.

Stop the 190lb defensive backs laying the smack down on 240lb running backs. Another issue I see constantly is extremely agile RB's tackled in the open field in a one on one situation. I believe all ball carriers should be better at breaking tackles in Madden because even after you break one tackle there are usually 2 or more defenders near enough to take you down. I kind of miss ProTak where you could break a tackle after being wrapped up by the defender.

Every since they moved the stiff arm from the shoulder buttons to the one face button the user stiff arms are EXTREMLY ineffective. I blame this on the lack of canned animations available to portray a successful broken tackle when two players meet. RB with a high stiff arm rating are no more effective then any other ball carrier. The one button stiff arm change is one of, if not the worst changes made since Madden came to the current gen.

The running game needs a lot of work. The only way to move the ball is through the air and that's not Football.

Thanks again.

[cuttingteeth]

Re: Breaking Down Madden: The Run Game

The running game will never work properly until there is actual physics that take weight, speed, strength, leverage, momentum and ratings into the equation.

This is what I think needs to happen, too, and with the random size changing of RB's currently seen in the retail video, it scares me that it would compromise the game even more by boosting/lowering/boosting/lowering their ratings per play, per their size. It's odd.

[shavane]

If they are able to actually fix the OL/DL interaction we could have the makings of a phenomenal game.

Until they decide to change it one thing that will always hold the Madden franchise back is the running animations. Its well documented and been beat to death that the running looks funky and robotic. There is no variation between a DB or a O lineman, and there is still that ever so slight feeling of running on skates.

I agree 2k was about a perfect game for that time but we all need to stop acting like it was without flaws because there was. It just pisses us off that a current gen Madden should be far ahead of where we are today.

I will say it till I'm blue in the face...it may be too little too, late for some but I hope everyone realizes this is a new Dev team and they actually have made improvements to this game so it doesn't feel like the normal roster update we are so used to so I will remain patient with them. If they stick to the schedule, fix OL/DL interaction and hopefully a more realistic running style for players I will be beyond happy.

[frankwyte81]

No offense, but why go through all this trouble breaking down the ´12 version instead of waiting a couple weeks and doing it for ´13 ?

Because the blocking is the same way in Madden 13, that's why he wrote this fantastic piece of work. Great write-up Andy....

[ghettogeeksta]

Re: Breaking Down Madden: The Run Game

I am pretty sure EA knows about all of this and they know it needs to be fixed. Heck, the blocking system has basically been the same since Madden 2001. Part of the reason it is not fixed yet is because of lack of competition. The Madden team has basically been taking a vacation ever since they bought the NFL license, allowing them to be able to afford to ignore the core problems with the game and use gimmicks/back of box material to continue to sell games.

Plus blocking is a fundamental part of the game, meaning if the decided to redo the blocking system it would have to be almost perfected, because if they added a new blocking system with as many glitches as the IE tackling system, Madden would be unplayable. So EA just has been lazy over the years and playing it safe, sticking with the old proven technology.

Hopefully with this new team in place will address the blocking soon, I don't know if it will be next year though, it just depends on how long they have been working on it, if they have been at all. I would imagine implementing IE with blocking would take a few years to nearly perfect with all the different algorithms. So we may not see new blocking til Madden 15 or next-gen.

But I fully expect them to address foot-planting by Madden 14, because it's a known issue and it's much safer than fixing the blocking system.

[btemp]

Re: Breaking Down Madden: The Run Game

Because the blocking is the same way in Madden 13, that's why he wrote this fantastic piece of work. Great write-up Andy....

Abso-friggin-lutely.

[liberaluser]

Re: Breaking Down Madden: The Run Game

If this new dev team delivers bigtime next year I will surely buy Madden as a day one purchase. But until then I can't suffer another mediocre entry.

When the old team gave up on ProTak is when I stopped buying. Yes, I know that was kinda gimmicky to begin with but the fact they wouldn't even improve upon it and the rest of the gameplay made me lose all hope for Madden this generation.

[chi_hawks]

Fantastic write up. Agree on all counts.

And to people wondering why he used 12' instead of 13', line interaction is the exact same in 13' (Dev's have already confirmed this).

[Feldman011teen]

I've got the retail version as well, and at higher difficulties, it doesn't matter, there could be two defensive lineman and they suction off their blocker on to your RB or QB. I guess they stated it's a passing league, so they hope you take advantage of that.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Breaking Down Madden: The Run Game

So, everything we have all been saying for years, except he used to make Back Breaker.

It wasn't a bad read, but it isn't like EA doesn't know this already. Heck, AJ and I talked about this at length two years ago, or when BezO, Ryan Moody, and Valderez talk about "engaged player movement," and EA already has a former NFL offensive lineman working for them.

This is why I don't think the guys in central game play are as talented as, say, the art team or Josh Looman and those who work on Franchise [CCM.]

APF2k8 and ESPN 2k5 had this already and was/is a major reason why those games are so much better on the field than Madden, even today.

Yes - but it's nice to see someone in the industry backing up what many of us have been saying for years. It's been said before, but the stuff that takes the real work is either kicked down the road or not done well at all. Gameplay in Madden is a decade behind old hardware. That's embarrassing and it was refreshing to see someone finally calling them on it who works in this space. Hopefully this type of analysis will lead to positive change.

[Only1LT]

Re: Breaking Down Madden: The Run Game

Very good read, but as PG said, this blog could have been written by me, or any number of other people on this forum. That isn't a knock against the author, and as taz says, it's nice to see validation from an industry professional, it just makes it that much more obvious how wrong the direction on this game has been, and more frustrating because I'm not sure when or if it will change.

Their philosophy on animations, in general, and their delusion that the user needs to be in control at all times, will continue to be one of the biggest impediments to getting a realistic game from this dev house ever. Seems even rival developers know this.

I'm sure Tiburon knows it too. Question is, will they muster the courage, and perhaps discover the humility, to change?

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Breaking Down Madden: The Run Game

So, everything we have all been saying for years, except he used to make Back Breaker.

It wasn't a bad read, but it isn't like EA doesn't know this already. Heck, AJ and I talked about this at length two years ago, or when BezO, Ryan Moody, and Valderez talk about "engaged player movement," and EA already has a former NFL offensive lineman working for them.

This is why I don't think the guys in central game play are as talented as, say, the art team or Josh Looman and those who work on Franchise [CCM.]

APF2k8 and ESPN 2k5 had this already and was/is a major reason why those games are so much better on the field than Madden, even today.

I honestly think people around here don't give your posts enough attention but you post some insightful ish, lol. I wonder how many posters or even EAGCs realize you have been down to Tiburon before, along with Bezo, LBz and others. To piggyback on PG, Taz and LT in this thread, this is the exact same things anyone bothering to do an OS search can see that knowledgeable posters, not speaking of myself because I don't know ish about programming, have been saying FOR YEARS!

I think it's great to have someone in the industry and that has worked on an actual next-gen football game give what others have said validity, that should be beyond reproach. I got so frustrated and relieved at the same time reading that write up because if this guy and a whole lot of other people can see what the core problems are, I am damn sure EA/Tiburon does too. Yet we still have been getting the Madden game play we have for going on 8 years, which is bad enough but could be due to FUBAR code or whatever What's worse, imo, is having random members in the community and even worse still, SOME EAGCs, acting as if people posting the things espoused in this write up, is asking for PERFECTION and/or try to marginalize others as EA hatemongers.

All that said, many of us knew full well or at least had some inkling of what Madden's ills are and the shortcuts it seems to utilize. However, we still buy it, therefore support these practices every year, so it is what it is.

Give'em hell Andy! lol

PS. Now I understand your PM Taz.:wink: