how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

[marginwalker12]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

If Emmitt Smith's offensive line was so great, how come none of them will be in the Hall of Fame? Larry Allen was only there for the 1995 Super Bowl. Nate Newton, Erik Williams, Mark Tuinei, Mark Stepnoski... which of these men smack as great? Stepnoski was replaced with Ray Donaldson and the team didn't miss a beat. Stepnoski proved to be a bust for the Oilers. Williams was great for one year, then he crashed Alvin Harper's car into a brick wall. That leaves Nate Newton and Mark Tuinei. Pro Bowl players, but you really can't argue great.

1993, the Cowboys started 0-2 without Emmitt Smith during his hold out. Losing to a Redskin team in the opener who didn't even threaten the playoffs.

Emmitt was a force to bring down. He just didn't get 5 yards up the middle every time. He bounced off tackles. Didn't have blinding speed, but in his prime no once could bring him down once he got past you. Emmitt had some downright sick runs in his prime. While Barry and Peyton's was more pretty to look at, Emmitt's had blue colar efficiency to them. Every highlight you see of him he's taking a hit and somehow keeps going, or just lands in the end zone. How many times did you see those Cowboys run slants for 50+ yards. 8 yard routes consistently to the house. That's because 8 or 9 defenders were in the box trying to stop Emmitt.

[tfctillidie]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

walls of text, none of which actually on the topic of how EA's legacy score actually adds up based on the criteria in the game, which says Superbowls, Championships and Yearly Awards. of which Emmitt has more than Payton.

LOL

Poor guy. Starts a thread to ask a Madden question and this happens.


For the love of god guys, this wasn't supposed to be a Emmitt vs Walter debate, it's about the Legacy Score in Madden.


Sorry I have no answer for you though, hopefully some people clue in that they are missing the point here.

[tfctillidie]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

You listed each ones (Legacy) accomplishments, I would assume they than took other things into account.
:wink:

Opinion certainly isn't measured in the video game. Statistically, Emmitt is superior.

So when we play the game, how do we get judged if this is how it's setup?

[Moegames]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

clearly superbowls and division titles have a baring cause its listed, yet some how Walter Payton has 700xp more than Emmitt, who not only had the same number of Yearly Awards but won 3 superbowls and 6 division championships, oh and has the most TDs and Yards all time 2nd to only Jerry Rice

how does 1 superbowl, 1 championship and 12 awards = 14k

yet 3 superbowls, 6 championships and 12 awards = 13k

Emmitt better overall than Payton? Keep dreaming... Stats don't mean everything, one day you will learn that, hopefully

[ggsimmonds]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

I think there are two different ways the game measures legacy scores.
There is a formula used for user players and current/future players but when it comes to the past legends I am sure EA makes "modifications" to the formula to get the proper rankings.

If two people were to create 2 new RBs and put up Smith's and Payton's exact same career numbers in CC player I am sure the player who put up Smith's legacy score would be higher.

[bucky60]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

Ranking RB's, Jim Brown and Walter Payton are at the very top.

There was no part of Payton's game that was average. He did everything very well. He ran with power and finesse, was a very good receiver out of the backfield and an excellent blocker. Plus he was a good emergency QB. He could actually throw the ball well.

You could probably add Gale Sayers just under these two. Only a 6 or 7 year career and still a HOF'er. Would have had much better career stats w/o the career ending injury. I'm not sure Emmit is in my top 5 for all time.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

Ranking RB's, Jim Brown and Walter Payton are at the very top.

There was no part of Payton's game that was average. He did everything very well. He ran with power and finesse, was a very good receiver out of the backfield and an excellent blocker. Plus he was a good emergency QB. He could actually throw the ball well.

You could probably add Gale Sayers just under these two. Only a 6 or 7 year career and still a HOF'er. Would have had much better career stats w/o the career ending injury. I'm not sure Emmit is in my top 5 for all time.

With respect, no cares where you have Emmit in your all time list of top RBs.
The issue is how legacy score is determined. And if it goes by stats (which is the only logical way such a score can be determined) Emmit should be above Payton.

[bucky60]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

With respect, no cares where you have Emmit in your all time list of top RBs.
The issue is how legacy score is determined. And if it goes by stats (which is the only logical way such a score can be determined) Emmit should be above Payton.

Stats isn't the only logical way it can be determined.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

Stats isn't the only logical way it can be determined.

I have to disagree.
Personally I think Walter was a better RB, but how do I make a formula or equation and use opinion as a variable?

Remember, I am not speaking of real life; I am only speaking of how the game calculates legacy score. In game limiting yourself to stats makes sense.

[woodjer]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

the 1993 season says differently

actually every season says differently, for the simple fact Aikman and Irvin's career numbers are far from great and nobody ever brings him up when they make lists.

Hmmm...Aikman and Irvin are both Hall of Famers and you're arguing that the team was carried by Emmitt? You're entitled to that opinion, I suppose, but I don't get your logic. Also, because the Cowboys had an effective passing attack, Emmitt could run. If you want to look at the 1993 season specifically...as a team the Cowboys were 2nd in rushing and 7th in passing. Further, Emmitt had 10 touchdowns and accounted for 1/3 of the offensive yards. Irvin had 7 touchdowns and accounted for 1/4 of the yards. If I cut Aikman's passing stats in half (for comparison purposes), he had 7.5 TDs and accounted for 30% of the yardage. From a numbers perspective, Emmitt was the best offensive player on the team...but, unless you're referring to literal carries (as in rushing attempts), it would seem to be a stretch to say that he carried that team. And that completely ignores the fact that they were 2nd in the NFL in points allowed that season.

If anything, all of that reflects that it really was a team effort. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for Emmitt and your original question is a valid one. However, like others have said, Emmitt had a LOT more to work with on his team than Payton and Barry did. The fact that most of those Cowboys teams could beat you through the air as well had a lot to do with how much space he had to run.

In the end, Emmitt, Barry, and Payton are easily 3 of the best RB ever. People will rank them all differently but I think it's difficult to say that any order is wrong. Back to your original question though...I would have to guess that EA has arbitrarily awarded those scores or Emmitt would be higher than Payton based just on those numbers.

[Jimi XIII]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

Opinion certainly isn't measured in the video game. Statistically, Emmitt is superior.

So when we play the game, how do we get judged if this is how it's setup?

Than why else would Payton be higher if Smith has better statistical accomplishments? Most likely because of opinion. Your stats will obviously only go by your actual accomplishments since AI & coding is solely involved instead of human input like the original list when it was being made.

[bucky60]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

I have to disagree.
Personally I think Walter was a better RB, but how do I make a formula or equation and use opinion as a variable?

Remember, I am not speaking of real life; I am only speaking of how the game calculates legacy score. In game limiting yourself to stats makes sense.

You can rate the players around them, and make some kind of production adjustment. You can also find some statistical formula using opportunities to adjust production numbers. There are ways other than career stats and team accomplishments.

[b2th3m1th]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

take Barry Sanders' only 10 years in the league,
and then take Emmitt Smith's 10 best in the league...


And Barry Wins every time. Sad though if the Lions management was competent Barry would have played longer and the record would have been his, cause he was only a 1,000 or so yards away from it in 10 years. Best RB ever Barry Sanders.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

You can rate the players around them, and make some kind of production adjustment. You can also find some statistical formula using opportunities to adjust production numbers. There are ways other than career stats and team accomplishments.

You really think Madden should go through all that trouble?
Besides, there are still problems with your examples
rating players around them: how to do this without using stats?
opportunities to adjust for production numbers = I'm somewhat confused as to what this entails, but it still sounds a lot like something that is stat based.

When I speak of stats I don't just mean yards rushed. I am speaking of every objective measurement that can be used. By that standard, I think Emmit should be higher than Walter.
In case you didn't read it (hate when my post is the last one on a page) here is my previous post:
I think there are two different ways the game measures legacy scores.
There is a formula used for user players and current/future players but when it comes to the past legends I am sure EA makes "modifications" to the formula to get the proper rankings.

If two people were to create 2 new RBs and put up Smith's and Payton's exact same career numbers in CC player I am sure the player who put up Smith's legacy score would be higher.

[bucky60]

Re: how is Emmitt behind Payton in "Legacy Score"

You really think Madden should go through all that trouble?

You seem to want strict statistical backing to determine Legacy scores, so yes, if you want the Legacy score to be accurate and actually mean something.

Besides, there are still problems with your examples
rating players around them: how to do this without using stats?

How is that a problem? It's time consuming, but how is that a problem? Doesn't offensive line have something to do with a RB's individual stats? Doesn't the amount of time a team is on Offense have something to do with a RB's stats? I would think you would also adjust Legacy score for a RB's blocking ability, and a RB's diversity. Not sure why it's a problem to make adjustments based on the talent around a player.

opportunities to adjust for production numbers = I'm somewhat confused as to what this entails, but it still sounds a lot like something that is stat based.

Years in the League. Gale Sayers vs Emmit Smith. Time of possession would have some impact in number of opportunities.

When I speak of stats I don't just mean yards rushed. I am speaking of every objective measurement that can be used. By that standard, I think Emmit should be higher than Walter.

And by any objective measurement, I don't think Smith is anywhere near Payton.

If two people were to create 2 new RBs and put up Smith's and Payton's exact same career numbers in CC player I am sure the player who put up Smith's legacy score would be higher.

Smith and Payton aren't virtual people bound by the limitations designed and built into the game. If we wanted Legacy Scores to be more accurate with virtual players, then they should change the criteria to match while ranking real people.