2k13 Playbooks

[vannwolfhawk]

I posted this in the main thread, but thought roster makers should be aware that the playbooks are again a disaster, messed up and inaccurate!



Well after spending the last few hours digging thru playbooks and testing a few out I am completely disappointed! I can't tell you how inaccurate some plays are as well as some that just have horrible action. Once again there is also a ton of plays that just take way to long to develop as well...

I guess if they don't talk about something its because they did nothing to it?! Painting over a used car does not make it a new car. Meaning switching the names of plays does not change the fact the play sucks, the team doesn't run it in real life or it just flat out does not work! Some names have stayed the same. Very few of them, but there is a few like Jet Over which is still in the Mavs playbook btw LOL! Other plays from last year are Corner double, 12 option, and baseline double all making a return. Once again there is very little flex, motion, and cutters. No UCLA action for the Nets, flex for the Pacers, etc. Hardly any horns passes are made at all and the play immediately go's to the 2nd option if there is one. At least they could have kept the names the same so we could just copy and paste over my work from last year to at least get us started...

The classic teams can be edited thank GOD! They only have 17-20 plays within their play books and they are not even close to accurate for their teams. Another cool thing is we can add the good classic plays to regular teams. They added NO new play types and still have those all messed up and distributed wrong from the players I looked at.

On a positive note there is 1 zone play called 2-3 killer. Bad news, there is only 1 zone play in the whole game.

I cant even tell you how this effects gameplay! Once again this will be a major project to fix. Its extremely frustrating as i was told I would be extremely impressed with the changes and it was hidden from us on team up day. I now know why! I was also told each play had options to it. Not really seeing that.

On a side note I do like the freelance spacing and the spacing on PNR. That is extremely improved!

Anyways, thats the end of my rant!

[Tomba]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

Van my man I cant tell you how much i miss your wondeful playbooks from nba 2k12 after playing a few game of nba 2k13

I just dont miss the inputting

Oh i've been through talking with developers Some actually believe what they say is true

[Eaglerock562]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

Vann,

Looks like the coaches will have to work their magic and edit this game inside and out to achieve what we all want...simply a game that we don't have to edit lol.

I am sure I am not the only one that can't wait to see what magic you got up your sleeve this year and if you need a hand hit me up and let me know. We don't start practice til the first of November.

[Permatron]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

Looking forward on what you got this year. Got the eyes of the entire community on you now lol. Shouldn't have made those playbooks for 2K12 so well haha. Can't wait to check em out. Appreciate this time consuming project from ya.

[slimm44]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

Vann, are you planning on making the necessary playbook edits this year and, if so, are you going to post them in a blog again? If you are going to edit them, I am definitely going to put them in my roster. They were awesome last year.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

To reply quickly to the guys from the other thread on main page that got closed. It was way to late into development to make any changes to suggestions I had for play books. I wasn't expecting that to happen. I am hoping these ideas make it into 14 though. Czar had said these plays are done very early in development.

I need to dive into these more. I just don't understand it. It's like editing rosters, the impact on gameplay is HUGE! I hope they get some people in this year EARLY in the development so some of the great ideas and suggestions have a chance for 14.

Knowing myself and my OCD I will not be able to play the game knowing these are such a mess so I will most likely dive into this project once again. Patience though as I have a new baby daughter constantly distracting me! Lol! I'll shoot for a rough draft by opening day. Remember, I will need to watch a lot of pre season games for teams like the nets, lakers, etc to see their new offenses and how they play with all the new additions. For someone who asked about lakers and Princeton offense the answer is a no. Czar had told me the other day it was not in as again this needs to be in apparently very early in development as well...

[youALREADYknow]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

SMH. It took a full month last year just to test and get rid of the broken plays, not to mention the time to get rid of plays that were just poorly designed or out of place.

I can't say I'm surprised though since every single piece of footage pre-release was "NBA Street 2K13". If they don't advertise it before the game drops, then it's either the same, removed, or soon to be broken.

Good luck man! The whole game seems to be designed around freelancing now so it will be interesting to see if their set play designs even play/look better than a very well configured freelance.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

SMH. It took a full month last year just to test and get rid of the broken plays, not to mention the time to get rid of plays that were just poorly designed or out of place.

I can't say I'm surprised though since every single piece of footage pre-release was "NBA Street 2K13". If they don't advertise it before the game drops, then it's either the same, removed, or soon to be broken.

Good luck man! The whole game seems to be designed around freelancing now so it will be interesting to see if their set play designs even play/look better than a very well configured freelance.

Yea, Im not going to say they are broken plays like last year. There are definitely poorly designed plays though. Some take to long as well just like last year. What frustrates me the most is teams not having their real life plays. Not to say there are not a few mixed in there that they do run, but its teams like the Nets, 76ers, Pacers, Lakers, etc who's offenses just are not represented well in the game. Your right the most time consuming thing was testing every play which sucks because as you go through a few of them they are the same plays as last year just with different names. Don't get me wrong there are new plays mixed in as well.

The Pick N Fades seemed to be improved! No bigs running to the 3 point line so far. :-) I agree about the freelancing. They did a great job IMO with spacing and the PNR spacing. Im hoping 14 gets some of the ideas we wanted for 13. They have the notes. I'd like to see more attention to teams running what they run IRL though. Oh well...

[slimm44]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

To reply quickly to the guys from the other thread on main page that got closed. It was way to late into development to make any changes to suggestions I had for play books. I wasn't expecting that to happen. I am hoping these ideas make it into 14 though. Czar had said these plays are done very early in development.

I need to dive into these more. I just don't understand it. It's like editing rosters, the impact on gameplay is HUGE! I hope they get some people in this year EARLY in the development so some of the great ideas and suggestions have a chance for 14.

Knowing myself and my OCD I will not be able to play the game knowing these are such a mess so I will most likely dive into this project once again. Patience though as I have a new baby daughter constantly distracting me! Lol! I'll shoot for a rough draft by opening day. Remember, I will need to watch a lot of pre season games for teams like the nets, lakers, etc to see their new offenses and how they play with all the new additions. For someone who asked about lakers and Princeton offense the answer is a no. Czar had told me the other day it was not in as again this needs to be in apparently very early in development as well...

As soon as the members were announced, I said in that thread that it would be better to be open to input/criticism/feedback from the community starting at the beginning of the cycle. I didn't say that as a knock on anybody that went, including yourself, but said it because it felt like 2k was A. generating a generic buzz by including the community members or B. taking user feedback WAY too late in the development cycle.

There is enough chatter by members who obviously know what they are talking about that, if 2K started listening NOW, they would be able to implement a lot of new ideas into 2k14 without creating the excitement and let down that we feel now.

As it is, this is probably going to be the last year that I buy a 2k game and will definitely be the last year I edit rosters. I spent more time editing last year than playing and I will not do that again. There is absolutely no reason that the ratings/tendencies/hotspots/hotspots/playbooks/coaching profiles/sig moves aren't accurate out of the box, even according to the scales that 2k themselves use. However, it happened again.

That being said, I can't wait to get my hands on a copy. Just with the freelance situations being improved and it appearing that they picked up the pace a little bit, it will make a more realistic representation of the sport this year.

[mango_prom]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

I don't think feedback is an issue. The self-alley exploit for example is something 2k is most likely aware of because, well, they put the move in the game, so they know the physics, they know defenders are simply pushed aside by an unstoppable animation.
It was programmed that way.

The same with playbooks. It was designed that way because nobody cares except for some sim heads. If sales would suffer, they would improve it for sure. Most people don't even know what plays are if you look at online gameplay.

Now I wouldn't even need perfect playbooks for every team down to the detail of synergy scouting or stuff like that.
But at least give us some solid framework to begin with.

Maybe something like play packages for different systems like Princeton, Flex, Motion which could then be broken down into play types resulting from these systems.
I think instead of hundreds of semi-decent plays, 2k should focus on quality instead.

[aloncho11]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

Perhaps 2K will implement the "promised" changes with their first roster update when the season begins or is that too wishful?

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

Whats frustrating to me is when something is added to the game and shows so much promise and then it either gets taken away from us or nothing is done to it the following year. I think we all expect progress from year to year in all areas. I don't expect perfection, but I do expect progress especially when the community is so vocal about these glaring issues so early in a development cycle.

[mango_prom]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

They would react if sales would suffer. People who complain about playbooks and tendencies most likely still buy the game every year.
If the game on the other hand is too complex for some 15 years old Heat fanboy, he will not buy it next year.
So it's frustrating, but simply business in my opinion.

They could've used one of the great community rosters and your playbooks for further improving the game and I'm sure there would be many guys willing to contribute for free.

[ffaacc03]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

I agree Vann, the logic says they should go the improvements route ... building upon things that were good but could be much better ... not taking away things ...

Cant understand how, if as others say is true, they didnt do anything to improve the presentation of the plays in the ingame to make it more user firendly ...

Cant understand how they havent give us more playbooks that ressemble the teams style of play ...

Cant understand how they take away the prospect of having multiple sliders for different approaches (cpu vs cpu ... HUM vs HUM ... etc) ...

Cant understand how they limit and withdraw options that serve us to fit the experience into our own unique view of how the NBA is /should be represented ... like not being able to freely edit SS ...

And if it comes to a last resource stance of 2k devs being forced to choose one feature over the other, they should at least consult some of the community members in order to get to know our priorities and to get a grasp not only on what is wanted, but on what is needed ... before going the cut route.

Here is to hope that for 2k14 or for the future 2k games within the new generation of consoles, that they dont take away things but rather improve and expand upon them.


Sorry for the extense, semi off topic words, but am a little bit mad about it ... having said that, am looking forward to get my hands on the game sometime this week and mostly, looking forward to read/see any updates along the way of you releasing your playbook edits.

[vtcrb]

Re: 2k13 Playbooks

I agree Vann, the logic says they should go the improvements route ... building upon things that were good but could be much better ... not taking away things ...

Cant understand how, if as others say is true, they didnt do anything to improve the presentation of the plays in the ingame to make it more user firendly ...

Cant understand how they havent give us more playbooks that ressemble the teams style of play ...

Cant understand how they take away the prospect of having multiple sliders for different approaches (cpu vs cpu ... HUM vs HUM ... etc) ...

Cant understand how they limit and withdraw options that serve us to fit the experience into our own unique view of how the NBA is /should be represented ... like not being able to freely edit SS ...

And if it comes to a last resource stance of 2k devs being forced to choose one feature over the other, they should at least consult some of the community members in order to get to know their priorities and to get a grasp not only on what is wanted, but on what is needed ... before going the cut route.

Here is to hope that for 2k14 or for the future 2k games within the new generation of consoles, that they dont take away things but rather improve and expand upon them.


Sorry for the extense, semi off topic words, but am a little bit mad about it ... having said that, am looking forward to get my hands on the game sometime this week and mostly, looking forward to read/see any updates along the way of you releasing your playbook edits.

I am VERY disappointed Playbooks werent addressed. From what I have read/talked to people(Wont have the game UNTIL later tonight), it seems that MORE work was put into Presentation, signing Celebrities(Bieber,Jersey Shore,etc), Harlem Globtrotters(heard there is a CODE) than actually addressing the game. Jut find it Odd that if the Community was listened to the PLAYBOOKS would be something they fixed. I understand you said they did Playbooks Earlier in Development. I mean VAN you posted Blog on Feb.21. 2012, I think that gave PLENTY of time to address a MAJOR issue with the game.