Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

You are understanding perfectly and this would be the best way to do it, unfortunately M13 wasn't built to allow for position editing. This logic will have to be added into future Madden's.

Just for clarification, what I am proposing would make position editing, unnecessary. In M12, among other football games, if I edited a LB to a DE, their OVR and AWR rating changed accordingly. What I am proposing is that there are NO predetermined positions attached to players, those positions and the appropriate ratings, are assigned wherever they are placed on the depth chart and/or formation sub. So in the case of my Redskins, Brian Orakpo wouldn't be assigned a predetermined position in team management, it would just display his ratings, likely excluding AWR since that is a position based rating. His position would be wherever I choose to place him on the depth chart, with his AWR and OVR being assigned accordingly.

This in conjunction with a basic depth chart, with mass substitutions/1st-2nd-3rd strings, based on the offensive/defensive playbook AND formation subs being available in team management for specific playbook position assignment, would make position editing unnecessary.

[NateDogPack12]

Just for clarification, what I am proposing would make position editing, unnecessary. In M12, among other football games, if I edited a LB to a DE, their OVR and AWR rating changed accordingly. What I am proposing is that there are NO predetermined positions attached to players, those positions and the appropriate ratings, are assigned wherever they are placed on the depth chart and/or formation sub. So in the case of my Redskins, Brian Orakpo wouldn't be assigned a predetermined position in team management, it would just display his ratings, likely excluding AWR since that is a position based rating. His position would be wherever I choose to place him on the depth chart, with his AWR and OVR being assigned accordingly.

This in conjunction with a basic depth chart, with mass substitutions/1st-2nd-3rd strings, based on the offensive/defensive playbook AND formation subs being available in team management for specific playbook position assignment, would make position editing unnecessary.

How would you propose labeling guys for the draft? Wouldn't you have to label them to some capacity in the draft? I think removing position labels outright would create a nightmare for shaping the AI.

[nygiantsman]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

Hey everyone, I just read all 81 pages of this thread and joined the forum to discuss one issue that is driving me crazy and has not been properly addressed anywhere I have been looking.

"Your trade offer could not be submitted at this time. Please try again later."

•Fixed an issue where after declining a trade offer, you are no longer able to accept or decline another offer.

I reposted this point to head off anyone telling me "look at page one."

This has nothing to do with declining a trade offer, and everything to do with excessive trading in CCM.

Please do not respond telling me how this is not a problem for you because you do not trade often.

This is the SINGLE BIGGEST FLAW IN MADDEN 13 and I am surprised more people are not outraged by this, as IT MAKES CCM MODE UNPLAYABLE.

I spend the last three weeks building a franchise and now I CAN NO LONGER MAKE TRADES, even though I am only in year five of CCM.

This problem was not in previous versions of Madden, and not only do I want to know if this will be fixed with the 10/16 patch BUT WHY WAS THIS ADDED TO THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!

Which designer thought it would be cute to add that aggravating phone operator phrase for those of us who do lots of trading in the game to optimize the amount of good draft picks every year?

No seriously, I really want the name of who added such an unrealistic and game-breaking mechanic which makes CCM unplayable.

This is almost as bad as Madden 08 when the franchise would crash because some team's fullback got hurt and none were available in free agency.

I was thoroughly enjoying the new Madden even with all its flaws, but when this issue blindsided me preventing me from playing my franchise I was completely stunned.

Sure I can keep playing without trading players and draft picks, but that is a really big part of the game.

Still no clarification on this problem...has anyone found a fix to it. I have simmed with no luck. I have even wasted my time and called EA and had some guy walk me through deleting my game data. I didn't think it would work....and it didn't. Nobody seems to want to answer this question!

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

How would you propose labeling guys for the draft? Wouldn't you have to label them to some capacity in the draft? I think removing position labels outright would create a nightmare for shaping the AI.

I think we all need to step outside the POV of what has always been done before and come at this from a clean slate. All the usual AI checks and balances to decide what players to place at what position should still be there "under the hood". However, Users wouldn't be beholden to following those same guidelines and decide to manually utilize players wherever they choose.

As far as for drafted players, those draft "labels" could simply entail the position they played in college but still not set a predetermined position requirement for the NFL, emulating real life. Just because a player was a QB in college, does NOT mean a NFL team will draft that player to play QB for them.

[NateDogPack12]

I think we all need to step outside the POV of what has always been done before and come at this from a clean slate. All the usual AI checks and balances to decide what players to place at what position should still be there "under the hood". However, Users wouldn't be beholden to following those same guidelines and decide to manually utilize players wherever they choose.

As far as for drafted players, those draft "labels" could simply entail the position they played in college but still not set a predetermined position requirement for the NFL, emulating real life. Just because a player was a QB in college, does NOT mean a NFL team will draft that player to play QB for them.

I like your idea about incorporating the depth chart, I was just under the impression the "checks and balances" utilized by the AI were in fact the position labels.

For organizational purposes, I don't think you'll be able to eliminate position labels completely but as it pertains to editing players and XP I think you're on to something.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

I like your idea about incorporating the depth chart, I was just under the impression the "checks and balances" utilized by the AI were in fact the position labels.

For organizational purposes, I don't think you'll be able to eliminate position labels completely but as it pertains to editing players and XP I think you're on to something.

I think you still are misunderstanding what I am suggesting. Ok, in M13, a User controlling one team can't see the OVR rating for players on another team. However, even though the User can not see those OVRs for CPU controlled teams, they are still there and the AI can use them. Removing the labeling of positions would not have to mean the removal of the AI assigning an applicable OVR to determine where the player best fits on that team.

In fact, I argue that removing the predetermined positions would level the playing field for the AI to place players at the best position on the depth chart, like Users could do previously with positional editing. So again, removing predetermined positions in team management BUT still allowing OVR ratings based on a players position on the depth chart, would essentially allow both Users and CPU teams the freedom to field the best team, on paper.

That said, there would need to be some adjustment to the AI depth chart management so, for example, LBs aren't playing DE on every team but I think the premise for this method is solid.

[jfsolo]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

I think you still are misunderstanding what I am suggesting. Ok, in M13, a User controlling one team can't see the OVR rating for players on another team. However, even though the User can not see those OVRs for CPU controlled teams, they are still there and the AI can use them. Removing the labeling of positions would not have to mean the removal of the AI assigning an applicable OVR to determine where the player best fits on that team.

In fact, I argue that removing the predetermined positions would level the playing field for the AI to place players at the best position on the depth chart, like Users could do with positional editing. So again, removing predetermined positions in team management BUT still allowing OVR ratings based on a players position on the depth chart, would essentially allow both Users and CPU teams the freedom to field the best team, on paper.

That said, there would need to be some adjustment to the AI depth chart management so, for example, LBs aren't playing DE on every team but I think the premise for this method is solid.

This is the key right here. The ability of the CPU teams to rigorously analyze players and draft, trade, release, place on the depth chart, sub, formation sub, etc. needs to be improved exponentially. This goes for Madden, NCAA, and other sports games like NBA 2K, and The Show as well. The programming for how this is done is still too rudimentary.

[NateDogPack12]

I think you still are misunderstanding what I am suggesting. Ok, in M13, a User controlling one team can't see the OVR rating for players on another team. However, even though the User can not see those OVRs for CPU controlled teams, they are still there and the AI can use them. Removing the labeling of positions would not have to mean the removal of the AI assigning an applicable OVR to determine where the player best fits on that team.

In fact, I argue that removing the predetermined positions would level the playing field for the AI to place players at the best position on the depth chart, like Users could do previously with positional editing. So again, removing predetermined positions in team management BUT still allowing OVR ratings based on a players position on the depth chart, would essentially allow both Users and CPU teams the freedom to field the best team, on paper.

That said, there would need to be some adjustment to the AI depth chart management so, for example, LBs aren't playing DE on every team but I think the premise for this method is solid.

Agreed. Perhaps what is technically possible via programming won't be a limitation to advancing CCM in a positive direction. I do think, for the most part, EA is on the right track with the mode.

[KBLover]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

How would you propose labeling guys for the draft? Wouldn't you have to label them to some capacity in the draft? I think removing position labels outright would create a nightmare for shaping the AI.

You could call them by what they "played in college". Like for the combine, some guys are wideouts or QBs or DBs.

But, even then, you wouldn't need to use positions labels on the players for the AI just like you can draft a WO, find out he can't catch, and maybe you try to teach him RB (maybe he can learn/has enough vision) or CB and make him a man corner (he understands routes, he understands a WR's mindset, he just can't catch the ball - perhaps he can grasp coverage techniques - otherwise, he's probably just not going to make it)

Consider an AI that uses position as a spot and set of responsibilities on the field. What's the responsibilities of a WR? Run good routes, catch the ball, block down field to some extent.

What skills are good for those things? RTE, RLS, JMP, CTH, CIT, SPC, RBF/S, AWR, SPD, AGI, ACC. Which of those you weight more heavily has to do with scheme and individual role (possession WR, deep threats, good blockers, physical WR, etc).

So when looking a player, be it the draft, a trade, FA pool, or its roster during the season, the AI can look at skills in relation to the scheme it wants to run and weight the players accordingly - a lot like a User would. There would be no need to worry that the AI would put a guy with 50 SPD and 40 CTH at WR. Likewise, a guy with 94 SPD and 50 RTE might not get listed high on the depth chart because another guy with 88 SPD and 88 RTE might be #1 or #2.

Same for other positions. A player who's a horrible block shedder isn't going to get a look at LB, but if he's strong and has good quickness, maybe a 4-3 DE (if he's got some pass rushing potential) or a "finesse" type DT (occupying blocks instead of breaking them becomes his role). If he's BIG and very strong, but perhaps not very quick, he might get a look at NT, etc.

I think this would apply to position switching. Would a User switch a DE that's big, strong, quicker-than-fast to an OLB, who needs to cover more ground and be somewhat comfortable in space? Probably not, and he probably wouldn't be effective in anything except run support. Drop back to pass and he's negated because he can't cover a man or function in zone and is not skilled a pass rushing - all things OLBs need to do.

It just seems that in sports games in general, positions are "easy ways out" instead of programming sports games like the sports actually work - based on player skills, which indicate how they should be best used. It's "easier" to force a player to be a "LB" and then give him weaker "LB skills" so he's a marginal starter than to make a player that's non-descript in general, but better than a scrub so you put him where he does the least damage to your overall scheme, as you look/hope for an upgrade or further development.

[PopsTexas2Step]

I talked with EA this morning and confirmed that the October 16th patch will include Franchise Mode to play with multiple teams in any given season (offline) and u can also use your custom roster in it... They have heard all the complaints from the "OLD HEADS" (30+ gamers) and they will add the option back.

I am so happy EA decided to grant the true gamers their wish. Thank you EA. Tuesday (October 16th) can't come fast enough. I brought Madden13 and refuse to play it till they patch up the "mess-ups" so i've been updating my Madden12 rosters and playing it. I am so excited!!!

Thanks again!!

BigCurt

[Jarodd21]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

I talked with EA this morning and confirmed that the October 16th patch will include Franchise Mode to play with multiple teams in any given season (offline) and u can also use your custom roster in it... They have heard all the complaints from the "OLD HEADS" (30+ gamers) and they will add the option back.

I am so happy EA decided to grant the true gamers their wish. Thank you EA. Tuesday (October 16th) can't come fast enough. I brought Madden13 and refuse to play it till they patch up the "mess-ups" so i've been updating my Madden12 rosters and playing it. I am so excited!!!

Thanks again!!

BigCurt

Why hasn't anyone else confirmed this? Emmdot has been on here all week and didn't mention this.. This would be great if they are patching this in but I have to see a link or something before I believe it..

[PopsTexas2Step]

Why hasn't anyone else confirmed this? Emmdot has been on here all week and didn't mention this.. This would be great if they are patching this in but I have to see a link or something before I believe it..

J, seriously, i was told by the EA Sports Rep.. i clearly asked them about offline season and multiple team use with custom roster. I called EA Sports @ 866-543-5435.

[PopsTexas2Step]

J, seriously, i was told by the EA Sports Rep.. i clearly asked them about offline season and multiple team use with custom roster. I called EA Sports @ 866-543-5435.

Thank you for contacting EA help (Case #05903046) - The follow-up email they sent me after I talked to them...

[ozzy57]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

You are understanding perfectly and this would be the best way to do it, unfortunately M13 wasn't built to allow for position editing. This logic will have to be added into future Madden's.

The problem I have with this is why talk about players who can play a LB or DE in the draft if we can't edit their position to that? It seems that if you had this in your game already as draft speech that it should have been built to allow for that. I do understand the problem with it is that some people could try and move a QB to S or something that doesn't happen but the trend in the NFL has been to move aging corners to a safety position and of course OLB's to DE's. There have been several cases where players move from QB to WR.

I have read some people saying they only have a 1 year build cycle but technically according to Josh they were working on this for 2 years. I truly feel the team dropped the ball on this years Madden so many problems for the "Future Franchise mode of ALL Sports Games"

[ozzy57]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

y

J, seriously, i was told by the EA Sports Rep.. i clearly asked them about offline season and multiple team use with custom roster. I called EA Sports @ 866-543-5435.

Not to say your wrong because I'm not but the demo was suppose to come out 1-2 weeks earlier according to an EA Sports Rep as well.

Since Emm hasn't said there would be 32 team control I'll assume there won't be and then if there is it can be a nice surprise.