Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

This is the key right here. The ability of the CPU teams to rigorously analyze players and draft, trade, release, place on the depth chart, sub, formation sub, etc. needs to be improved exponentially. This goes for Madden, NCAA, and other sports games like NBA 2K, and The Show as well. The programming for how this is done is still too rudimentary.

It just seems that in sports games in general, positions are "easy ways out" instead of programming sports games like the sports actually work - based on player skills, which indicate how they should be best used. It's "easier" to force a player to be a "LB" and then give him weaker "LB skills" so he's a marginal starter than to make a player that's non-descript in general, but better than a scrub so you put him where he does the least damage to your overall scheme, as you look/hope for an upgrade or further development.

This is exactly what I was getting at but KBLover went into far more detail. Team management should be about utilizing the best skill set at given positions, according to a teams scheme/strategy, not predetermined. The issue with just bringing back position editing is that it still does not address the AI/CPU teams making those decisions. Simply removing the predetermined positions makes it possible for all teams to assign what they believe are best players is at each position.

I think it would be sweet and realistic to see a CPU team like the Colts, take a QB in the 3rd round, then later see that player at WR on their depth chart. Also to Jfsolo's point, the Ai/CPU needs to be programmed to make those position assignments in formation subs, not just the depth chart. I don't feel this upgrade is even that difficult considering the Gamepalnning feature from M12. It seems simple enough to add the capability to do formation subs within Gameplanning so teams can utilize different personnel packages.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

The problem I have with this is why talk about players who can play a LB or DE in the draft if we can't edit their position to that? It seems that if you had this in your game already as draft speech that it should have been built to allow for that. I do understand the problem with it is that some people could try and move a QB to S or something that doesn't happen but the trend in the NFL has been to move aging corners to a safety position and of course OLB's to DE's. There have been several cases where players move from QB to WR.

I have read some people saying they only have a 1 year build cycle but technically according to Josh they were working on this for 2 years. I truly feel the team dropped the ball on this years Madden so many problems for the "Future Franchise mode of ALL Sports Games"

This the key right here for me because doing away with predetermined positions in team management would also mean having to make skill rating differential matter for more and the Infinity Engine account for physics entirely. If I decide to put Santana Moss on the OL then the animation system linked to ratings and the Infinity Engine should be capable of representing how poor he would perform at that position in the depth chart, given his inept skill set and physical stature as an OL.

I think all the general positions in the depth chart should have applicable animations to represent a range of technique/ability to perform that position. Even a LT should have different animations from a RT and the IE should account for the physics calculations.

[ozzy57]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

This the key right here for me because doing away with predetermined positions in team management would also mean having to make skill rating differential matter for more and the Infinity Engine account for physics entirely. If I decide to put Santana Moss on the OL then the animation system linked to ratings and the Infinity Engine should be capable of representing how poor he would perform at that position in the depth chart, given his inept skill set and physical stature as an OL.

I think all the general positions in the depth chart should have applicable animations to represent a range of technique/ability to perform that position. Even a LT should have different animations from a RT and the IE should account for the physics calculations.

This was directed at Emm about position changing in M13 but I'm glad it could help you make your point.

[adriano]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

Emdot.. I have heard that tuners would not be able to address
the problems in the game. When patch 3 drops, will tuners be
released periodically? Will the new patch be able to be tuned?
Are tuners not apart of the game anymore?

[gzenius]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

position changes should be easy, just limit each position to certain positions.. like fb/te, all o-line interchangeable or maybe just lt/rt and g/c.. cb/fs/ss..

i guess there would be a problem on defense because of de/olb.. de/dt should be interchangeable too but then people could get lbs at dt and have their front 7 all fast lbs.. maybe limit the position changes by their "base" position or something if thats possible.. if they could do that they could do qb to wr and maybe have some athletic qbs in draft classes that had really low throwing stats with storylines about how they might be better fit for wr and it's up to you to decide how to try and develop them.

[KBLover]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

If I decide to put Santana Moss on the OL then the animation system linked to ratings and the Infinity Engine should be capable of representing how poor he would perform at that position in the depth chart, given his inept skill set and physical stature as an OL.

Or just have his lowish RBS/F or PBS/F completely suck against even a poor DL's BSH rating.

Not to mention factor in STR as at least a modifier and Moss won't stand a chance.

To me, the issue isn't animations, is success probabilities and ratings not having typical position ranges. If the ratings aren't going to be relative (which would actually be a GOOD use of the position label, a WR's STR is less than a DT's STR, even if the actual rating is the same) then a WR needs to have a max strength and blocking lower than any DL's STR and BSH in the game. As physical as a guy like Hines Ward was, he would not last on the OL.

[sublime7]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

hey EMMDOT, quick question: will the patch do anything to change certain preexisting injuries? such as terrell suggs is listed for 30 weeks, making it impossible for him to play in the nov game that hes apparently scheduled to debut it.

also, when we be able to use a roster update on online ccm? cant find that anywhere. so sick of dennis pitta having to be a 68 in online ccm, when hes a 77 in the current rosters

i would turn off preexisting injuries but its so annoying having every teams injuries wiped out week to week

Seriously guys, no answer to any of this? Where you at, EMMDOT? help me out, youre my only hope.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

This the key right here for me because doing away with predetermined positions in team management would also mean having to make skill rating differential matter for more and the Infinity Engine account for physics entirely. If I decide to put Santana Moss on the OL then the animation system linked to ratings and the Infinity Engine should be capable of representing how poor he would perform at that position in the depth chart, given his inept skill set and physical stature as an OL.

I think all the general positions in the depth chart should have applicable animations to represent a range of technique/ability to perform that position. Even a LT should have different animations from a RT and the IE should account for the physics calculations.

So true. EA uses a player's position to account for far too much. We've seen some of those videos that show a 150 pound LT successfully pass block a 300 pound Pro Bowl DE. That's ludicrous. I don't care how good his technique is, he's going to get steamrolled every time. Sheer weight and strength have to be factored in more. True global ratings by position would fix that ALONG with real physics. The Infinity Engine is not a physics engine right now - it's just a tackling system.

Awareness is the one attribute that may cause problems but the only position it really affects is QB. They should change the label to QB vision and drop awareness as a catch-all for every other position in the game. Some might think this is bad but why? Every other position in Madden has attributes that take care of it and make it unnecessary.

RB has ball carrier vision
WR/TE has route running
OL - doesn't have anything specific but other than adding a snapping rating to determine who can play center it's not necessary
DEF - they all have play recognition, pursuit ratings along with coverage, block shedding and tackle attributes. Why add awareness on top of those?

Madden needs to simplify the ratings and put more emphasis on physics. Instead we have a hard ratings based game that puts far too little emphasis on physics.

[shmity72]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

Changing Schemes in Connected Careers: Added the ability to change offensive and defensive schemes as a coach.

will this be retroactive?

sorry if it was addressed earlier.

[I_Tyler_Durden_I]

So true. EA uses a player's position to account for far too much. We've seen some of those videos that show a 150 pound LT successfully pass block a 300 pound Pro Bowl DE. That's ludicrous. I don't care how good his technique is, he's going to get steamrolled every time. Sheer weight and strength have to be factored in more. True global ratings by position would fix that ALONG with real physics. The Infinity Engine is not a physics engine right now - it's just a tackling system.

Awareness is the one attribute that may cause problems but the only position it really affects is QB. They should change the label to QB vision and drop awareness as a catch-all for every other position in the game. Some might think this is bad but why? Every other position in Madden has attributes that take care of it and make it unnecessary.

RB has ball carrier vision
WR/TE has route running
OL - doesn't have anything specific but other than adding a snapping rating to determine who can play center it's not necessary
DEF - they all have play recognition, pursuit ratings along with coverage, block shedding and tackle attributes. Why add awareness on top of those?

Couldn't agree more. It is so bad to watch your punter blocking a 300 lbs DT.
But OL needs something like AWR too. Blitz pick-up and finding the right guy to block is why. Also make the snapping rating important for long snaps and bad shotgun snaps.
I think EA should keep it easy as possible so they have a change to make it work.

[SickDL]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

Cant wait to start a ne ccm somewhere next week after the patch drops. Fingers crossed play calling and sliders are fixed the right way.
And i only have to worry about witch team im gonne use.

But from the patch details its all looking good. Atleast ea put a lot of affort in it.

[KBLover]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

So true. EA uses a player's position to account for far too much. We've seen some of those videos that show a 150 pound LT successfully pass block a 300 pound Pro Bowl DE. That's ludicrous. I don't care how good his technique is, he's going to get steamrolled every time. Sheer weight and strength have to be factored in more. True global ratings by position would fix that ALONG with real physics. The Infinity Engine is not a physics engine right now - it's just a tackling system.

Awareness is the one attribute that may cause problems but the only position it really affects is QB. They should change the label to QB vision and drop awareness as a catch-all for every other position in the game. Some might think this is bad but why? Every other position in Madden has attributes that take care of it and make it unnecessary.

RB has ball carrier vision
WR/TE has route running
OL - doesn't have anything specific but other than adding a snapping rating to determine who can play center it's not necessary
DEF - they all have play recognition, pursuit ratings along with coverage, block shedding and tackle attributes. Why add awareness on top of those?

Madden needs to simplify the ratings and put more emphasis on physics. Instead we have a hard ratings based game that puts far too little emphasis on physics.

To me, AWR could/should cover things like penalty avoidance, ball awareness, assignment recognition and when to adjust as the play is going on.

For example, on defense:

PRC = "I can diagnose the play as it's occurring"/"I can read the gaps and know where I need to fit"/"I saw that draw coming a mile away"
PUR = "I know how to cut off the ball carrier or set the edge"/"I can read the HB's eyes and head and know which hole he plans to hit"/"I hustle when I am behind the ball carrier and am eager to close for the tackle"
M/ZCV = "I am comfortable in pass and can read the QB's eyes"/"I can shadow my man, not fall for double moves, and stay with my man on cuts"
BSH = "I can break engagement quickly to get back into the play"
TAK = "I can wrap up ball carriers like a steal trap"/"I don't fall for fakes and jukes, and can break down to get myself ready to strike"
AWR = "I am aware of the ball in the air and how to play it at it's highest point"/"I am aware that I have safety help and need to stay in my zone"/"I am aware that I do NOT have deep safety help, and need to run with this man as he exits my zone"/"I don't commit many penalties, even when induced or losing on the play"/"I avoid things like roughing the passer or facemask."

That's how I envision all the defensive ratings. I think AWR still covers points of the game not handled by the other technique ratings.

On offense, I see AWR as handling things like running a route to get the first down. RTE = how sharp can I run the route. AWR = do I adjust the depth if the route normally takes me close to the sticks to pick up the marker or do I do what my 4th WR did in a game of M12 and run a 2 yd route on 3rd and 3 (do I know where I am on the field?). It could/should help recognition of space and making small adjustments, like sitting down in zones or finding a break down in the coverage when the QB is scrambling.

For the OL, AWR could/should handle communication, the accuracy and success of a C's calls, the ability of the linemen to stay in their stances if the QB goes through audibles, the ability to get a good fire off on the snap. Also it could determine if they hold when beaten or find a way to hinder the defender legally. Recognizing when/if passing a man is needed to pick up a blitz or when/if to give help on a protection. Also should help in recognizing blitzers pre-snap and adjusting if they don't recognize it (like in a less-than-4-man front that's not showing blitz or showing fake blitzers or when the zone blitz is used)

For a HB - as a receiver, it covers the same things as receivers. As a ball carrier, it could enhance the effectiveness of moves like cover the ball (which has no rating - and no I don't consider CAR as the rating - cover ball lowers chances of fumbling below what the CAR imparts). It could/should help in recognizing who to block in pass protection (AWR = "I need to help here", PBF = "I can get to where I'm needed", PBS = "I can hold up the defender when I get there")

[goatboyba00]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

I talked with EA this morning and confirmed that the October 16th patch will include Franchise Mode to play with multiple teams in any given season (offline) and u can also use your custom roster in it... They have heard all the complaints from the "OLD HEADS" (30+ gamers) and they will add the option back.

I am so happy EA decided to grant the true gamers their wish. Thank you EA. Tuesday (October 16th) can't come fast enough. I brought Madden13 and refuse to play it till they patch up the "mess-ups" so i've been updating my Madden12 rosters and playing it. I am so excited!!!

Thanks again!!

BigCurt

thats great did they say u can watch cpu vs cpu in offline ccm like madden 12 i hope u can

[TheBest]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

thats great did they say u can watch cpu vs cpu in offline ccm like madden 12 i hope u can

Jeez, I thought I was THE ONLY ONE that wanted this feature back. Forget coach mode, I want spectate mode. Hopefully what dude said is correct but with no mention from Emmdot, i'm very skeptical.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

KBLover - that list is impressive but I doubt we'll see all that in the game next year or even in five years. I still see the LE bug where they get the vast majority of sacks. Team tendencies aren't working in the game and I really fear EA did not fix that in this upcoming patch. I won't be holding my breath.