wr overalls

[blocknose]

Has anyone else noticed that if you have a wr under 65 ovr the computer will not cover him no matter how many times he has caught the ball during the year

[Old School SD Fan]

Re: wr overalls

Has anyone else noticed that if you have a wr under 65 ovr the computer will not cover him no matter how many times he has caught the ball during the year

Why in the world would I allow a 65 slug WR on my roster anyway? So of course, I wouldn't know.

[purplerat]

Re: wr overalls

I've never seen this to be the case and I've played some very lowly rated WRs as well as some completely out of position (i.e. offensive tackles) players at WR. The only explanation I can think of as to why you might see this happening is if you are playing a low rated WR as the 4th or 5th receiver and he's being covered by a LB.

Many low rated WRs are actually very effective if used correctly and just lack balance resulting in a low OVR rating. For if you have a guy with great speed, acceleration, release and/or spec catch but piss poor everything else he can still be a very effective deep threat even though his OVR is in the 60s.

[Arrow218]

Re: wr overalls

Why in the world would I allow a 65 slug WR on my roster anyway? So of course, I wouldn't know.

If he's 6'7 with 99 speed and acc and 80 catch but he has 5 awareness.

[DrDoctor]

Re: wr overalls

Why in the world would I allow a 65 slug WR on my roster anyway? So of course, I wouldn't know.

I find this mentality of putting so much stock in OVR hilarious. OVR means nothing.

I just won ROTY with a 66OVR WR in my online CCM. In fact, he was in the running for MVP. He had piss poor AWR, but great speed and elusiveness, and I was able to develop his catching skills to be solid over the course of the season. He was constantly able to get behind coverage and make big plays, despite being a "slug". :wink:

[purplerat]

Re: wr overalls

I find this mentality of putting so much stock in OVR hilarious. OVR means nothing.

I just won ROTY with a 66OVR WR in my online CCM. In fact, he was in the running for MVP. He had piss poor AWR, but great speed and elusiveness, and I was able to develop his catching skills to be solid over the course of the season. He was constantly able to get behind coverage and make big plays, despite being a "slug". :wink:

Exactly. In my Online CCM I broke every single game and single season receiving record with a sub-70 WR. Great speed and acceleration + high spec catch = lots of big plays.

[blocknose]

Re: wr overalls

exactly overall is a pointless rating that is used for beginners to make easy roster moves. I would say 50% of the overall is coming from the awareness rating. For wr this awareness will only effect if he choses the correct route for option routes.

[purplerat]

Re: wr overalls

exactly overall is a pointless rating that is used for beginners to make easy roster moves. I would say 50% of the overall is coming from the awareness rating. For wr this awareness will only effect if he choses the correct route for option routes.

At the same time I don't think the CPU is using overall to decide who to cover a WR with or whether to cover them at all.

[Old School SD Fan]

Re: wr overalls

I find this mentality of putting so much stock in OVR hilarious. OVR means nothing.

I am 100% convinced overalls have a significant effect on sim results so I disagree. They matter. Second, most low overalls stem from low AWR, EA's way of hiding gems in the database. Fortunately AWR is one of the cheapest attributes to pump up. In one season I took a 7th round 68 QB to an 81 by starting him and pumping his AWR all season long. The overall flew up as his AWR did. Now we all know when you control the QB AWR doesn't matter but it does if you sim, and is very much tied to the overall. We also know low AWR significantly affects performance of players you don't control.

[purplerat]

Re: wr overalls

I am 100% convinced overalls have a significant effect on sim results so I disagree. They matter. Second, most low overalls stem from low AWR, EA's way of hiding gems in the database. Fortunately AWR is one of the cheapest attributes to pump up. In one season I took a 7th round 68 QB to an 81 by starting him and pumping his AWR all season long. The overall flew up as his AWR did. Now we all know when you control the QB AWR doesn't matter but it does if you sim, and is very much tied to the overall. We also know low AWR significantly affects performance of players you don't control.

Why would EA rely on overall for sim results when they put a plethora of attributes to be used - many which ONLY would impact sims? Granted AWR is one of those attributes and because AWR so heavily influences OVR there is a stronger relationship between OVR and sim performance, but it's the awareness that is at play not overall.

[Dempseylicious23]

Re: wr overalls

Why would EA rely on overall for sim results when they put a plethora of attributes to be used - many which ONLY would impact sims? Granted AWR is one of those attributes and because AWR so heavily influences OVR there is a stronger relationship between OVR and sim performance, but it's the awareness that is at play not overall.

I'd wager it's more the OVR rating that impacts simulation results. It's hard to tell though since OVR is so heavily weighted by AWR, so it's difficult to really say which is the more important factor here.

I guess a way to check would be to get two WR's with the same OVR, one with high AWR and low physicals, one with high physicals and low AWR, and sim through a few seasons with both of them to see if there is any dramatic difference in their performance. That still might not really prove anything concrete though.

[purplerat]

Re: wr overalls

I'd wager it's more the OVR rating that impacts simulation results. It's hard to tell though since OVR is so heavily weighted by AWR, so it's difficult to really say which is the more important factor here.

I guess a way to check would be to get two WR's with the same OVR, one with high AWR and low physicals, one with high physicals and low AWR, and sim through a few seasons with both of them to see if there is any dramatic difference in their performance. That still might not really prove anything concrete though.

If OVR is what determined sim results then you would expect stats to be very consistent between similarly rated players. For example realistically a possession receiver and a deep threat receiver should have very different YPC but if sim is just relying on OVR then there shouldn't be much of a difference.

Yet when I've run entirely simmed seasons that's not the case. Wes Welker is amongst the highest in receptions but has much lower YPC than Devin Hester. Also there are plenty of lower overall guys in the top of the receiver rankings.

The same holds true across most other positions.

[Dempseylicious23]

Re: wr overalls

If OVR is what determined sim results then you would expect stats to be very consistent between similarly rated players. For example realistically a possession receiver and a deep threat receiver should have very different YPC but if sim is just relying on OVR then there shouldn't be much of a difference.

Yet when I've run entirely simmed seasons that's not the case. Wes Welker is amongst the highest in receptions but has much lower YPC than Devin Hester. Also there are plenty of lower overall guys in the top of the receiver rankings.

The same holds true across most other positions.

It would make sense logically when you consider all things in a vacuum. However, when you take into account things like the teams they are on, the systems those teams run, who is throwing them the ball, etc etc, those kind of direct comparisons are thrown out the window.

Look at Larry Fitzgerald this year. He's one of the best wide receivers in the NFL, but is having an incredibly poor year due to factors outside of his control.

The only way you could legitimately test this is to run two simultaneous sim seasons where the players you test are on the same team in the same position on the depth chart. That would be the most accurate way to garner any real results.

[purplerat]

Re: wr overalls

It would make sense logically when you consider all things in a vacuum. However, when you take into account things like the teams they are on, the systems those teams run, who is throwing them the ball, etc etc, those kind of direct comparisons are thrown out the window.

Look at Larry Fitzgerald this year. He's one of the best wide receivers in the NFL, but is having an incredibly poor year due to factors outside of his control.

The only way you could legitimately test this is to run two simultaneous sim seasons where the players you test are on the same team in the same position on the depth chart. That would be the most accurate way to garner any real results.

What you say is true yet it actually contradicts the idea that OVR ratings are used to decide outcomes in simmed games. In other for "all those other things" to be a factor (and I believe they are) the sim code must be considering "all those other things" in which case it would make no sense to rely on something as non-granular as OVR to factor heavily into outcomes. It would be like looking at every minuet detail of a car's design and performance only to decide to buy or not based on color.

Furthermore a stat like YPC should not be heavily influenced by anything other than that players ability, which is why I chose it.

[Dempseylicious23]

Re: wr overalls

What you say is true yet it actually contradicts the idea that OVR ratings are used to decide outcomes in simmed games...

...It would be like looking at every minuet detail of a car's design and performance only to decide to buy or not based on color.

Furthermore a stat like YPC should not be heavily influenced by anything other than that players ability, which is why I chose it.

It doesn't contradict that at all. What I'm saying is, while OVR may be the most highly contributing factor in determining simulation stats, it is not necessarily the only defining factor that determines simulation stats. Overall ratings are based on your schemes, player position types, and the player's skills themselves. There should be a difference if you play Wes Welker in the slot as a possession receiver than if you played him out wide all the time as a red zone threat in both actual play and OVR rating (which is reflected in your depth chart in the menus). One could assume that Welker would perform far better in the former situation. Having a player do what they are used to doing in a system optimally set for their skill set should see better results.

It's completely different than picking a car based on color. It's more like knowing that you want to buy a car for the purpose of racing it on a track, and picking one based on which has the best lap time at that track. Lap times don't tell you how much horsepower or what type of suspension the car has, but it does give you a general sense of how that car will perform in that environment.

Also, YPC can be heavily dictated by other factors, mainly, what routes are being run (which is dictated by the offensive coordinator or the QB at the line of scrimmage). Yards after the catch (YAC) and catch % would be more indicative of how much skill the receiver actually has.