Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

[ABR173rd]

EA Sports Designer, Clint Oldenburg has explained the strength rating for lineman in Madden, which includes a detailed look at how players strength ratings are determined and how gamers see it in-game.

For the linemen, STR is a match-up between a blocker and a defender who are engaged with each other. If the disparity is largely in the blocker's favor, he will be able to hold his block for a longer-than-average amount of time based on the size of the disparity (not every time). If the STR rating matchup is in favor of the defender, he will be able to disengage from the block much quicker than normal on average (again, not every time). And if the two players have similar STR ratings, you'll see varied results in wins and losses over the course of game, but neither will dominate in this one specific area.

Make sure you give it a read, plenty of good details inside.

Source - Madden Strength Rating for Linemen (SOTL)

[KingV2k3]

Re: Clint Oldenburg explains the "Strength" rating for offensivel linemen

Interesting read, but also underscores the fact that Madden continues to be "azz-backwards" where the OL / DL interaction is concerned...

The ratings crew treat the LT as the "blindside" for pass blockers and the right for run blockers / maulers...

The commentary also has lines where Simms mentions that teams run off the "power tackle" on the right and the pass blocker is on the left...

But the guys who are in charge of the gameplay have had the D's pass rush come from the D's left (opposite to RL) side forever...

The sacks are generated by the LDE / LOLB / LDT...which is backwards...in the current system, the D's pass rushers line up against the O's run side...

This year, they made some adjustments in the depth charts that moved some players into positions to reflect HOW THE GAMEPLAY ACTUALLY WORKS (or in this case, doesn't)...

But, it's still a mess...

Maybe instead of a STR blog, the ratings guys should look up the gameplay AND commentary guys (down the hall?) and FINALLY get all three on the same page where OL / DL interaction is concerned...

Just a thought...

[KBLover]

Re: Clint Oldenburg explains the "Strength" rating for offensivel linemen

For the linemen, STR is a match-up between a blocker and a defender who are engaged with each other. If the disparity is largely in the blocker's favor, he will be able to hold his block for a longer-than-average amount of time based on the size of the disparity (not every time). If the STR rating matchup is in favor of the defender, he will be able to disengage from the block much quicker than normal on average (again, not every time). And if the two players have similar STR ratings, you'll see varied results in wins and losses over the course of game, but neither will dominate in this one specific area.

So all it does is determine maintenance of the block, not the movement or push that a lineman can get...?

So a 99 STR LT vs a 30 STR DB is not going to push the DB around, just make it hard for the DB to get away?

STR certainly seems to impact pancakes...the top 2 pancakers on my OL are my monster of a LG (97 STR), and my equally menacing RG (95 STR). It's not even close. LG has 19, RG has 21. So if it's not STR that's doing it, what is?

And, yeah, King, the game play with the LT/RT is so backwards. It's insane. They have a guy who played and knows OL on staff and it's STILL backwards. Go figure, huh.

[D_Fos]

Re: Clint Oldenburg explains the "Strength" rating for offensivel linemen

Interesting read, but also underscores the fact that Madden continues to be "azz-backwards" where the OL / DL interaction is concerned...

The ratings crew treat the LT as the "blindside" for pass blockers and the right for run blockers / maulers...

The commentary also has lines where Simms mentions that teams run off the "power tackle" on the right and the pass blocker is on the left...

But the guys who are in charge of the gameplay have had the D's pass rush come from the D's left (opposite to RL) side forever...

The sacks are generated by the LDE / LOLB / LDT...which is backwards...in the current system, the D's pass rushers line up against the O's run side...

This year, they made some adjustments in the depth charts that moved some players into positions to reflect HOW THE GAMEPLAY ACTUALLY WORKS (or in this case, doesn't)...

But, it's still a mess...

Maybe instead of a STR blog, the ratings guys should look up the gameplay AND commentary guys (down the hall?) and FINALLY get all three on the same page where OL / DL interaction is concerned...

Just a thought...

Makes me wonder, if they tuned defense from a different viewing angle? The same type of camera views, just from the defensive 3rd person perspective.
IDK, just throwing out some idears...

[Bull_Dozer]

Awesome. Now just tell us exactly how the other ratings work please.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

Re: Clint Oldenburg explains the "Strength" rating for offensivel linemen

Interesting read, but also underscores the fact that Madden continues to be "azz-backwards" where the OL / DL interaction is concerned...

The ratings crew treat the LT as the "blindside" for pass blockers and the right for run blockers / maulers...

The commentary also has lines where Simms mentions that teams run off the "power tackle" on the right and the pass blocker is on the left...

But the guys who are in charge of the gameplay have had the D's pass rush come from the D's left (opposite to RL) side forever...

The sacks are generated by the LDE / LOLB / LDT...which is backwards...in the current system, the D's pass rushers line up against the O's run side...

This year, they made some adjustments in the depth charts that moved some players into positions to reflect HOW THE GAMEPLAY ACTUALLY WORKS (or in this case, doesn't)...

But, it's still a mess...

Maybe instead of a STR blog, the ratings guys should look up the gameplay AND commentary guys (down the hall?) and FINALLY get all three on the same page where OL / DL interaction is concerned...

Just a thought...

I understand what you are saying, but I am willing to bet this guy isn't the one making all these decisions, seeing as I have never heard of him. At this point, I grateful somebody over at the Empire is releasing some damn info about the inner workings of this game.

I'm rather excited to see if this becomes a sort of developer diary thing. Of course, developer diaries usually are more useful prior to the game shipping, but beggars can't be choosers, and right now, we are beggars.

Anybody want to create interest via and aggressive letter writing campaign?

[TheDelta]

Re: Clint Oldenburg explains the "Strength" rating for offensivel linemen

So I gotta ask, if the only thing STR determines is how long a block can be held, what the hell are R/PBK ratings for? I thought those were supposed to determine those kind of things...

[slick589]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

All maddens ratings have been and still are pointless.

Here is what matters. Speed and awareness.

Positional ratings mean nothing if awareness is low.
Speed kills in the NFL but in madden it can win you games no matter how bad a player is rated in positional attributes

A safety with 40 man and zone still balls out in madden if he has 99 speed
Also a saftey with 99 man and zone cant cover anyone if his awareness is 40.

Id really like them to do something new with the awareness rating. It should have no effect on positional ratings and should be used as a knowledge of the game rating. Ex knowing down and distance and what routes to expect, knowing where the sideline is.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

I must say that I disagree with how STR is measured and evaluated with EA currently. As you guys know for the FBG Ratings project I have brought in consultants in biomechanics from the University of Minnesota and statisticians from Texas A&M University for my project.

I was told from the guys at UM that strength is the overall capability of a player to exert maximum force during a single effort. The 1-rep-max is by far the best way to measure this for the 2 core lifts; bench press and back squat.

Power, on the other hand, is the ability to exert force at higher speeds in a vector. The core lift to measure power is the power clean.

Now, after reading this article, it seems to me that what they are referring to is not really static strength, but how static strength is APPLIED on the field. Isn't that what the BSH/RBS/PBS/TRK/SFA abilities are for? To tell us how well a player UTILIZES his strength ABILITY? That is...how well the player reaches his POTENTIAL for exerting maximum force?

What is so darn maddening about how EA does this is that I didn't have to pay thousands of dollars to get this information from experts in biomechanics! If I can do it, and find the experts in the field to give educated opinions, why can't EA!? I know why they brought Clint in, but he is not an expert in biomechanics and it seems to me that the guys at EA are clearly not defining their terms correctly, nor are utilizing them properly.

[KBLover]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Speed kills in the NFL but in madden it can win you games no matter how bad a player is rated in positional attributes

That never works for me. I've read it often, and have had no success. I'll get more out of slower WR with better hands and feet than the speed guys who can only run fast.

Jacoby Ford is trash for me and he's very quick and fast. Meanwhile, Marcel Reece as a TE is far more reliable with 7 less SPD.

Taiwan Jones is equally bad. Yet, Caulder, 8 points slower, is far better with only 70 AWR.

Fast WR with crap RTE and RLS don't get open fast enough. If their catch sucks, they'll drop what's thrown them (DHB literally dropped 57% of ball thrown at him before I had enough, and, yes, I tracked it).

[KBLover]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Now, after reading this article, it seems to me that what they are referring to is not really static strength, but how static strength is APPLIED on the field. Isn't that what the BSH/RBS/PBS/TRK/SFA abilities are for? To tell us how well a player UTILIZES his strength ABILITY? That is...how well the player reaches his POTENTIAL for exerting maximum force?

They are - but they are not measures of his actual raw power. I think that's what the game is trying to go for.

Take one of those body builder types - he'd probably have 99 STR. But could he block Jared Allen? That's what I would envision 99 STR, 12 PBK as being. He can pull an airplane, but has no skill and stopping a pass rusher, no base, no kick step, no ability to disrupt the rusher's balance, no ability to read the arc and adapt, etc.

I think what they tried for was a combo approach. Take good run blocking technique and assignment knowledge and combine it with that pull-an-airplane guy, and you have a monster run blocker. He has the strength (99 STR) and knows how to use it (99 RBK).

Someone who knows how to run block, but might be a WR, could have high RBK, but not as much raw power (lower STR). He'll probably be better with cut blocks and such.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I think that's the aim they were shooting for.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

I must say that I disagree with how STR is measured and evaluated with EA currently. As you guys know for the FBG Ratings project I have brought in consultants in biomechanics from the University of Minnesota and statisticians from Texas A&M University for my project.

I was told from the guys at UM that strength is the overall capability of a player to exert maximum force during a single effort. The 1-rep-max is by far the best way to measure this for the 2 core lifts; bench press and back squat.

Power, on the other hand, is the ability to exert force at higher speeds in a vector. The core lift to measure power is the power clean.

Now, after reading this article, it seems to me that what they are referring to is not really static strength, but how static strength is APPLIED on the field. Isn't that what the BSH/RBS/PBS/TRK/SFA abilities are for? To tell us how well a player UTILIZES his strength ABILITY? That is...how well the player reaches his POTENTIAL for exerting maximum force?

What is so darn maddening about how EA does this is that I didn't have to pay thousands of dollars to get this information from experts in biomechanics! If I can do it, and find the experts in the field to give educated opinions, why can't EA!? I know why they brought Clint in, but he is not an expert in biomechanics and it seems to me that the guys at EA are clearly not defining their terms correctly, nor are utilizing them properly.

But remember? This is somehow the "suits'" fault, not the incredibly inept developers working on this game. You know, kind of like how in season 3 of our CCM, we are now repeating the exact same schedule as in season 1.

I lost IQ points by reading that article.

[LBzrule]

Re: Clint Oldenburg explains the "Strength" rating for offensivel linemen

So all it does is determine maintenance of the block, not the movement or push that a lineman can get...?

So a 99 STR LT vs a 30 STR DB is not going to push the DB around, just make it hard for the DB to get away?

STR certainly seems to impact pancakes...the top 2 pancakers on my OL are my monster of a LG (97 STR), and my equally menacing RG (95 STR). It's not even close. LG has 19, RG has 21. So if it's not STR that's doing it, what is?

And, yeah, King, the game play with the LT/RT is so backwards. It's insane. They have a guy who played and knows OL on staff and it's STILL backwards. Go figure, huh.

Which IMO is dumb but that's why we see that mess in the game. I had a game the other night where a corner stood up an offensive tackle shed the block and made a play on Ray Rice in the backfield What governs pancakes? One would think it has to be impact block. But the Impact block was also in the high 90's and the DB still stood him up, got off the block and made a tackle in the backfield.

[LBzrule]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Also, what defensive ratings correspond to the offensive ratings to determine that that CB is going to get off the block and make a play in the back field?

Other questions:

In CC I purchase all of these traits for my linemen and linebackers. Spin move, swim move, bull rush, max out their consistency and I see no difference in their play whatsoever. Can't be strength for DL because Ngata has 99 strength and he isn't performing any moves.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Clint Oldenburg explains the "Strength" rating for offensivel linemen

Which IMO is dumb but that's why we see that mess in the game. I had a game the other night where a corner stood up an offensive tackle shed the block and made a play on Ray Rice in the backfield What governs pancakes? One would think it has to be impact block. But the Impact block was also in the high 90's and the DB still stood him up, got off the block and made a tackle in the backfield.

And this is the sort of common sense logic we have been complaining about for years.