2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

**bkrich83** · 01-05-2013, 02:28 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by seanjeezy

Those aren't metrics, those are cold hard facts. His success last year is directly attributed to his new found ability to throw hard and throw strikes, don't know how this is even remotely debatable. A reliever who can throw strikes with a mid 90's fastball and a wipeout breaking ball will be successful, pretty simple concept.

Actually metrics are exactly what those were. His ability to throw with more velocity is hardly new found.

It was 29 innings. And he's shown these flashes before dating back to his days in San Diego. As sports also said you can't fix his mental makeup.

What is it with Mariners fans? Last year it was they will win a WS in 2013 and Ackley would be a hands down All Star at 2b, and now this?

**kehlis** · 01-05-2013, 02:31 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by bkrich83

What is it with Mariners fans? Last year it was they will win a WS in 2013 and Ackley would be a hands down All Star at 2b, and now this?

I blame the Seahawks.

**bkrich83** · 01-05-2013, 02:33 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by kehlis

I blame the Seahawks.

I think it's all the poor weather.

**seanjeezy** · 01-05-2013, 02:36 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by Sportsforever

Not sure if serious...his previous 100+ innings he walked around 8 per 9 IP and now in a 29 inning sample you declare him fixed? Sure, maybe he's improved, but I need to see it over a much larger sample before I'd declare him 'fixed'.

Finally, even if he is fixed, I highly doubt his attitude had changed.

Pretty serious... You know (well I guess you don't since you are debating it) that his arsenal is nowhere near the same as it was 2+ years ago? The other big issue here is that he is now a reliever (why do I have the feeling this is being glossed over?), which means he is only throwing his two best pitches (well documented that his changeup was by far his worst pitch) and the increase in velocity allows him to pound the strike zone more than before. If you look at his f/x data from years past, his problem was the ability to throw his offspeed pitches for strikes, not his fastball.

If Daniel Bard can go from good reliever to terrible starter in 30 some innings, not sure why it is out of the realm of possibility for Oliver Perez to go from terrible starter to good reliever in the same time frame.

**Sportsforever** · 01-05-2013, 02:41 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by seanjeezy

Pretty serious... You know (well I guess you don't since you are debating it) that his arsenal is nowhere near the same as it was 2+ years ago? The other big issue here is that he is now a reliever (why do I have the feeling this is being glossed over?), which means he is only throwing his two best pitches (well documented that his changeup was by far his worst pitch) and the increase in velocity allows him to pound the strike zone more than before. If you look at his f/x data from years past, his problem was the ability to throw his offspeed pitches for strikes, not his fastball.

If Daniel Bard can go from good reliever to terrible starter in 30 some innings, not sure why it is out of the realm of possibility for Oliver Perez to go from terrible starter to good reliever in the same time frame.

Apples to Oranges with Bard/Perez. Last we saw Oliver Perez he was coming out of the Mets bullpen and getting rocked to the tune of an 1100+ OPS (not a typo). Yes, it too was a small sample size, but taken with his body of work from 2009 on I'd say it's obvious he isn't someone who can be counted on.

Now, it is very possible that he has adjusted and learned to pitch with diminished abilities. I'm not denying this...I'm just saying I need more than 29 IP to prove it for me.

**TripleCrown9** · 01-05-2013, 02:43 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Lance Berkman is officially a Ranger. Hopefully it doesn't come back to bite them later in the season.

**bkrich83** · 01-05-2013, 02:44 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by Sportsforever

Now, it is very possible that he has adjusted and learned to pitch with diminished abilities. I'm not denying this...I'm just saying I need more than 29 IP to prove it for me.

Agreed. I am pretty sure he didn't stop becoming a head case because he's coming out of the pen now as well.

**bkrich83** · 01-05-2013, 02:44 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by TripleCrown9

Lance Berkman is officially a Ranger. Hopefully it doesn't come back to bite them later in the season.

He fills a need for them. Probably a good sign.

**seanjeezy** · 01-05-2013, 02:54 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by Sportsforever

Apples to Oranges with Bard/Perez. Last we saw Oliver Perez he was coming out of the Mets bullpen and getting rocked to the tune of an 1100+ OPS (not a typo). Yes, it too was a small sample size, but taken with his body of work from 2009 on I'd say it's obvious he isn't someone who can be counted on.

Now, it is very possible that he has adjusted and learned to pitch with diminished abilities. I'm not denying this...I'm just saying I need more than 29 IP to prove it for me.

See this is what I'm not understanding... How are his abilities diminished when his fastball velo increased ~6 mph and he threw 11% more strikes? When he was relieving for the Mets his fastball topped out around 89 mph and he threw 57% strikes, and he was obviously terrible.

Now if his fastball reverts back to its pre-2012 self and his strike % plummets, color me concerned. However, if his velo holds, he still has a chance to be effective, even if his BB/9 regresses somewhat. His O-zone swing % was at a career high this year, mainly due to the improvement in his stuff, so even if he's not throwing in the strike zone, batters were chasing his pitches more than ever.

**bkrich83** · 01-05-2013, 03:01 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by seanjeezy

See this is what I'm not understanding... How are his abilities diminished when his fastball velo increased ~6 mph and he threw 11% more strikes? When he was relieving for the Mets his fastball topped out around 89 mph and he threw 57% strikes, and he was obviously terrible.

Now if his fastball reverts back to its pre-2012 self and his strike % plummets, color me concerned. However, if his velo holds, he still has a chance to be effective, even if his BB/9 regresses somewhat. His O-zone swing % was at a career high this year, mainly due to the improvement in his stuff, so even if he's not throwing in the strike zone, batters were chasing his pitches more than ever.

Are you the guy who last year guaranteed a Mariner WS this year? Declared Ackley the best 2b in baseball? Promised Felix would NEVER leave? And promised a dynasty in Seattle?

**seanjeezy** · 01-05-2013, 03:06 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by bkrich83

Are you the guy who last year guaranteed a Mariner WS this year? Declared Ackley the best 2b in baseball? Promised Felix would NEVER leave? And promised a dynasty in Seattle?

Lol how is saying Oliver Perez was a good reliever last year even in the same realm as those statements? Only an idiot would go out of their way to say those things

Edit:

So I'm still not sure how this argument came about... Is it a stuff issue? Him being a headcase? His velocity was great last year and when a team has a surplus of hard throwing relievers and multiple lefties, he doesn't get a chance to implode. Heck, I doubt he even throws over 40 innings next year, he's the 5th option out of the Mariners' pen.

**Baseballking888** · 01-05-2013, 03:27 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Good shrewd business by Texas this offseason. Missed on Greinke and Hamilton, but their eventual contracts were not worth matching. They've picked up some good pieces and gotten rid of bad ones and have potential with the players they got. Berkman has never truly been utilized as a strict DH, and I think this will help him health wise to return to form.

AC · 01-05-2013, 03:39 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by bkrich83

Are you the guy who last year guaranteed a Mariner WS this year? Declared Ackley the best 2b in baseball? Promised Felix would NEVER leave? And promised a dynasty in Seattle?

I'm not sure about those last two, but TheNumber35's signature has that guy promising a Mariners WS in the next 3 years. It wasn't Seanjeezy, it was Brett the Jet Farve, I think.

**bkrich83** · 01-05-2013, 03:52 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by Baseballking888

Good shrewd business by Texas this offseason. Missed on Greinke and Hamilton, but their eventual contracts were not worth matching. They've picked up some good pieces and gotten rid of bad ones and have potential with the players they got. Berkman has never truly been utilized as a strict DH, and I think this will help him health wise to return to form.

Agreed. Rangers have been smart with their money I see this as a no lose situation.

**bkrich83** · 01-05-2013, 03:54 PM

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Originally posted by ACMilan99

I'm not sure about those last two, but TheNumber35's signature has that guy promising a Mariners WS in the next 3 years. It wasn't Seanjeezy, it was Brett the Jet Farve, I think.

I think you're right. It's hard to keep track. We get this from Mariner fans every year. It's like FSU and their return to power annual posts.

At the end of the day, the Mariners are still the Mariners so I suppose it doesn't matter.

2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

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