2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

[seanjeezy]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

I think you're right. It's hard to keep track. We get this from Mariner fans every year. It's like FSU and their return to power annual posts.

At the end of the day, the Mariners are still the Mariners so I suppose it doesn't matter.

You mean stating a player had a good year and explaining why there's a good chance for him to have a similar season? The "diminished" stuff and headcase excuses don't really apply any more, for reasons stated above...

Look, no one is declaring Perez is the next Kimbrel or Chapman, I just refuse to believe he will revert to his old, terrible self given the uptick in velocity and new role in the pen. I wasn't declaring him fixed based on his ERA (never mentioned it til right now), more on his velo and strike throwing ability last year. Even if his BB/9 spikes to mid 4's, he still can be an effective reliever with his uptick in stuff and the role he will be used in.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

He fills a need for them. Probably a good sign.

Cruz would be a better DH especially since he is starting to have range issues. If the proposed contract is less than $5m with incentives all along the way I won't have too much issue with it, but I think a Murphy-Gentry-Martin outfield would have just as much production if not more.

[seanjeezy]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Cruz would be a better DH especially since he is starting to have range issues. If the proposed contract is less than $5m with incentives all along the way I won't have too much issue with it, but I think a Murphy-Gentry-Martin outfield would have just as much production if not more.

Agreed, I really think Martin should be given a chance to see what he can do over the course of a full season. Sucks that Nelson's arm would be going to waste though, but you can't fight age...

[Perfect Zero]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Per Rosenthal (via Lone Star Ball): Berkman deal 1year/$11million

[AC]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Per Rosenthal (via Lone Star Ball): Berkman deal 1year/$11million

If 1 WAR costed about 4.75 million this offseason then that's about fair value

[Perfect Zero]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

If 1 WAR costed about 4.75 million this offseason then that's about fair value

How much value is that though when he's stuck at DH? Look, if he can play like HGH Superman and dip right back into the fountain of youth it's a great signing. I just don't see that happening. At best, it's a Vladimir Guerrero signing which wasn't bad until the second half of 2010

[bkrich83]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Is that $11 million confirmed? I had heard on MLB radio all week it was going to be in the $5-6 million range.

Even so, Texas has money to burn, and it's a one year deal, so even if he tanks it's not crippling or even limiting to Texas from a roster flexibility standpoint.

[bkrich83]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

You mean stating a player had a good year and explaining why there's a good chance for him to have a similar season? The "diminished" stuff and headcase excuses don't really apply any more, for reasons stated above...

Look, no one is declaring Perez is the next Kimbrel or Chapman, I just refuse to believe he will revert to his old, terrible self given the uptick in velocity and new role in the pen. I wasn't declaring him fixed based on his ERA (never mentioned it til right now), more on his velo and strike throwing ability last year. Even if his BB/9 spikes to mid 4's, he still can be an effective reliever with his uptick in stuff and the role he will be used in.

No I mean overrating all things Mariner, mostly their players.

Why does the headcase stuff no longer count? Who mentioned ERA?

Doesn't matter though, the Mariners will still be the Mariners.

[Knight165]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Use CAUTION when depending on O.P.
He looks unbeatable......then he looks like he doesn't belong pitching batting practice in Little League games....then unbeatable...then back in Little League...
Just when you think you've got him pegged one way or the other......the flies in the other direction.

M.K.
Knight165

[AC]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

How much value is that though when he's stuck at DH? Look, if he can play like HGH Superman and dip right back into the fountain of youth it's a great signing. I just don't see that happening. At best, it's a Vladimir Guerrero signing which wasn't bad until the second half of 2010

Well, he managed to put up nearly a 5 WAR season at first two years ago, and was on pace for ~2 WAR at first last year. The value change between 1B and DH isn't really that huge, so I'm guessing it'll be decent.

[seanjeezy]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

No I mean overrating all things Mariner, mostly their players.

Who's overrating Mariners players? I thought it was a well known fact that the majority of our players haven't been very good, don't know who said otherwise. I guess it was unreasonable to expect a player who actually performed well last year to carry a similar level of production into next season, shame on me...

Why does the headcase stuff no longer count? Who mentioned ERA?

Because it will never get a chance to manifest. Do you honestly think Perez will be left in if he starts to implode? Like I said, he's the 5th/6th option out of the pen and would be replaced at the 1st sign of a breakdown. His role on the team is a middle reliever, no one is expecting him to be great (just serviceable), and he no longer has ridiculous expectations on his shoulders.

Doesn't matter though, the Mariners will still be the Mariners.

Well you got me there, unlike other M's fans I accept the fact that my team has been the laughingstock of the MLB for the majority of its existence, doesn't bother me one bit though.

[AC]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Well you got me there, unlike other M's fans I accept the fact that my team has been the laughingstock of the MLB for the majority of its existence, doesn't bother me one bit though.

Well that's a bit harsh, no? I mean, as it stands, you guys are bad, but certainly not laughingstocks. You guys at least have a bright-ish future, too.

[CameRoN0407]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Well you got me there, unlike other M's fans I accept the fact that my team has been the laughingstock of the MLB for the majority of its existence, doesn't bother me one bit though.

I got 1 word to try to make you feel better:

Astros...

[seanjeezy]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Well that's a bit harsh, no? I mean, as it stands, you guys are bad, but certainly not laughingstocks. You guys at least have a bright-ish future, too.

Unfortunately the Mariners have been horrendously bad except for the following years:

1991
1993
1995-1997
2000-2003
2007
2009

In the team's 36 year existence, they've had 11 winning seasons, and the losing seasons have been downright ugly. Fortunately I have only experienced 1990-2012, I can't imagine how older Mariners fans feel about the org (I have a feeling it ain't good lol).

[AC]

Re: 2012-13 Hot Stove League Thread

Unfortunately the Mariners have been horrendously bad except for the following years:

1991
1993
1995-1997
2000-2003
2007
2009

In the team's 36 year existence, they've had 11 winning seasons, and the losing seasons have been downright ugly. Fortunately I have only experienced 1990-2012, I can't imagine how older Mariners fans feel about the org (I have a feeling it ain't good lol).

Maybe because I'm a Blue Jays fan, I'm more lenient to a losing history.

You guys have had some stellar players like Junior, Randy Johnson, Edgar Martinez, Ichiro, The King, etc, so it's a little easier to take.