Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

[at23steelers]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Do these people even play the games?? Why is there a quick challenge button, which is the same as the commit button on D? This game doesn't seem well thought out at all. It seems like they throw it together without much testing.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

@ ROd, I hope you are not missing the pt on penalties by being focused on the game being prolonged albeit that is in fact a short sighted issue. Penalties are enforced to enforce discipline. A lack of discipline and attention to detail will cause your team to incur more penalties. Penalties are there for you to respect the rules. It is a eisk reward battle. I will allude to the aggressive vs conservative playcalling strategies in ncaa and how they bare risk reward consequences in penalties ans abilities. The game cant be partial in its respect to rules. In reality, there is a bulk of responsibility a team / user can control w/in penalties - its part of your coaching philoSophy and i dont think we need to go at length on that virtue or art of war.

By thinking rules need to be controlled and toned down is moreso the adopted mindset of babysitting that Ea does. We dont need a baby monitor. We need the rules enforced appropriately so as to have an opponent adjust appropriately, period

To look at the realistic rate of penalties in the nfl with apprehension in a video game is not rational. This is a blind reading into how penalties are generated. We/I am not requesting penalties to be randomized just to satisfy and appease the NFL numbers - no. The penalties need to be generated appropriately though and a user has within his control to play up to his team's awareness and discipline using his own discretion for aggressive and conservative tendencies. The more aggressive you play the more you run the risk of fatigue and failure. That's the risk reward spectrum that is an instrumental facet of any game or battle.

In a war, if you sail or take flight there are variable forces you have to be careful of. In the same light, there need to be variable penalty forces that give the game structure that ensure a player always proceed with a measure of caution and if he does not then he runs the risk of plundering his plans. But most people who proceed like this often don't have plans anyways - which is like the general population of online gamers who cheese to win or use refined exploits such as the 2 man under that LB was speaking on.

In example: the more you audible and fake hike at the line the more you should be exposed to the risk of a false start being committed. That is all.. that is within user control. The more you play aggressive tight coverage upfield themore you run the risk of a pass interference. The more you aggressive user catch the more you run the risk of pass interference. That's all.. no need to look at this approach with apprehnsion that that game will be prolonged - you're diminishing user thought and control with this mindset.

[roadman]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

@ ROd, I hope you are not missing the pt on penalties by being focused on the game bwibgbpeolonged albeit that is in fact a short sighted issue. Penalties arw wnforced to enfoece discipline. A lack of diacipline and attention to detail will cause yoyr team to incur more penalties. Penalties are there for you to respect thw rules. It is a eisk reward battle. I will allude to the agg vs cons playcalling stratts in ncaa andbhow they bare risk reward consequences in penalties ans abilities. The game cant be partial in its respect to rules. In reality, there is a bulk of responaibility a team / user can control win penalties - ita part of your coaching philoSophy and i dont think we need to go at lwngrh on that virtue or aet of war. By thinking rules newd to be controlled and toned down is morwso the adopted minsaetof babysitting that ea does. We dont need a baby monitor. We need the rulea enfoeced appropriaptely so as to have an opponent adjust appropriately, period

I get the your message, but it's difficult to read and sort through.

And based on your edits, my main point was to relay what a developers thoughts were a few years ago on the subject of making sure penalties work within the confine of the sliders and game itself.

I don't share those same sentiments.

[KBLover]

Re: Clint Oldenburg explains the "Strength" rating for offensivel linemen

Impact blocking?

Nope - my RG, who led the team, has 87 IBL - nothing "special". That's the same as Wisniewski and Otah, and basically Veldheer (85).

[KBLover]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

You can also forget about the matchup issues. If a linebacker is on a WR, he'll cover him step for step. Total nonsense.

I keep reading this.

Yet, if I put Rolando McClain on a WR, the WR is so open it's stupid. Tevin Ash and his 25 MCV is like...what zip code are you in, Tevin? The WR is <--------------that way.

Heck, McClain can't cover a TE that well most of the time. The only LB I have that can is a draftee with 85 MCV - and he's going to get left behind by a WR (not enough SPD and AGI unless the WR has trash RTE).

I have TRIED to do this intentionally just so I can see it - but it never works. Just like people say SPD is all you need at WR. Yet, as the Raiders, Ford is crap (when he's not hurt), DHB I traded ASAP (and laughed as he dropped like 10 passes in the three games I faced Denver, who got him somehow). If the "SPD only" paradigm worked, the Raiders would be the perfect team - yet, I have slower...and better... WR. Moore is the only one I have that's strong - and he has much more than SPD going for him.

Is this another issue mainly about online?

[KBLover]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

I would use Alex Smith in Madden 11 an 12 and if I wanted to throw an out route to the left sideline, I had better press the L-Stick to the RIGHT otherwise the ball would sail wide out of bounds. To me, that was disgusting. I would drop back and try to hit a wide open 15 yard post and miss wildly. At the NFL level, even Tebow isn't that bad. In my opinion, the L-Stick passing is there to aim a pass, to lead it and throw your guy open when you need to... and when you have the QB who can make such a throw. In the NFL, rarely do you see a pass and think "Who was that thrown to?" Passes are deflected, dropped, just out of reach, tipped at the line and thrown away on a scramble.

Completely agree. Only way I want to use the L-stick. Throwing a guy open or placing the ball away from the defenders coming in/sitting in the window.

QB accuracy sliders and real life QB accuracy/awareness has been an interesting topic to me for a while. With my current settings, I can do amazing with star QBs, do well with average QBs, and struggle with bums. I started a franchise for fun wita friend and Tom Brady [he was the pats] was lost for 4 weeks and then Ryan Mallet was lost for 7 weeks in the pre-season. So, he signed David Gerrard. I tried to play as Gerrard and it was abysmal. Just no consistency with the throws what so ever, and lots of drops. I think the throwing accuracy and "throws tight spiral" has an impact on the catch percentage as well. I saw a lot of drops from players who would catch the same passes from Tom.

It does. Terrelle Pryor this year for me was the same way. He'd get so many drops, but then he gets hurt - I pick up McCoy on the urging of some of the folks reading my dynasty - and suddenly, I can hit short passes. McCoy's SAC is a few points higher (82 vs 77) but I think it is that Tight Spiral (Pryor: No, McCoy: Yes) that made the difference.

I notice McCoy is also smarter about placing the ball even if I don't use the L-stick. Wonder if that's an impact of "Force Passes"? He'll throw OOB near a WR if he's covered as well. Pryor would try to gun it in there.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Thanks Road - I revised the post.

@ KB, aren't you using your own tailored set to get the results you're getting? That would make your findings arbitrary since it's not the default all 50/50 online matchmaking setup which is what LBz was telling you about: that you have not faced that fire so you wouldn't know what it's like to be burned Onilne with their all 50 set and how finicky it can be.

I think we all know the potential of the game within the slider modifications that can be made there. At ground level though that is where we want to see immediate changes - I think that's the main gripe we're expressing within this thread is how the game is packaged by default. By default we should essentialy get a professional football game that simulates what occurs in real life, authentically and respectfully.

[KBLover]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Thanks Road - I revised the post.

@ KB, aren't you using your own tailored set to get the results you're getting? That would make your findings arbitrary since it's not the default all 50/50 online matchmaking setup which is what LBz was telling you about: that you have not faced that fire so you wouldn't know what it's like to be burned Onilne with their all 50 set and how finicky it can be.

I think we all know the potential of the game within the slider modifications that can be made there. At ground level though that is where we want to see immediate changes - I think that's the main gripe we're expressing within this thread is how the game is packaged by default. By default we should essentialy get a professional football game that simulates what occurs in real life, authentically and respectfully.

I'm still working within the confines of the game's poor programming. It's less that even a decent mod job on a PC game, imo, where you could do some reprogramming, write some AI scripts, etc.

I agree that out of the box, stuff should work like real football. I just don't think all of what's there is completely useless. Needs heavy editing, yes, but I don't necessarily think the whole paper should be burned and re-written. Wouldn't shed a tear if it was - I'd be eager to see the new concepts, but I won't shed a tear if it isn't. Only if it's the same paper with no meaningful editing done.

But, I get it. I'll just go back to my corner and keep quiet.

[Phobia]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

I keep reading this.

Yet, if I put Rolando McClain on a WR, the WR is so open it's stupid. Tevin Ash and his 25 MCV is like...what zip code are you in, Tevin? The WR is <--------------that way.

Heck, McClain can't cover a TE that well most of the time. The only LB I have that can is a draftee with 85 MCV - and he's going to get left behind by a WR (not enough SPD and AGI unless the WR has trash RTE).

I have TRIED to do this intentionally just so I can see it - but it never works. Just like people say SPD is all you need at WR. Yet, as the Raiders, Ford is crap (when he's not hurt), DHB I traded ASAP (and laughed as he dropped like 10 passes in the three games I faced Denver, who got him somehow). If the "SPD only" paradigm worked, the Raiders would be the perfect team - yet, I have slower...and better... WR. Moore is the only one I have that's strong - and he has much more than SPD going for him.

Is this another issue mainly about online?

KB I want to show you a video I did last year for Madden 12. Now I have seen this very same thing this year in Madden 13 and I can make a video if need be. The reason for this and why Linebackers can cover WRs at times is they are not penalized to change directions with a foot plant. They at times will just turn 90 degrees and follow the WR full speed. Yet the WR is forced to plant his foot and change direction.

So the problem came from the defenders not being forced to use the same animations as the WRs

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a4kNuTpegjc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[huskerwr38]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Phobs and Husker;

I feel it's not the developers/designers you need to send your message, it's getting in the ear of marketing and the suits above.

Developers/designers have all the ideas in the world and then, along comes the marketing and managerial higher-ups that put a kibosh on those ideas and "glam" it up.

I understand that is part of it, but why is FIFA such a great game that is more substance than glam? EA is capable of producing a good sports game, but I'm not sure EA Tiburon is.

[roadman]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Maybe there isn't as many layers with EA Canada?

[KingV2k3]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Thanks Road - I revised the post.

@ KB, aren't you using your own tailored set to get the results you're getting? That would make your findings arbitrary since it's not the default all 50/50 online matchmaking setup which is what LBz was telling you about: that you have not faced that fire so you wouldn't know what it's like to be burned Onilne with their all 50 set and how finicky it can be.

I think we all know the potential of the game within the slider modifications that can be made there. At ground level though that is where we want to see immediate changes - I think that's the main gripe we're expressing within this thread is how the game is packaged by default. By default we should essentialy get a professional football game that simulates what occurs in real life, authentically and respectfully.

I think it's important to mention that, as "superior" titles like NBA 2k and The Show are to this game, they still BOTH require massive roster and gameplay edits as well as serious slider "tweak-age" to get humming along sim style...

Maybe FIFA is a different case, but ALL the titles I play(ed) (Madden / NCAA / NBA2k / The Show / CHoops / MVP Baseball / Etc) needed some TLC...

Maybe not as much as the title we are discussing, and maybe to a more satisfying end result...

But still...

I'm still working within the confines of the game's poor programming. It's less that even a decent mod job on a PC game, imo, where you could do some reprogramming, write some AI scripts, etc.

I agree that out of the box, stuff should work like real football. I just don't think all of what's there is completely useless. Needs heavy editing, yes, but I don't necessarily think the whole paper should be burned and re-written. Wouldn't shed a tear if it was - I'd be eager to see the new concepts, but I won't shed a tear if it isn't. Only if it's the same paper with no meaningful editing done.

But, I get it. I'll just go back to my corner and keep quiet.

As I have stated time and again, I have no problem with "solving the puzzle" that is Madden in the process of beating some decent football out of it...

In fact, that's a major part of my enjoyment with this title...

I understand that is part of it, but why is FIFA such a great game that is more substance than glam? EA is capable of producing a good sports game, but I'm not sure EA Tiburon is.

I wonder if the "Governing Body" that supervises FIFAs involvement with EA makes them less "nervous and jerky" than "The Shield" does?

[ABR173rd]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

For anyone who was interested in a follow up to this article, this was just posted a couple hours ago in regards to future attribute blogs by Clint.


"I know there's been a big following of my STR rating blog so I want to give an update for upcoming information. I will not be writing another piece until we get closer to launch. Initially this sounds like bad news, but it's actually very exciting. We are in the process of making an official series of presentations to promote Madden 14 as the release approaches. Hopefully the last piece I put out was enough to wet your whistle in anticipation of more in-depth ratings discussions in the coming months. So stay tuned and keep posting the stuff you want to know about. I will use your feedback and answer your questions when the time is right! If its in the game!"

So basically EA has now taken something that should either be included in an instruction booklet or within the game itself and turned it into a promotional item for Madden 14.....

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

I sense your "glee" in that last stanza ^ :=)

Wait till ya'll see my ratings analysis on Madden. This man who is blogging is still part of the maddness. It's the system that's full of madness and until the system gets fixed - I don't give a damn to know what your convoluted crap shoot spits out in theory, Olden...

[Phobia]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

For anyone who was interested in a follow up to this article, this was just posted a couple hours ago in regards to future attribute blogs by Clint.


"I know there's been a big following of my STR rating blog so I want to give an update for upcoming information. I will not be writing another piece until we get closer to launch. Initially this sounds like bad news, but it's actually very exciting. We are in the process of making an official series of presentations to promote Madden 14 as the release approaches. Hopefully the last piece I put out was enough to wet your whistle in anticipation of more in-depth ratings discussions in the coming months. So stay tuned and keep posting the stuff you want to know about. I will use your feedback and answer your questions when the time is right! If its in the game!"

So basically EA has now taken something that should either be included in an instruction booklet or within the game itself and turned it into a promotional item for Madden 14.....

This is how I feel about this. So close to scoring and doing something good, instead they throw it away and look stupid doing it